Rings of Power

OhioBobcatFan06

Well-known member
They did not show any loyalty. He pledged allegiance to save his bacon. He made this clear before he left town. They showed only him doing for himself. This is the "casual fan," take, which is who the post was directed to. They did not show his "master" bid him to flood the town. They didn't even show him steal the key and sneak back and why would he flood the town knowing his "master" would be in direct danger? They didn't show that. They didn't show him have ANY reason for going back to the tower.



Who "they?" I remember now the line about them digging the tunnels. I'll have to rewatch that bit to see what I missed. As of now, they did not show why this creates anything other than steam. The point of OBC's post. It is not clear to me the importance of Morder, why this created it r why this action created it. hell, I don't even know what Mordor is. Just a city for the "bad guys?" Why does it have to be steamy and firey?


They showed him created when the leaf hits the heat. They did not show him snoozing then get goned on the head by a leaf.
Have you watched the last episode? They literally spell it out... even if it wasn't clear before, now I think it is. Which to me is a good plot. Keep people guessing then give them awnsers
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Have you watched the last episode? They literally spell it out... even if it wasn't clear before, now I think it is. Which to me is a good plot. Keep people guessing then give them awnsers
They should spell slower. Then tell me, what is the significance and how did they show it? Not what we know from the original movies, but from this one?

The only logical reason I could conclude based on what they showed is the old guy went back for self interest. Not for any "master." He nearly killed Adar with the flood, knowingly. He stated he thought Adar was Sauron (though I was thinking the old guy himself was).

He already knew that thing was more than a sword or he wouldn't have used it as a key. He knew it would steam up the volcano. They have not shown WHY he needed this, hence they have not shown the significance of Mordor. They only showed the beginning of its creation as far as I can tell.
 

PantherProud

Well-known member
They should spell slower. Then tell me, what is the significance and how did they show it? Not what we know from the original movies, but from this one?

The only logical reason I could conclude based on what they showed is the old guy went back for self interest. Not for any "master." He nearly killed Adar with the flood, knowingly. He stated he thought Adar was Sauron (though I was thinking the old guy himself was).

He already knew that thing was more than a sword or he wouldn't have used it as a key. He knew it would steam up the volcano. They have not shown WHY he needed this, hence they have not shown the significance of Mordor. They only showed the beginning of its creation as far as I can tell.


just to be clear, you know Adar gave the Old Guy the sword to have him cause the flood, right?
 

OhioBobcatFan06

Well-known member
They should spell slower. Then tell me, what is the significance and how did they show it? Not what we know from the original movies, but from this one?

The only logical reason I could conclude based on what they showed is the old guy went back for self interest. Not for any "master." He nearly killed Adar with the flood, knowingly. He stated he thought Adar was Sauron (though I was thinking the old guy himself was).

He already knew that thing was more than a sword or he wouldn't have used it as a key. He knew it would steam up the volcano. They have not shown WHY he needed this, hence they have not shown the significance of Mordor. They only showed the beginning of its creation as far as I can tell.
In the last scene, they LITERALLY spell out Mordor on the screen.

I'd agree they haven't shown the significance of Mordor, but anyone who watched the LOTR movies let alone read the books knows what Mordor is. If you haven't watched those movies, great, watch this series then go watch the movies. I'd love that perspective on it
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
In the last scene, they LITERALLY spell out Mordor on the screen.

I'd agree they haven't shown the significance of Mordor, but anyone who watched the LOTR movies let alone read the books knows what Mordor is. If you haven't watched those movies, great, watch this series then go watch the movies. I'd love that perspective on it
Yes, they literally spell out Mordor. They did not literally spell out the "significance" of Mordor, which is what you posted and I opined I don't think so, certainly not to the "casual" fan. On rewatch I may be able to fill in my "plot-holes" as to how old-guy got up there and what his motivations are or I may just find confirmation it hasn't been yet told or was just poor story-telling.

It's such a slog to rewatch though. Other than the elf-dwarf comedy team and the cute little girl hobbits to be, which almost anyone can make charming, there's been little personality.

But it has been well lit. Except for those fire scenes. Impossible for me to see who it was under that house. Was that Isuderp? I thought he was supposed to be the one to cut the ring off the finger? All these names run together on me. Watching HotD at the same time isn't helping. I'm waiting for cousin dwarfs to get hot and bothered.
 

Crusaders

Moderator
Mordor was created by Morgoth before the first age and was pretty much always Sauron’s land from the middle or late first age on. There was no Southlands or anything that took place in this area

Setting aside the disregarded lore, the entire conception of how Mordor came to be and how it came to be called Mordor is absolutely laughable

Also everyone should be dead after being swallowed up by volcanic ash

This is quickly becoming one of the worst shows ever written lol

As for the target audience, I have no idea who this is for (other than the writers who you can practically see clapping themselves on the back for their self-perceived greatness).

Is it for the movie watchers? No, or else they wouldn’t have disregarded Galadriel’s husband Celeborn, who we see in The Two Towers. They wouldn’t try to create a cliffhanger out of Isildur possibly being dead at like age 18, you know the guy who in the end cuts the ring off Sauron’s hand.

While it’s really bad writing to be meta about story knowledge, you also have to be aware of your audience and not insult their intelligence

Is it for book readers? Absolutely not.

They’ve started production on season 2 but aren’t committing to a release until like 2024 or 2025. That tells me that this thing has been an absolute bomb and a large amount of changes are likely, if the show survives at all
 
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ogealbhain

Well-known member
Mordor was created by Morgoth before the first age and was pretty much always Sauron’s land from the middle or late first age on. There was no Southlands or anything that took place in this area

Setting aside the disregarded lore, the entire conception of how Mordor came to be and how it came to be called Mordor is absolutely laughable

Also everyone should be dead after being swallowed up by volcanic ash

This is quickly becoming one of the worst shows ever written lol

As for the target audience, I have no idea who this is for (other than the writers who you can practically see clapping themselves on the back for their self-perceived greatness).

Is it for the movie watchers? No, or else they wouldn’t have disregarded Galadriel’s husband Celeborn, who we see in The Two Towers. They wouldn’t try to create a cliffhanger out of Isildur possibly being dead at like age 18, you know the guy who in the end cuts the ring off Sauron’s hand.

While it’s really bad writing to be meta about story knowledge, you also have to be aware of your audience and not insult their intelligence

Is it for book readers? Absolutely not.

They’ve started production on season 2 but aren’t committing to a release until like 2024 or 2025. That tells me that this thing has been an absolute bomb and a large amount of changes are likely, if the show survives at all

I'd be curious to know what someone who knows nothing about the books thinks? While I don't consider myself a Tolkien "purist", it is hard to stomach how disconnected all of it is from Tolkien.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
I'd be curious to know what someone who knows nothing about the books thinks? While I don't consider myself a Tolkien "purist", it is hard to stomach how disconnected all of it is from Tolkien.
I read the books in high school a long time ago. Even all these years later there are parts that still stick with me. But I'm not a Tolkien purest and thought the Special Editions of the movie trilogy captured the books as well as they could be.

Since ROP is based primarily on appendices and encyclopedia like descriptions of Tolkien's world I think there is greater latitude on how this story could be told. I get the quest for purity in the productions of The Hobbit & LOTR Trilogy, as they were full fledged books that demanded a high level of fidelity. But this is a new story arising from a very different source material then Tolkien's classic work.

I think the material used as the foundation for ROP is by it's nature inferior to Tolkien's books. As such it's open to broader interpretations and doesn't require nearly as much adherence to the specifics of Tolkien's world. For me the question is whether the series captures Tolkien's sense of wonder, spectacle and the deeply moral conflict between good & evil. So far it has done so admirably.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
I'd be curious to know what someone who knows nothing about the books thinks? While I don't consider myself a Tolkien "purist", it is hard to stomach how disconnected all of it is from Tolkien.
Never read the books or the comics. Don't name myself after hobbits or the genre. Have no idea the source material. I think I truly qualify as not a purist.

I wouldn't even know to consider if it is disconnected from "Tolkien," if not for the complaints registered here. Most of my reading I did based on those complaints, Tolkien's history. His influences. I lean towards the view the complainers have other agendas. The issue with the series is the lack of content. The slow pace. The tropish story-telling. It isn't so much WHAT is being displayed as HOW it is displayed.

From my POV they had one job. Move that casual observer, the one that doesn't know "Tolkien" beyond the original movies, closer to the opening dialogue of the first movie. Keep it dense as they've done in HotD so that it does require rewatch and discussion in order to follow. Keep the attention with pretty adventures of curious and diverse cultures.

I think it was time for more of an origin show. Either pre-history or the battle referenced in the opening dialogues of episode one. In the trilogy, Sauron was ephemeral, a concept. The diversity was accepted. Maybe filling in some of those holes would have given this series a bit more purpose. As is, they skimmed that, slowed the pace with characters lacking charm, they had not vested the watchers in, before getting to something that resembles a conflict the casual fan knows about.

I would have wanted them to start either sooner in history, where Sauron first became big bad or have gotten to this recent episode quicker then spent more of season one on the conflict.
 

PantherProud

Well-known member
Loved the finale, and bummed that we've got a wait for Season 2.



Lots of things happen in this episode, won't get into spoilers for now.
 

Crusaders

Moderator
Not sure what was so great about the finale? Everything about what went down in the episode was against the established story and was poorly written.

Celebrimbor is apparently an idiot, not one of the greatest Elves and smiths alive.

Why is Halbrand Sauron? Tolkien has Sauron running around as Annatar at this point in the story - Sauron takes the form of a fair and wise Elf to deceive them. The idea Celebrimbor would trust some random human, let alone take impromptu smithing lessons from him, is absurd.

Galadriel doesn't fall for Sauron, or anything implied here, she's one of the few Elves who didn't trust him in the slightest and was constantly warning people about him.

One thing that's lost in this story because of the shtye writing is how powerful the old Elves like Galadriel , Gil Galad, Celebrimbor actually are. They lived amongst gods in Valinor for millennia before coming to Middle Earth. They have knowledge, powers, and skills that are so far beyond younger Elves, let alone humans, that they're only slightly overpowered by Wizards, who are themselves minor gods. Elves are not just immortal human-like people with pointy ears.

I guess it's fine to kneecap more male characters, giving Ar-Pharazon and Elendil's importance to a completely made up character who has no business being treated importantly.

"Interesting" that they chose to depict the Easterling Sauron cult as white when Easterlings are canonically "swarthy".

Seems like they couldn't help themselves but to include Gandalf, just not be name (yet), even though he doesn't exist until after the Second Age.

If I were to bet, I'd put money on everyone involved with this show being canned at Amazon. If there is a season 2, we won't see it for several years.
 
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PantherProud

Well-known member
"Season one opens with: Who is Galadriel? Where did she come from? What did she suffer? Why is she driven? We’re doing the same thing with Sauron in season two. We’ll fill in all the missing pieces."
"Sauron can now just be Sauron,"
McKay adds. "Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil. We felt like if we did that in season one, he’d overshadow everything else. So the first season is like Batman Begins, and the The Dark Knight is the next movie, with Sauron manoeuvring out in the open. We’re really excited."
"Season two has a canonical story. There may well be viewers who are like, 'This is the story we were hoping to get in season one!' In season two, we’re giving it to them."


 
This show has no business being associated with JRR Tolkien. On moral grounds, it pushes shallow, immature modernist philosophy and ideas of power and society, a complete affront to his Catholic faith.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
What I find interesting about this show is that I'm on more equal footing with most of the people watching it. I watched the LOTR movies but just casually. Didn't know the characters or the storyline. Enjoyed the movies but forgot about them almost as soon as I left the theater. Just didn't have enough interest to delve into them deeply. Never read the books either.

With this show, it appears that the story isn't following a book or a story that most people know. Yes, they have future characters that everyone seems to know but it is not necessary for the casual viewer like me. My only "gotcha moment" is when the stranger crash landed. Said right away that was Gandalf. Looks like I was right. Also assumed the Harfoots were the future Hobbits.

That is why I have enjoyed this show more than the movies. Sitting at the movies was like being the one outsider when a bunch of inside jokes were being told.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
What I find interesting about this show is that I'm on more equal footing with most of the people watching it. I watched the LOTR movies but just casually. Didn't know the characters or the storyline. Enjoyed the movies but forgot about them almost as soon as I left the theater. Just didn't have enough interest to delve into them deeply. Never read the books either.

With this show, it appears that the story isn't following a book or a story that most people know. Yes, they have future characters that everyone seems to know but it is not necessary for the casual viewer like me. My only "gotcha moment" is when the stranger crash landed. Said right away that was Gandalf. Looks like I was right. Also assumed the Harfoots were the future Hobbits.

That is why I have enjoyed this show more than the movies. Sitting at the movies was like being the one outsider when a bunch of inside jokes were being told.

I didn't really feel left out on the movies but it did take a few rewatches to feel I was getting the whole picture. I never got any cult feelings like some here seem to believe Tolkien was. It was just an adventure series. Not a whole lot of deep meaning to take from it. Same here with this tv series but FOR ME, slow, boring and a lead that had the charisma of the taupe crayon.

The writing was just... bad. Trope filled as I've said. Fake deaths. Red herrings. Just in times. One or two coincidences drive any life but not the whole damn thing.

I had Sauron down to the old guy or hadriel by the last three eps. They left a good clue I hadn't caught, hadriel being a smithy and having been cast out. I'd like to know who his raft mates were though and I couldn't figure out why the two likely candidates were both in the line of fire of the flood and volcanoe bombs. Meteor man, they're definitely leading on to be Gandolf but this writing is so trope filled, I'd put my bets with red herring and it's Salumon or no one.

I still don't get the significance of Mordor to Sauron. I get it as a home for Aruks that don't like light. And I don't know who this morgoth was mentioned in the first episode's dialouge, relation to Sauron, why the elves are so or where the hell the story is going to find nine humans for rings and do we have to sit through it. I suppose I could cheat and google. Or maybe I'll give season 2 a chance
 
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