IUDOGS: 2022 Division IV Top Twenty Five

IUDOGS

Well-known member
It's June 17, 2022

IUDOGS: 2022 Division IV Top Twenty Five
Regions: 13, 14, 15, 16

01. Cincinnati Wyoming

02. Clark Clinton - Massie

03. Van Vert

04. Columbus Bishop Hartley

05. Beloit West Branch

06. Cleveland Glenville

07. Steubenville

08. Belleuve

09. Cincinnati Archbishop McNicholas

10. St Clairsville

11. Eaton

12. Millersport West Holmes

13. Cincinnati Taft

14. Youngstown Ursuline

15. St Bernard Roger Bacon

16. Gnadenhutton Indian Valley

17. St Mary's Memorial

18. Shelby

19. Poland Seminary

20. Heath

21. Salem

22. Hubbard

23. Reading

24. Wauseon

25. Sandusky Perkins

What does YOURS 2022 Division IV Top Twenty Five look like???

:cool: :banana: :giggle: :) :unsure:

This is IUDOGS signing off.
 
Last edited:

305NoTomato

Active member
Steubenville dropping to one of the largest D4 schools puts them in great position. Perkins? I know they won some real big games against good programs last year, but with a great senior class. What’s the outlook on Perkins? I Would also give West Holmes a better rank. But I could be falling for the hype train on them.
 
Last edited:

Jguth83

Active member
Having WH that low is just bad. A team who went to state in division 3 and brought back the majority of their players. They also have a top 20 prospect in the state for 2024. Not a good list at all
 

Bless Em All

Always Watching...
I don’t see Wyoming being better than Clinton Massie, Steubenville or Taft. Ursuline is a huge program to defeat as well. Unless the Cowboys have some talent they are keeping quiet about. That’s a great program. Eaton from the SWBL should be tough this year.

my stab at this…
01. Ursuline

02. Clinton-Massie

03. Glenville

04. Taft

05. Cincinnati McNicholas

06. West Holmes

07. Steubenville

08. Hartley

09. West Branch

10. St Clairsville

11. Wyoming

12. Bellevue

13. Van Wert

14. Bloom Carroll

15. Perkins

16. Indian Valley

17. St Mary's Memorial

18. Shelby

19. Poland Seminary

20. Heath

21. Salem

22. Hubbard

23. Eaton

24. Roger Bacon

25. Wauseon
 
Last edited:

The Dock

Well-known member
I don’t see Wyoming being better than Clinton Massie, Steubenville or Taft. Ursuline is a huge program to defeat as well. Unless the Cowboys have some talent they are keeping quiet about. That’s a great program. Eaton from the SWBL should be tough this year.

my stab at this…
01. Ursuline

02. Clinton-Massie

03. Glenville

04. Taft

05. Cincinnati McNicholas

06. West Holmes

07. Steubenville

08. Hartley

09. West Branch

10. St Clairsville

11. Wyoming

12. Bellevue

13. Van Wert

14. Bloom Carroll

15. Perkins

16. Indian Valley

17. St Mary's Memorial

18. Shelby

19. Poland Seminary

20. Heath

21. Salem

22. Hubbard

23. Eaton

24. Roger Bacon

25. Wauseon
fwiw, Bloom-Carroll moved up to D3.
 

ColumbusCatholic

Active member
Hartley moving down to 4 is very interesting. Their enrollment hasn’t changed much but their competitive balance number has decreased by more than half in just 2-3 years time. Are they building their roster differently?
 

The Dock

Well-known member
Hartley moving down to 4 is very interesting. Their enrollment hasn’t changed much but their competitive balance number has decreased by more than half in just 2-3 years time. Are they building their roster differently?
I believe that the Diocese of Columbus provision helped cut their CB number down.

Can we reasonably presume that 39 (CB number) / 3 (Tier 2 factoring for football) = 13 kids from the public schools on the roster that were in grades 10-12?
 

RollRedBuckeye

Active member
Hard to believe Grenville is all the way down to DIV. Weren’t they DI not all that long ago?

I know that Big Red has roughly 18-20 seniors who have played a lot of football. I would not be shocked to see them in the final 4 when it’s all said and done.
 
I don’t see Wyoming being better than Clinton Massie, Steubenville or Taft. Ursuline is a huge program to defeat as well. Unless the Cowboys have some talent they are keeping quiet about. That’s a great program. Eaton from the SWBL should be tough this year.

my stab at this…
01. Ursuline

02. Clinton-Massie

03. Glenville

04. Taft

05. Cincinnati McNicholas

06. West Holmes

07. Steubenville

08. Hartley

09. West Branch

10. St Clairsville

11. Wyoming

12. Bellevue

13. Van Wert

14. Bloom Carroll

15. Perkins

16. Indian Valley

17. St Mary's Memorial

18. Shelby

19. Poland Seminary

20. Heath

21. Salem

22. Hubbard

23. Eaton

24. Roger Bacon

25. Wauseon
Hartley at 8 is hard to look at
Top 3 atleast
 

The Dock

Well-known member
Great job manipulating the CB number while the other CCL schools haven’t gone down near as much. Quite the magic trick
Isn’t the rule now that all of the kids from the Catholic schools within Hartley’s “zone” are Tier ‘0’?

Did SFD do their’s wrong, in light of the new rule? Their CB number is really high and I don’t see how they have ~20 kids from the public schools in grades 10-12 on their roster.

Also: how does Chucks’ have CB # 75?
 

The Dock

Well-known member
figured it out, maybe.

for BH -- 209 (current EMIS) / 252 (EMIS used last couple years) = 83%; which meant in some pattern or way Hartley managed to lose 17% boys enrollment year-over-year-over-year from the previous count... during COVID. huh.

If the number had only decreased by 8.5, that's 23 boys lost Y-o-Y-o-Y and not 43. 232 + CB of 39 = 271. 271 = D3, right above Alder at 270 (the smallest D3.)

The change in school leadership must have implemented a "pay, play or leave" policy toward its male students.
 

ColumbusCatholic

Active member
figured it out, maybe.

for BH -- 209 (current EMIS) / 252 (EMIS used last couple years) = 83%; which meant in some pattern or way Hartley managed to lose 17% boys enrollment year-over-year-over-year from the previous count... during COVID. huh.

If the number had only decreased by 8.5, that's 23 boys lost Y-o-Y-o-Y and not 43. 232 + CB of 39 = 271. 271 = D3, right above Alder at 270 (the smallest D3.)

The change in school leadership must have implemented a "pay, play or leave" policy toward its male students.
The female enrollment hasn’t plummeted like that….quite the phenomenon
 

The Dock

Well-known member
The female enrollment hasn’t plummeted like that….quite the phenomenon
It is interesting that Hartley has the smallest CB of all five Catholic schools in Franklin County.

In your opinion, do you think there is a “pay, play or leave” push at Zettler Rd?
 

ColumbusCatholic

Active member
It is interesting that Hartley has the smallest CB of all five Catholic schools in Franklin County.

In your opinion, do you think there is a “pay, play or leave” push at Zettler Rd?
I can almost guarantee their roster isn’t structured significantly different than before….not sure how they accomplished what they did.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
I can almost guarantee their roster isn’t structured significantly different than before….not sure how they accomplished what they did.
So, we both agree that the CB number seems amiss. We just disagree as to the direct why? Your inference is the roster composition isn’t different — mine is the skepticism that somehow they have less Tier ‘2’ kids than Watterson, while also curiosity as to if the changes in what has to be counted as what (Diocese of Columbus provision) caused the number to fall. I also don’t see how DeSales’ roster is somehow significantly different in Tier 2’s than Hartley’s but almost twice the number as such.

OHSAA’s EMIS number for Hartley (granted there’s a lag in what numbers were used for OHSAA purposes vis-a-vis last year versus this year) is quite lower than the previous one. That also raises an eyebrow, but there’s no way a school can really fabricate that since it runs through the ODE. What it does implicate is either the school genuinely ran through an anomalous downturn of boys’ enrollment, or if BH got more judicious about who is attending the school on voucher money versus the full-freight.

I’d also just ask that if there is indeed a serious questioning of BH’s CB number within the CCL, why doesn’t the four schools just run it through a central league administrator to make sure the math was done right before submission to OHSAA?
 

ColumbusCatholic

Active member
So, we both agree that the CB number seems amiss. We just disagree as to the direct why? Your inference is the roster composition isn’t different — mine is the skepticism that somehow they have less Tier ‘2’ kids than Watterson, while also curiosity as to if the changes in what has to be counted as what (Diocese of Columbus provision) caused the number to fall. I also don’t see how DeSales’ roster is somehow significantly different in Tier 2’s than Hartley’s but almost twice the number as such.

OHSAA’s EMIS number for Hartley (granted there’s a lag in what numbers were used for OHSAA purposes vis-a-vis last year versus this year) is quite lower than the previous one. That also raises an eyebrow, but there’s no way a school can really fabricate that since it runs through the ODE. What it does implicate is either the school genuinely ran through an anomalous downturn of boys’ enrollment, or if BH got more judicious about who is attending the school on voucher money versus the full-freight.

I’d also just ask that if there is indeed a serious questioning of BH’s CB number within the CCL, why doesn’t the four schools just run it through a central league administrator to make sure the math was done right before submission to OHSAA?
All great questions. I’m not going to pretend to know what’s going on over there but the coincidence of the CB plummeting and the overall boy’s enrollment dropping quite a bit while the girls enrollment remains steady makes for a good situation for them come playoff time. Works out nicely….maybe they can offer pointers to DeSales on how that works
 
If you follow Hartley's social media, they are pretty active. They post their players grade schools. They seem to be the majority of Catholic Grade School. If their CB is 39, thats 13 players out of a roster of what, 50? or 55. Hartley has bounced from D5-D3 in recent years. D4 seems right. Doesnt seem to be something sinister here.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
If you follow Hartley's social media, they are pretty active. They post their players grade schools. They seem to be the majority of Catholic Grade School. If their CB is 39, thats 13 players out of a roster of what, 50? or 55. Hartley has bounced from D5-D3 in recent years. D4 seems right. Doesnt seem to be something sinister here.
in other words, it’s the new exemption from OHSAA that has been brought up on this thread.
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
maybe they can offer pointers to DeSales on how that works
DeSales isn't doing anything wrong. Everyone is fighting to maintain enrollment. Their marketing has tilted heavily towards athletics since the 80's. It's a successful formula. There are dads of young teens spread all across Licking and Delaware county who think a drive to Karl Rd every day might be good for their children. They will learn hard work and self-discipline.
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
How did they have a 90+ CB adder just a couple years ago? I know the rules are different now but that’s hard to accomplish with just feeder school kids
Their designation was the Columbus-Walnut Ridge attendance zone which were All Saints and St Catherine, even though they get a lot of kids from bigger feeder schools like St Matthew and St Pius. They didn't choose a different zone. The rule stated "If a non-public member high school fails to choose a school district/attendance zone for its feeder school(s), the public school attendance zone in which the non-public school is physically located will be assigned by the OHSAA Office as that school’s selected attendance zone." It dropped to about 70 when they picked a smarter zone. And it dropped this year when all the kids from All Saints, St Catherine, St Matthew, St Pius, St Mary German Village, and Holy Spirit were counted as Tier Zero. Sorry, but there was no grand conspiracy.
 
.
Top