State Champions Celebrations
- Thread starter new2this
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Campolongo
Moderator
100% agree with the responsibility falling on the competitor. My take would be more so categorized as preventative officiating. Not required, but could help.
CedarBuck92
Well-known member
The issue with "Act like you've been here before" is the way people interpret that to mean zero emotion.
Wow!! Never equated that statement to showing no emotion. Have no idea where that correlation came from. To most people I would think it means to act classy; nothing more nothing less.
tkdn_wizard
Member
I think the majority of people on here don't have a problem with kids celebrating, but where is the line.
I'd also ask when did this start to become more of a thing? Because 10-15 years ago you might have a handful of kids 5-10 kids over 3 divisions (that number could be a little higher) do a back flip or something, but it seemed like this weekend every other match a kid was doing something - doing a back flip, hitting a move on their coach, spiking their head gear etc.
"Act like you've been here before" - some haven't, and some may only be there once (senior year state champ for example), so I agree let them have their moment, but I think that has its limits too.
And I think some of it it has to fall on the officials to some extent because not all coaches treat celebrations the same. Some are fine with the above mentioned or even more excessive celebrations. Some kids love to push the envelop and see how far they can go, and someone has to pull them back down if they start to take it too far when the coach won't.
I think those who do a back flip or celebration after the handshake is fine, but I think they force the officials hand for an unsportsmanlike when they do something that holds up the handshake and make the opponent stand there, watch, and wait.
I'd also ask when did this start to become more of a thing? Because 10-15 years ago you might have a handful of kids 5-10 kids over 3 divisions (that number could be a little higher) do a back flip or something, but it seemed like this weekend every other match a kid was doing something - doing a back flip, hitting a move on their coach, spiking their head gear etc.
"Act like you've been here before" - some haven't, and some may only be there once (senior year state champ for example), so I agree let them have their moment, but I think that has its limits too.
And I think some of it it has to fall on the officials to some extent because not all coaches treat celebrations the same. Some are fine with the above mentioned or even more excessive celebrations. Some kids love to push the envelop and see how far they can go, and someone has to pull them back down if they start to take it too far when the coach won't.
I think those who do a back flip or celebration after the handshake is fine, but I think they force the officials hand for an unsportsmanlike when they do something that holds up the handshake and make the opponent stand there, watch, and wait.
Lichtenberg
Member
If it’s beautiful and classy, it’s good. If it’s not and you act like a jackass, it’s bad. It’s like porn, you know it when you see it. Although some have no nuance to their though and are dim-witted, and can’t even discern day from night.
ToledoWrestling133
New member
Can't say how I would act but there were a couple that I was like maybe that is getting close to the line. The headgear slam that resulted in a push... I'm not saying either were right or wrong but it was excessive in my opinion because it wasn't just the slam.
SW Supporter
Active member
Because officials want to get involved in everything else. Why when straps are not up when the wrestler walks on the mat or off the mat does the official get involved? Its the officials job to have control of the mat area. Should they have to deal with it, no but they are the one who ultimately is in control.
Jim Behrens
Well-known member
Several items that you don't seem to understand.
The vast majority of officials (I would say all but that is too broad) have zero desire to become a focal point of anything. We become that focal point when a rule is applied and people don't like it.
Regarding the straps up, you really need to read a Rule Book. Rule 7-4-2 covers this very clearly. It is NEVER that an official wants to make that call but, if it is there, it has to be called. What do you say when it happens and the opposing coach calls it out? Are there other rules that don't get enforced that day?
Again, I ask you, what can I possibly do to stop a wrestler from spiking his headgear, throwing their coach, doing a back flip or anything else?? We might be "in control" but I would ask you what should be done? As far as I can tell, we can only enforce a rule after the offense is committed.
Since you have the Rule Book handy, open it up to the 2023-24 Points of emphasis page and tell us what it says.
Also, keep in mind that this is a post match team point. In the vast majority of cases, it means less than nothing overall.
With that, I am out. Have a great day.
CedarBuck92
Well-known member
Overall, this is where I am. Show some joy and excitement, shake hands and congratulate your opponent on a good match, go celebrate in anyway that doesn't cause harm or belittle others, get off the mat so the next match can occur.
Credit to Jim for being tactful. On the other hand, I just call this statement BS. The last thing that 95% of the NE Ohio officials I've worked with would say is, if I don't have to be involved in something all the better. It's kind of like when you're the head official of a so-called prestigious event. People think it's such an honor, but let me tell you the more you are assigned to the position of head official the more you appreciate it when you don't have to be involved in decisions; much less looking to be involved in them. LOL!!
TWO&BBQ
Active member
What incentives can be given to refs so that the talent on the mat matches the talent in stripes. Its in everyone's favor to have the best refs so what ideas would you purpose as a former ref? Would better pay be the biggest thing?
ShootNation
Well-known member
Repercussions for being bad, why work to improve when being completely mediocre can still get you a slot at the state tournament
Different sports different rules. You ever hear how the Coaches jaw at the officials in FB? Compare that to wrestling. Not the same.
eaglepride
Well-known member
Thanks for the response. I am not familiar with rules and guidelines of wrestling in comparison to football, which is heavily scrutinized.
TWO&BBQ
Active member
I don't know how do you treat your job when you are in fear of being fired? I think you have to treat a referee the same as an employee after covid. You have to develop people willing to do the job. We all see it at our workplace there is nobody in line to do anything especially referee wrestling.
SW Supporter
Active member
what they say and what they do are two different things. I continually see the same refs being involved in the drama. Maybe in your part of the state you have the best officials and it doesnt happen, but guys get reputations for a reason.
10 Inch Falcon
Well-known member
One of the coldest celebrations in the game is Knox from NJ. He's been counting down from his freshman year. Most of the time you see people hold out 2,3, or 4 if they've won multiple. He held out 3 after winning as a freshman, 2 as a soph, and 1 this past year.
I think nearly anything should be allowed as long as it isn't taunting or excessively long. I don't even care if the kids doing crotch chops at the crowd, they just reached the pinnacle of their sport.
I think nearly anything should be allowed as long as it isn't taunting or excessively long. I don't even care if the kids doing crotch chops at the crowd, they just reached the pinnacle of their sport.
Nicolas Nickleby
New member
The lack of celebration is super impressive too. The real man is the kid who wins his long awaited title, gets his hand raised and just walks off the mat. He celebrates in his heart and his self-worth isn’t based on the approval of others.
Sometimes the excessive or really showy celebration can be a sign of someone who is insecure or his sole identity is in the sport, career, material possession or self-aggrandizement.
Sometimes the excessive or really showy celebration can be a sign of someone who is insecure or his sole identity is in the sport, career, material possession or self-aggrandizement.
Buckeye454
Member
I thought the same thing several times while catching up on this thread. I was wondering if anyone else noticed this one...of all the celebrations I saw on Sunday night, one stood out:
D2 138: Graham's kid flipped a district final and when he won, it was almost like he couldn't wait to get off the mat. No scream, no flex, no dance...just got his hand raised, shook everyone else's and walked off the mat like he just won his first round match at the sectionals.
No shade towards anyone celebrating: it's your moment, do as you wish (within reason), but the lack of grandeur really stood out to me. Impressive to maintain that kind of composure in THAT moment.
I've been keeping an eye on the media pages for an interview- be very interested to hear him speak about his experience. Certainly a unique response in today's landscape.
ShootNation
Well-known member
I think almost 100% of the time the excessive celebrations are a sign that the kid is the state champ
CedarBuck92
Well-known member
I was waiting for that "I prefer kids to remain emotionless" response.
CoachCatBWHS
Member
I think for me the line is taunting. It is a big emotional moment. If a kid does a back flip, round off, hand spring after the handshake - I don't think that is taunting. If a kid does the stupid bow and arrow celebration, or any celebration before the handshake AND after shoving their opponent or pushing off of them to get up - that is taunting. Act like you have been there before could mean different things to different people - but everyone should agree on the taunting piece.
Props and staged celebrations are weird to me, but whatever floats their boat, as long as it is not taunting.
Props and staged celebrations are weird to me, but whatever floats their boat, as long as it is not taunting.
CoachCatBWHS
Member
And that is part of the reason they are who they are and have won 23 consecutive titles.
Old&Grumpy142
Well-known member
I don't even remember much of this match, but after 15 years, this moment still brings me to the verge of tears. Sports are about passion! Let them celebrate!
Attachments
Hayden Hughes is such a good kid! hard working, never quit attitude, would run through a brick a wall for his teammates. I told him before the finals, "get us started stud" and he did. Congrats to Lindsay too, its very hard to beat someone 3 times in a year at their level.
2010 - I remember a kid named Tucker Armstrong. Won a state title for Graham as a 10th grader. Lost his spot the next year. Goes to California and is runner up out there i believe. Comes home to Kenton Ridge for senior year. 34-6 record, state runnerup and all 6 losses to the same Graham kid. A kid named Felipe Martinez.
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Reminded me of a team mate of mine. 2nd at Sectionals, 2nd at District, 4th at State. All three to the same opponent.