Democrats in Georgia show election issues.

I

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Happier said:
God Gawd you guys are embarrassingly stupid...

View attachment 30308
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Walked into that trap. Attack the source, attack this source.
news.yahoo.com

DeKalb County election workers finish hand count for District 2 primary

DeKalb County election workers were seen inputting data into county computers after hand counting ballots in the District 2 Commissioner primary race. Commissioner candidate Michelle Long Spears spoke out and said that the day after Georgia primary elections, her campaign discovered that she...
news.yahoo.com news.yahoo.com
 
H

Happier

Well-known member
I enjoy wrestling said:
Walked into that trap. Attack the source, attack this source.
news.yahoo.com

DeKalb County election workers finish hand count for District 2 primary

DeKalb County election workers were seen inputting data into county computers after hand counting ballots in the District 2 Commissioner primary race. Commissioner candidate Michelle Long Spears spoke out and said that the day after Georgia primary elections, her campaign discovered that she...
news.yahoo.com news.yahoo.com
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It is not a source. It is a NEWSMAX political activist. Must be getting nervous with the string of losses in Georgia.
 
MoeBiden

MoeBiden

Active member
I enjoy wrestling said:
Hit and run from these guys. Again, How is this possible with voting machines? Hmmmm
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According to the link to the full story from your first post:

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decaturish.com

Don Broussard dropped out of the race for the DeKalb Commission District 2 seat. That withdrawal caused a mistake in the programming of the precinct scanner and led to inaccurate vote counts for two candidates. The SOS office also said the text of one Republican Party question was not properly appearing during early voting, and five precincts in DeKalb were redistricted into the county commission District 2 race, but those precincts had not been updated to reflect that change.

Those issues resulted in the creation of new databases for the May 24 election. The databases map out ballot styles and precincts for voters.

Somebody really dropped the ball in quality assurance

In Ohio, polls are required to post results at certain points of the day the day at the polling locations, sounds like Georgia has the same kind of rules which is how this got caught by a candidate.
 
I

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MoeBiden said:
According to the link to the full story from your first post:

Loading…

decaturish.com

Don Broussard dropped out of the race for the DeKalb Commission District 2 seat. That withdrawal caused a mistake in the programming of the precinct scanner and led to inaccurate vote counts for two candidates. The SOS office also said the text of one Republican Party question was not properly appearing during early voting, and five precincts in DeKalb were redistricted into the county commission District 2 race, but those precincts had not been updated to reflect that change.

Those issues resulted in the creation of new databases for the May 24 election. The databases map out ballot styles and precincts for voters.

Somebody really dropped the ball in quality assurance

In Ohio, polls are required to post results at certain points of the day the day at the polling locations, sounds like Georgia has the same kind of rules which is how this got caught by a candidate.
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Programming? Quality assurance? So, someone writes code for these machines? I'm lost in how that would work. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would allow a programmer to assign a percentage to a vote. One candidate could be 95% of 1 and another could be 105% of 1.
 
MoeBiden

MoeBiden

Active member
I enjoy wrestling said:
Programming? Quality assurance? So, someone writes code for these machines? I'm lost in how that would work. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would allow a programmer to assign a percentage to a vote. One candidate could be 95% of 1 and another could be 105% of 1.
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I can only really talk about Ohio machines & ballots, but how it works here is that the ballots are unique per precinct (local tax issues, local candidates, etc), and the machines will work on any ballot in the county (you can see this if you early vote at the Board of Elections).

You can look at your local ballots prior to an election. For example, if you go here:

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lookup.boe.ohio.gov

you can see a Van Wert county approved sample ballot (note the BOE signatures)

The machines are general purpose, purchased by the state & "programmed" by the county for the local ballots. "Programming" is done using the machine vendor's software, not actually code writing. Ballot design is agreed upon by Republican & Democratic election reps. Because the machines are general purpose, they are looking in a location on the ballot to be darkened, that location is programmed to equal a vote, and the location is assigned to a candidate in the voting machines database, it doesn't really read the candidates name.

Kind of like the old scantron tests, the grader didn't know the answers, it only knew what space it had been told was the correct answer.

In theory, a machine could be manipulated, but the ballots are kept as a paper trail, because a person hand counting them knows how to identify a correct vote. Ballot scanners have no network radios in them and are never connected to a network.

County voting systems are tested by a federally accredited testing laboratory and certified by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission. The certification program tests a voting system against federal performance and security standards.

Prior to an election machines programmed for the county basically run an election with all sample ballots, that's what I mean that quality assurance failed.

There is a whole procedure to open a precinct for voting & the machines are never left unlocked while unattended, they ship to the locations in locked cages, return to the county in locked cages, votes on the machines are recorded on removable storage, the removable storage and paper ballots are delivered by hand to the county board. The removable storage is shipped to and from the precinct separated from the machines. Each machine is stored in a bag locked with tamper proof seals. The tamper proof seal number are recorded at opening and resealing.

Data stored on the removable storage is encrypted. Removable storage is assigned to a specific ballot scanner. If the machine detects a different memory device, the machine will not accept ballots.

Results released on election night are not official election results. The day after the election, all memory devices are re-uploaded. This process starts the official election results process.
 
I

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
MoeBiden said:
I can only really talk about Ohio machines & ballots, but how it works here is that the ballots are unique per precinct (local tax issues, local candidates, etc), and the machines will work on any ballot in the county (you can see this if you early vote at the Board of Elections).

You can look at your local ballots prior to an election. For example, if you go here:

Loading…

lookup.boe.ohio.gov

you can see a Van Wert county approved sample ballot (note the BOE signatures)

The machines are general purpose, purchased by the state & "programmed" by the county for the local ballots. "Programming" is done using the machine vendor's software, not actually code writing. Ballot design is agreed upon by Republican & Democratic election reps. Because the machines are general purpose, they are looking in a location on the ballot to be darkened, that location is programmed to equal a vote, and the location is assigned to a candidate in the voting machines database, it doesn't really read the candidates name.

Kind of like the old scantron tests, the grader didn't know the answers, it only knew what space it had been told was the correct answer.

In theory, a machine could be manipulated, but the ballots are kept as a paper trail, because a person hand counting them knows how to identify a correct vote. Ballot scanners have no network radios in them and are never connected to a network.

County voting systems are tested by a federally accredited testing laboratory and certified by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission. The certification program tests a voting system against federal performance and security standards.

Prior to an election machines programmed for the county basically run an election with all sample ballots, that's what I mean that quality assurance failed.

There is a whole procedure to open a precinct for voting & the machines are never left unlocked while unattended, they ship to the locations in locked cages, return to the county in locked cages, votes on the machines are recorded on removable storage, the removable storage and paper ballots are delivered by hand to the county board. The removable storage is shipped to and from the precinct separated from the machines. Each machine is stored in a bag locked with tamper proof seals. The tamper proof seal number are recorded at opening and resealing.

Data stored on the removable storage is encrypted. Removable storage is assigned to a specific ballot scanner. If the machine detects a different memory device, the machine will not accept ballots.

Results released on election night are not official election results. The day after the election, all memory devices are re-uploaded. This process starts the official election results process.
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Can you see the inconsistencies in this article?
www.politico.com

Cause of Election Day glitch in Georgia counties still unexplained

The problem prompted a judge to extend voting hours.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
 
MoeBiden

MoeBiden

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I enjoy wrestling said:
Can you see the inconsistencies in this article?
www.politico.com

Cause of Election Day glitch in Georgia counties still unexplained

The problem prompted a judge to extend voting hours.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
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In addition to poll workers using the poll books to sign in voters, they also use the devices to program smart cards that voters insert into the Dominion voting machines to allow them to cast a ballot. When voters sign in at a voting location, poll workers insert the smart card into the poll book and encode it for that voter. The card is then inserted into voting machines to display the proper ballot for that voter. The glitch prevented poll workers from encoding those cards.

This sounds like they don't use pen and paper to mark a ballot, doesn't seem like it saves much effort. I am a hand marked, paper ballot fan.

It's not in the article, but I assume they still create a paper ballot just like an ADA voting machine does in Ohio, via a printer.

When you get a paper ballot in Ohio (at least in my county) you get a two piece ballot, worker scans the ballot to associate the stub with you, that's the paper trail to keep track of who voted. You fill out the ballot, tear off the stub, give that to the exit person to mark you as voted in the paper poll book, and scan the ballot in the machine.

The set up in Georgia replaced that stub with a smart card, which is basically a physical encrypted token. Seems like technology for technology sake, but not inherently less secure, but certainly less convenient. Those voting machines are still air gapped from the internet.

To be clear, even in Ohio the poll books are network and internet connected, the ballot machines are not. The county reporting systems in Ohio are internet connected. The poll books are connected so they can get the latest voter into, precinct reporting is done to feed the media
 
MoeBiden

MoeBiden

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I enjoy wrestling said:
apnews.com

Feds oppose immediate release of voting machine report

ATLANTA (AP) — A federal cybersecurity agency is reviewing a report that alleges security vulnerabilities in voting machines used by Georgia and other states and says the document shouldn't be made public until the agency has had time to assess and mitigate potential risks.
apnews.com apnews.com
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They should release the report, but companies and governments want to delay vulnerability disclosure all the time through some false sense of security.
 
I

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MoeBiden said:
In addition to poll workers using the poll books to sign in voters, they also use the devices to program smart cards that voters insert into the Dominion voting machines to allow them to cast a ballot. When voters sign in at a voting location, poll workers insert the smart card into the poll book and encode it for that voter. The card is then inserted into voting machines to display the proper ballot for that voter. The glitch prevented poll workers from encoding those cards.

This sounds like they don't use pen and paper to mark a ballot, doesn't seem like it saves much effort. I am a hand marked, paper ballot fan.

It's not in the article, but I assume they still create a paper ballot just like an ADA voting machine does in Ohio, via a printer.

When you get a paper ballot in Ohio (at least in my county) you get a two piece ballot, worker scans the ballot to associate the stub with you, that's the paper trail to keep track of who voted. You fill out the ballot, tear off the stub, give that to the exit person to mark you as voted in the paper poll book, and scan the ballot in the machine.

The set up in Georgia replaced that stub with a smart card, which is basically a physical encrypted token. Seems like technology for technology sake, but not inherently less secure, but certainly less convenient. Those voting machines are still air gapped from the internet.

To be clear, even in Ohio the poll books are network and internet connected, the ballot machines are not. The county reporting systems in Ohio are internet connected. The poll books are connected so they can get the latest voter into, precinct reporting is done to feed the media
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I'm for all paper. Ballot counts can be counted by machine, but monitored by equal representation. Periodically spot check counts vrs Machine count. X marks, no fill in the area. Limited mail in voting and it's cut off early. 7 days before election. Pre-counted before election. That must be reported when polls close.

If it's connected to the internet it's a problem. Imo You can't claim Russia can interfere in our elections and then say our voting systems aren't connected to the internet. We have been warned about vulnerabilities for years.

Russia can and does use internet Propaganda. The were busy in 2020 sewing seeds of disinformation for both candidates.
 
MoeBiden

MoeBiden

Active member
I enjoy wrestling said:
I'm for all paper. Ballot counts can be counted by machine, but monitored by equal representation. Periodically spot check counts vrs Machine count. X marks, no fill in the area. Limited mail in voting and it's cut off early. 7 days before election. Pre-counted before election. That must be reported when polls close.

If it's connected to the internet it's a problem. Imo You can't claim Russia can interfere in our elections and then say our voting systems aren't connected to the internet. We have been warned about vulnerabilities for years.

Russia can and does use internet Propaganda. The were busy in 2020 sewing seeds of disinformation for both candidates.
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voting machines, poll books and reporting systems are distinct and separate systems, with different requirements.

Loading…

www.eac.gov

This is the federal certification process:

System Certification Process | U.S. Election Assistance Commission

www.eac.gov www.eac.gov

if someone connect certain systems to the internet, they are no longer federally certified. States run elections, so participation in the process is voluntary, but if a state or county volunteers to participate in the process you have to abide by the rules of certification.

Of course people are doing these things and they screw up everything.

Here is ohio's law on voting machines:

Section 3506.23 - Voting machines not to be connected to internet, Ohio Rev. Code § 3506.23 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Section 3506.23 - Voting machines not to be connected to internet, Ohio Rev. Code § 3506.23, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database
casetext.com
 
I

I enjoy wrestling

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MoeBiden said:
voting machines, poll books and reporting systems are distinct and separate systems, with different requirements.

Loading…

www.eac.gov

This is the federal certification process:

System Certification Process | U.S. Election Assistance Commission

www.eac.gov www.eac.gov

if someone connect certain systems to the internet, they are no longer federally certified. States run elections, so participation in the process is voluntary, but if a state or county volunteers to participate in the process you have to abide by the rules of certification.

Of course people are doing these things and they screw up everything.

Here is ohio's law on voting machines:

Section 3506.23 - Voting machines not to be connected to internet, Ohio Rev. Code § 3506.23 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Section 3506.23 - Voting machines not to be connected to internet, Ohio Rev. Code § 3506.23, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database
casetext.com
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You seemed well versed in the process. Why would people not follow the rules?
 
MoeBiden

MoeBiden

Active member
I enjoy wrestling said:
You seemed well versed in the process. Why would people not follow the rules?
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They might not understand anything about computers, they may not know the rules, they may not agree with the rules, they may not understand the rules, the rules may contradict what they understand, they might be dumb, they might think they are smarter than the people who made the rules, the rules might be too complicated, they might think the rules are too complicated, the rules might make things too difficult, they may not understand the environment they are working in, they might be malicious, they might think they are preventing malicious acts, they might be in a hurry and breaking the rules makes it easier to do something, the rules might not be clear, they may have missed a rule.

This is not a complete list.

In Ohio, outside of the BOE and State folks, everyone running the election is a volunteer, employed for 1-3 days per year. the screening process is "did you show up? are you a pain in the a**?". The needed skillsets may not exist. There is remote vendor support, but the vendors aren't setting up the systems on site.
 
I

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MoeBiden said:
They might not understand anything about computers, they may not know the rules, they may not agree with the rules, they may not understand the rules, the rules may contradict what they understand, they might be dumb, they might think they are smarter than the people who made the rules, the rules might be too complicated, they might think the rules are too complicated, the rules might make things too difficult, they may not understand the environment they are working in, they might be malicious, they might think they are preventing malicious acts, they might be in a hurry and breaking the rules makes it easier to do something, the rules might not be clear, they may have missed a rule.

This is not a complete list.

In Ohio, outside of the BOE and State folks, everyone running the election is a volunteer, employed for 1-3 days per year. the screening process is "did you show up? are you a pain in the a**?". The needed skillsets may not exist. There is remote vendor support, but the vendors aren't setting up the systems on site.
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Seems like a system invitation for bad behavior.
 
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