2024 Northern Lakes League....both divisions

jafo said:
It's a shed builder's dream...
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Garden Shed GIF by Sheds Direct Ireland
 
Roscoe said:
Congrats to Lima Sr. barring any major upsets in City League play they are well on their way to a 10-0 season. Getting out of the TRAC is working out for them it seems. Winning only breeds winning and their future looks bright.

Meanwhile in Fremont they are content with a losing culture where nobody cares anymore. My how times have changed.
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Barring some catastrophic event, Lima should go 10-0 for the first time in school history. Yes, getting out of the TRAC for not just football, but all sports (except boys bball) has been very uplifting for Spartan athletics.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
Barring some catastrophic event, Lima should go 10-0 for the first time in school history. Yes, getting out of the TRAC for not just football, but all sports (except boys bball) has been very uplifting for Spartan athletics.
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Being the only non-TPS school in a league is a winning business model, but that doesn't undercut the job that staff has done there. Beating Findlay, without Montgomery or not, is a serious win. Bringing the Kenton system to Lima has been a great match of scheme and athletes.
 
Roscoe said:
Perhaps they will apply to the NLL?
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They petitioned the NLL and they said no...horrible cultural fit and bad programs. If the NLL is at 11 teams and Lima was interested and the NLL was interested in adding them it would've been done.
 
CC Track Fan said:
NLL schools don't want them. Have you seen the quality of their sports teams other than men's basketball and football? Or how many fans they bring to games?
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I've seen a few and they seem as well attended as most other programs'. Specific example, I was there for a different purpose and heard a lot of commotion over at the stadium. There was a sizable crowd for fricken lacrosse. Lima Senior also has fantastic facilities for the non-revenue sports. They still have a bit of unused acreage, be nice to see some on-site tennis facilities.

If you're talking "away" games, prove me wrong that they bring any less than any other school, traveling that distance.

As for "quality," let's bring in your expertise. What do you think the underlying problem is? There something in their system that inhibits bringing in good coaches? Is it the jimmy and janes? What's the problem here that supposedly all other members of the NLL have solved?
 
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eastisbest said:
I've seen a few and they seem as well attended as most other programs'. Specific example, I was there for a different purpose and heard a lot of commotion over at the stadium. There was a sizable crowd for fricken lacrosse. Lima Senior also has fantastic facilities for the non-revenue sports. They still have a bit of unused acreage, be nice to see some on-site tennis facilities.

If you're talking "away" games, prove me wrong that they bring any less than any other school, traveling that distance.

As for "quality," let's bring in your expertise. What do you think the underlying problem is? There something in their system that inhibits bringing in good coaches? Is it the jimmy and janes? What's the problem here that supposedly all other members of the NLL have solved?
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School don't really care about how many people go to that school's home games they only care about how many paying customers they will bring to their school. Yes distance is a factor the number of fans that travel (BTW Lima didn't bring many fans to Findlay a couple weeks ago) but since Lima is so far away from most schools that has to be considered in bringing in a school. Not to mention the cost to the schools to travel so far and the time the kids have to spend on a bus.

Lima "quality" suffers from same thing most city schools do. Low number of two parent households or even two parents involved in kids life.

The only reason Lima is a fit is because the NLL is at 11 school and that only matters for football. Lima doesn't fit with the NLL in hardly any other way. NLL has found a reasonable fix for that one problem so why create so many other problems to fix one.
 
CC Track Fan said:
The only reason Lima is a fit is because the NLL is at 11 school and that only matters for football. Lima doesn't fit with the NLL in hardly any other way. NLL has found a reasonable fix for that one problem so why create so many other problems to fix one.
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Findlay brings nothing new to the table and they're a long drive. Fremont brings nothing new to the table and they're a long drive. Neither fits in with the NLL. Yet they're in the league out of pity, because they have no where else to go. If they did, they'd drop the NLL in a heartbeat, let's not deceive ourselves.

"so many" is subjective. Balancing books versus why are you in the education business in the first place? Lima brings to the NLL no less than any other school in the league.
 
eastisbest said:
Findlay brings nothing new to the table and they're a long drive. Fremont brings nothing new to the table and they're a long drive. Neither fits in with the NLL. Yet they're in the league out of pity, because they have no where else to go. If they did, they'd drop the NLL in a heartbeat, let's not deceive ourselves.

"so many" is subjective. Balancing books versus why are you in the education business in the first place? Lima brings to the NLL no less than any other school in the league.
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I would argue that Findlay fits in with the NLL culturally better than Whitmer. They were the no-brainer add, especially since the other large schools played them in essentially every sport the league sponsors anyways.
 
ToledoGuy said:
I would argue that Findlay fits in with the NLL culturally better than Whitmer. They were the no-brainer add, especially since the other large schools played them in essentially every sport the league sponsors anyways.
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Was that the purpose of your high school experience? I'm glad I went elsewhere. ;)

What I feel made the TCL socially and educationally strong was no school "culturally" identical. List out the schools of the old TCL, which were "culturally" fitting? That was strength. Did Lima ever run, when their teams were losing games in the NLL? Give up? You would you side with the one that only takes on the challenges they can dominate or the ones trying to climb the mountain?

Make all the excuses of distance, strength of programs anyone wants but the real reason is the one you just gave. If teams can drive to Findlay, they can drive to Lima.

35-31 :D
 
eastisbest said:
Was that the purpose of your high school experience? I'm glad I went elsewhere. ;)

What I feel made the TCL socially and educationally strong was no school "culturally" identical. List out the schools of the old TCL, which were "culturally" fitting? That was strength. Did Lima ever run, when their teams were losing games in the NLL? Give up? You would you side with the one that only takes on the challenges they can dominate or the ones trying to climb the mountain?

Make all the excuses of distance, strength of programs anyone wants but the real reason is the one you just gave. If teams can drive to Findlay, they can drive to Lima.

35-31 :D
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Oh absolutely not, but I'm just speaking realistically lol.
 
horseface said:
Being the only non-TPS school in a league is a winning business model, but that doesn't undercut the job that staff has done there. Beating Findlay, without Montgomery or not, is a serious win. Bringing the Kenton system to Lima has been a great match of scheme and athletes.
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More so non-football and boys basketball. Football was competitive under Fell in the TRAC but the TCAL has proven to be a notch or two below Lima's talents. Beating Piqua in back to back years, while maybe not as a good a Piqua team as years ago, has been a very good sign. Beating Findlay for the first time since 2017? is a big deal.

Now on to the other sports. The TRAC was possibly far too competitive for Lima in the Olympic sports or the non-revenue sports. Especially on the girls side of things. Getting those sports into the TCAL has proven to be a confidence booster for those kids and sports who can now actually compete.
 
933York said:
Lima Sr. is in the 2nd year of a 4-year contract with the Toledo City League. Their long-term tenure may not be permanent.
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Said this after last year. Lima kinda came in and ran the show from the word go and does not seem to be stopping. Start, Scott, Bowsher have proven to be some good competition in some sports but Lima definitely found a league where they can compete the entire calendar year regardless of sport.
 
eastisbest said:
Was that the purpose of your high school experience? I'm glad I went elsewhere. ;)

What I feel made the TCL socially and educationally strong was no school "culturally" identical. List out the schools of the old TCL, which were "culturally" fitting? That was strength. Did Lima ever run, when their teams were losing games in the NLL? Give up? You would you side with the one that only takes on the challenges they can dominate or the ones trying to climb the mountain?

Make all the excuses of distance, strength of programs anyone wants but the real reason is the one you just gave. If teams can drive to Findlay, they can drive to Lima.

35-31 :D
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I don't think he meant anything negative by it, but look at last year's state champion Anthony Wayne in golf. They won D1 last season with very low scores and I don't believe Lima was even able to field a team. It's not really a knock on Lima Senior, it's just the core of the NLL is white collar suburbs that are really good at the country club & travel heavy sports.

I think the bigger issue is that they're sitting at 772 for enrollment boys/girls combined. They essentially will remain in the smaller division, especially with Southview at 859 & Northview at 952. I can't imagine Springfield, Northview, Southview & Clay would love them joining and locking up one more spot in the easier division.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
Said this after last year. Lima kinda came in and ran the show from the word go and does not seem to be stopping. Start, Scott, Bowsher have proven to be some good competition in some sports but Lima definitely found a league where they can compete the entire calendar year regardless of sport.
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Who agrees with this definition of "compete?" Wasn't the problem that Lima supposedly wasn't competitive with the NLL? How now is that "competing?"
 
smurfyeah19 said:
I don't think he meant anything negative by it, but look at last year's state champion Anthony Wayne in golf. They won D1 last season with very low scores and I don't believe Lima was even able to field a team. It's not really a knock on Lima Senior, it's just the core of the NLL is white collar suburbs that are really good at the country club & travel heavy sports.

I think the bigger issue is that they're sitting at 772 for enrollment boys/girls combined. They essentially will remain in the smaller division, especially with Southview at 859 & Northview at 952. I can't imagine Springfield, Northview, Southview & Clay would love them joining and locking up one more spot in the easier division.
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Lima Senior's website says they have golf. And swimming. Maybe they were waiting to have a need for golf, before forming a golf team. If accusing the NLL of being snobs, say snobs.

What was the really story here anyhow before jumping the gun? Was Lima not invited or did they opt-out? Makes sense to me they first found another place to land then opted out of NLL. Is that what happened?

I think my argument for why we have high school sports still holds. Being honest in discussion is too. Don't we all really know the argument against Lima isn't distance? It isn't available sports. It isn't quality of the competition they provide. Economic differential? Really?

If they were Dublin Coffman stuck in the middle of nowhere, they'd be in the league. Until Coffman found a better one.
 
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eastisbest said:
Lima Senior's website says they have golf. And swimming. Maybe they were waiting to have a need for golf, before forming a golf team. If accusing the NLL of being snobs, say snobs.

What was the really story here anyhow before jumping the gun? Was Lima not invited or did they opt-out? Makes sense to me they first found another place to land then opted out of NLL. Is that what happened?

I think my argument for why we have high school sports still holds. Being honest in discussion is too. Don't we all really know the argument against Lima isn't distance? It isn't available sports. It isn't quality of the competition they provide. Economic differential? Really?

If they were Dublin Coffman stuck in the middle of nowhere, they'd be in the league. Until Coffman found a better one.
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I think it is primarily distance, especially considering how relatively compact this league is pertaining to metro Toledo. But the second big issue really is the "short straw" someone gets. We all know Perrysburg, AW, Findlay, Whitmer and Northview will always be in the big division & that Napoleon and Bowling Green will always be in the smaller division. Springfield, Clay, Ross & Southview are all in that "last spot" position where someone will draw the short straw to play up. Right now it's Springfield and next season it will be Clay.

If you put Lima Senior in this league then that cements them as the 3rd small school team based on their size, plus it adds more challenge to the Cardinal division in the main two sports.
 
eastisbest said:
Lima Senior's website says they have golf. And swimming. Maybe they were waiting to have a need for golf, before forming a golf team. If accusing the NLL of being snobs, say snobs.

What was the really story here anyhow before jumping the gun? Was Lima not invited or did they opt-out? Makes sense to me they first found another place to land then opted out of NLL. Is that what happened?

I think my argument for why we have high school sports still holds. Being honest in discussion is too. Don't we all really know the argument against Lima isn't distance? It isn't available sports. It isn't quality of the competition they provide. Economic differential? Really?

If they were Dublin Coffman stuck in the middle of nowhere, they'd be in the league. Until Coffman found a better one.
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Lima was not invited despite petitioning for membership, then they offered to essentially fill the "bye"/crossover week for every team in the NLL in football and the NLL still said no thanks. The non-Whitmer/Findlay ADs wanted no part of Lima Senior in the NLL.
 
eastisbest said:
Lima Senior's website says they have golf. And swimming. Maybe they were waiting to have a need for golf, before forming a golf team. If accusing the NLL of being snobs, say snobs.

What was the really story here anyhow before jumping the gun? Was Lima not invited or did they opt-out? Makes sense to me they first found another place to land then opted out of NLL. Is that what happened?

I think my argument for why we have high school sports still holds. Being honest in discussion is too. Don't we all really know the argument against Lima isn't distance? It isn't available sports. It isn't quality of the competition they provide. Economic differential? Really?

If they were Dublin Coffman stuck in the middle of nowhere, they'd be in the league. Until Coffman found a better one.
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Lima Sr would be a waste of everyone’s time competing in baseball, soccer, tennis, softball, cross country, golf and probably volleyball too. I assume they don’t have lacrosse. I swear some of you just like to argue. Their athletics align with the city league school’s far more closely than the NLL, that’s why they’re in the city and not the NLL.
 
smurfyeah19 said:
I don't think he meant anything negative by it, but look at last year's state champion Anthony Wayne in golf. They won D1 last season with very low scores and I don't believe Lima was even able to field a team. It's not really a knock on Lima Senior, it's just the core of the NLL is white collar suburbs that are really good at the country club & travel heavy sports.

I think the bigger issue is that they're sitting at 772 for enrollment boys/girls combined. They essentially will remain in the smaller division, especially with Southview at 859 & Northview at 952. I can't imagine Springfield, Northview, Southview & Clay would love them joining and locking up one more spot in the easier division.
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It is not just "country club" sport Lima struggles at. The last year of TRAC the boys didn't even score a point at Track and Field meet because they didn't have anyone qualify for the finals and entered no relay teams. Combined boys and girls entered less than 10 kids if I remember correctly.
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eastisbest said:
Who agrees with this definition of "compete?" Wasn't the problem that Lima supposedly wasn't competitive with the NLL? How now is that "competing?"
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Not sure I'm following but I'll take a crack at it here.

The TRAC for non-revenue sports was not great we'll say for Lima. Football had some good seasons, certainly boy's basketball did very well but for the majority of the sports Lima did not fair terribly well in the TRAC. Would they have faired better in the NLL? We'll never know (at least for now, maybe some day) due to the NLL's demographics being more in line with the TRAC. Grant it, the NLL does not have the SUA's and NDA's of the world but let's be fair, the TCAL is not the NLL. Especially when it comes to sub-varsity athletics and non-revenue athletics.

Lima found a league that allows their athletes to be successful agreed?
 
scbuckeye99 said:
Not sure I'm following but I'll take a crack at it here.

The TRAC for non-revenue sports was not great we'll say for Lima. Football had some good seasons, certainly boy's basketball did very well but for the majority of the sports Lima did not fair terribly well in the TRAC. Would they have faired better in the NLL? We'll never know (at least for now, maybe some day) due to the NLL's demographics being more in line with the TRAC. Grant it, the NLL does not have the SUA's and NDA's of the world but let's be fair, the TCAL is not the NLL. Especially when it comes to sub-varsity athletics and non-revenue athletics.

Lima found a league that allows their athletes to be successful agreed?
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"compete" "successful" not even a change in semantics. 🤷 If Lima by your standards didn't provide competition for the NLL, then the NLL was not successful against them. Flipping the script doesn't change the underlying premise.
 
eastisbest said:
Findlay brings nothing new to the table and they're a long drive. Fremont brings nothing new to the table and they're a long drive. Neither fits in with the NLL. Yet they're in the league out of pity, because they have no where else to go. If they did, they'd drop the NLL in a heartbeat, let's not deceive ourselves.

"so many" is subjective. Balancing books versus why are you in the education business in the first place? Lima brings to the NLL no less than any other school in the league.
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Findlay, Whitmer, Perrysburg, AW, and the Toledo parochial schools in their own league would be a better fit than now.

Fremont Ross is a better fit in the SBC regardless of the schools that don’t want them. Especially since their archrival is already in this conference along with Tiffin.

The rest of the NLL schools are better together minus the schools mentioned above. Swapped Maumee out with Clay.

Unless Lima Sr. is joining the WBL, which will most likely never happen, The Toledo City League is probably their best option.
 
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