D2 Region 8

warriorblue said:
Knowing Everhart, he may not have many athletes to run an open system. He will probably put his better athletes on defense and play a ball control offense like the wing- T. I know he LOVES the triple but if he doesn't have the right QB he probably will run the Wing T. As Steve Channell was hired on Everhart's Middletown staff for a season.
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Gap down backer baby!!
 
RemoveHarbins said:
That offensive style will win you some games that dont matter and none of the games that do. Regressing to 1950s football when there has been so much evolution in offensive football the past 30 years is the equivalent of just giving up and trying to salvage 8-2 seasons each year that include an early playoff exit. Only teams with VASTLY superior athletes can run that style with any effectiveness when it matters late in the post season.

I truly feel sorry for fans and kids that have to suffer thru being stuck in programs that lack the awareness to understand how the game has evolved and how disadvantaged their programs are by failing to have any imagination.
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If run effectively there are way more options of attack from the Wing T then the spread. Its takes a program that has developed players that understand what they are doing and a coaching staff willing to open up the play book. Seldom seen combo.
 
RemoveHarbins said:
That offensive style will win you some games that dont matter and none of the games that do. Regressing to 1950s football when there has been so much evolution in offensive football the past 30 years is the equivalent of just giving up and trying to salvage 8-2 seasons each year that include an early playoff exit. Only teams with VASTLY superior athletes can run that style with any effectiveness when it matters late in the post season.

I truly feel sorry for fans and kids that have to suffer thru being stuck in programs that lack the awareness to understand how the game has evolved and how disadvantaged their programs are by failing to have any imagination.
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Tell me you know nothing about football without telling me you know nothing about football.

Seriously, Wing-T is showing imagination. Ive discussed on here how everyone runs the spread and 90% of teams do an absolutely terrible job at it. There is no system, just a random assemblage of plays that the OC sees either on Madden or watching weekend football. Doing something different from everyone else is literally using your imagination.

Secondly, you need to have vastly superior athletes period to not have an early playoff exit. The system doesn't matter.

Lastly, the Wing-T is by far the best offense to run when you DON'T have superior athletes. A coach choosing to run such an offense knows this, and just doesn't decide to run the Wing-T on a whim. A coach choosing this offense should tell everyone how unathletic their team is. Teams that run the ball the best typically have the most success. Let's face it, Troy isn't making it out of R8 with LaSalle and Winton Woods, no matter what offensive system they run.
 
cincifbfan said:
Tell me you know nothing about football without telling me you know nothing about football.

Seriously, Wing-T is showing imagination. Ive discussed on here how everyone runs the spread and 90% of teams do an absolutely terrible job at it. There is no system, just a random assemblage of plays that the OC sees either on Madden or watching weekend football. Doing something different from everyone else is literally using your imagination.

Secondly, you need to have vastly superior athletes period to not have an early playoff exit. The system doesn't matter.

Lastly, the Wing-T is by far the best offense to run when you DON'T have superior athletes. A coach choosing to run such an offense knows this, and just doesn't decide to run the Wing-T on a whim. A coach choosing this offense should tell everyone how unathletic their team is. Teams that run the ball the best typically have the most success. Let's face it, Troy isn't making it out of R8 with LaSalle and Winton Woods, no matter what offensive system they run.
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Exactly! The wing T has so much variety available a coach can really dial in what they can do each year with the talent they have available. The more talent the more diverse the play calling. Its also fun to set the defense up for their own demise with careful play selection. Play calling is very critical, a skill that is very lacking in some of these younger coaches.

With everyone running the spread these days a good Wing T team can have a lot of success. DC's don't see it much and it will give them fits. If run correctly, the more aggressive the D is, the better it works.
 
RemoveHarbins said:
We definitely agree on the very last part. As I said, you are signaling you are giving up.

Running wing T is the equivalent of entering a horse and buggy in the Indy 500. These programs might as well use rotary phones on the sidelines instead of headsets.

When teams have similar athletes, a modern offense will beat wing T pretty much every time (unless the D coord is completely inept).

But the truly sad part is watching parents and fans talk themselves into laughably believing that their program is "inventive" "creative" and "entertaining". The coaches aren't even bothering to teach the kids the most important part of this game, which all championship teams at the college and pro level must effectively use to be champions.
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Colleges use the spread because it takes about two practices to teach. They know there is no way to teach a proper Wing T to a bunch of mostly dumb kids in the time that they are allowed to spend with them. Just recruit the best "athletes" and try to out athlete the other team.

You need to understand why you are doing what you are doing, not just memorize plays to be affective in the Wing T.
 
RemoveHarbins said:
We definitely agree on the very last part. As I said, you are signaling you are giving up.

Running wing T is the equivalent of entering a horse and buggy in the Indy 500. These programs might as well use rotary phones on the sidelines instead of headsets.

When teams have similar athletes, a modern offense will beat wing T pretty much every time (unless the D coord is completely inept).

But the truly sad part is watching parents and fans talk themselves into laughably believing that their program is "inventive" "creative" and "entertaining". The coaches aren't even bothering to teach the kids the most important part of this game, which all championship teams at the college and pro level must effectively use to be champions.
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Huh????

Most of what you said makes zero sense.

I bet with the Wing-T Troy doesn't lose to Withrow in round 1 of playoffs.

The Wing T is a nightmare for defenses. As Pull to Trap mentioned, 90% of defenses self destruct. The defense comes off the field confused telling the coaches "I thought....." Instead of reading the keys they were told all week. It goes against their instincts.

Just ask a very much athletically superior LaSalle team how they liked that Edgewood Wing-T in 2016. ....As Edgewood gave them the most trouble in the playoffs and LaSalle was lucky to squeak out a win in a state championship run.
 
cincifbfan said:
Huh????

Most of what you said makes zero sense.

I bet with the Wing-T Troy doesn't lose to Withrow in round 1 of playoffs.

The Wing T is a nightmare for defenses. As Pull to Trap mentioned, 90% of defenses self destruct. The defense comes off the field confused telling the coaches "I thought....." Instead of reading the keys they were told all week. It goes against their instincts.

Just ask a very much athletically superior LaSalle team how they liked that Edgewood Wing-T in 2016. ....As Edgewood gave them the most trouble in the playoffs and LaSalle was lucky to squeak out a win in a state championship run
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That's right. LaSalle rolled everyone on to win state after getting out of round one with 4th and 4 stoppage of a driving Edgewood team down by two with 1:20 ish on the clock. That 2016 Edgewood team was busted up with injuries too.
 
According to your analysis Mentor should have several State Championships by now.

You must have missed last years finals when two run heavy teams won titles. Clinton Massie threw the ball about 45 times last season. Wishbone, not Wing T. But according to you the coaches aren't teaching them about football.
 
RemoveHarbins said:
A yes, one piece of anecdotal evidence from 6 years ago vs. the fact that every successful NFL, college, and in most cases high division state finalist programs all take the widely known truth that evolved offensive football is vastly superior, and that well-executed passing games will always improve the effectiveness of any running game, no matter how dominant. Fantastic argument.

Yes, we've already conceded and established that if you don't have a coach that knows how to coach defense against it or don't have the athletes to execute the game plan, you can win a lot of meaningless games with Wing T. But hey, those "we almost won" games look really great in the trophy case.
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These "antiquated offenses" seem to win 3 or so state championships in Ohio every year, whether it is the Wing-T, Wishbone, Double Wing, Triple Option, or Old School Pro-I. I believe last year Chardon won with the Wing-T, Clinton Massie with the Wishbone, Carey with Pro-I (And I think I recall some plays seeing the old Maryland I out of them).

Big colleges and pros have the best athletes, when you have superior athletes, you can have that sophisticated passing game you speak of. However, sophisticated passing is far different than the spread offense. There is a reason NFL teams run completely different schemes than colleges. It's the same reason high schools run different schemes too, you run what best fits your athletes. You wouldn't compare a high school varsity scheme to that of peewee football, so why do you insist on comparing high school schemes to that of NCAA and NFL (They don't even run anything close to the same things). The NFL has zero imagination in any aspect of the game...... they all run literally the exact same things, even on special teams.

Look, you run what works, and in Ohio success is determined by how well you run the ball...... PERIOD, the end. I could be wrong, but I don't recall any team making deep playoff runs passing the ball 60 times a game. Also, in Ohio high school football, the team with the better athletes overall win the vast majority of games..... With that being said, if you are at a disadvantage athletically, these antiquated offenses with "no imagination" give your team a great opportunity to even the playing field as much as possible. You take away the opportunities from your opponent to score and gain momentum by controlling the clock, and you have your opponent spend all of its time trying to defend something they haven't seen.

As I said, Region 8 belongs to either Winton Woods or LaSalle for the foreseeable future. It most likely won't matter what Troy runs; however, an offense like the Wing-T gives them their best shot at trying to dethrone one of those two in Region 8.
 
cincifbfan said:
These "antiquated offenses" seem to win 3 or so state championships in Ohio every year, whether it is the Wing-T, Wishbone, Double Wing, Triple Option, or Old School Pro-I. I believe last year Chardon won with the Wing-T, Clinton Massie with the Wishbone, Carey with Pro-I (And I think I recall some plays seeing the old Maryland I out of them).

Big colleges and pros have the best athletes, when you have superior athletes, you can have that sophisticated passing game you speak of. However, sophisticated passing is far different than the spread offense. There is a reason NFL teams run completely different schemes than colleges. It's the same reason high schools run different schemes too, you run what best fits your athletes. You wouldn't compare a high school varsity scheme to that of peewee football, so why do you insist on comparing high school schemes to that of NCAA and NFL (They don't even run anything close to the same things). The NFL has zero imagination in any aspect of the game...... they all run literally the exact same things, even on special teams.

Look, you run what works, and in Ohio success is determined by how well you run the ball...... PERIOD, the end. I could be wrong, but I don't recall any team making deep playoff runs passing the ball 60 times a game. Also, in Ohio high school football, the team with the better athletes overall win the vast majority of games..... With that being said, if you are at a disadvantage athletically, these antiquated offenses with "no imagination" give your team a great opportunity to even the playing field as much as possible. You take away the opportunities from your opponent to score and gain momentum by controlling the clock, and you have your opponent spend all of its time trying to defend something they haven't seen.

As I said, Region 8 belongs to either Winton Woods or LaSalle for the foreseeable future. It most likely won't matter what Troy runs; however, an offense like the Wing-T gives them their best shot at trying to dethrone one of tho
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Very well said, I would also say alot of teams don't have a QB to run the spread. I would also rather run a antiquated offense and win maybe 7 or 8 games then run the spread and win 3 or 4. I would bet that no high school kid, that loves football, would say that the ten regular season games are meaningless.

I also agree with most that its WW region. I'm sure they will have a few competitive games during the year. Then they'll most likely see a couple of the team in there league again in the playoffs.
 
the only larger school i’ve witnessed run a close to flawless Wing-T was Tippecanoe in the mid 2010s when Derge was the HC. other than that, i think a pro-style offense is going to be much superior at a school that has a lot of speed.

i think the WingT is a great offense at schools with smaller roster sizes who are trying to control the clock and rely on misdirection to keep games close.

The Wing-T is also a great option if you have a line that can get movement, a couple semi-speedy players who can get around the edges, and a QB with a less than capable arm.

the Wing-T is useless if it’s not coached right. as is any offense. but i don’t see many programs who are running it well anymore. i dislike when coaches have a system and stick to it no matter what. great programs will adjust year to year and play to their strength.
 
There are a lot of passing opportunities in the Wing T. Those of you that keep banging the "antiquated" drum must be talking Wing T but thinking triple option.
For example, Edgewood has several QB's with thousands of yards passing and they pass when they want. They also have had years where they had more than one running back with over a thousand yards rushing. Of course its nice to have both and they do a lot of the time, but you have to run the ball to win.
And what's all this "around the edges" BS? The wing T is all about misdirection and reverses to the middle. Hell, the Sweep is a play to the 6 hole. We only had two plays to the outside and only used them to set you up for the kill.
Some of you all don't really know chit about football........
 
RemoveHarbins said:
We definitely agree on the very last part. As I said, you are signaling you are giving up.

Running wing T is the equivalent of entering a horse and buggy in the Indy 500. These programs might as well use rotary phones on the sidelines instead of headsets.

When teams have similar athletes, a modern offense will beat wing T pretty much every time (unless the D coord is completely inept).

But the truly sad part is watching parents and fans talk themselves into laughably believing that their program is "inventive" "creative" and "entertaining". The coaches aren't even bothering to teach the kids the most important part of this game, which all championship teams at the college and pro level must effectively use to be champions.
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It appears someone has created another account after their other one was banned. It's just a matter of time before you start calling teams tomato cans.
 
PS.., An effective system that is taught early (k-6) and committed to is a beautiful thing. I often have conversations with the visiting coaches while running chains for the Fresh and JV. They are losing because they are teaching the "new" system to their team while the other QB is calling an audible from a que he received from his guard, like they've been doing since they were 10.
Its funny listening to them trying to figure out what is going on and making all the wrong adjustments.
 
RemoveHarbins said:
Well yes, because apparently Massillon people are allowed to do whatever the F they want to on this site, but anyone else gets in trouble the minute they start arguing with other people.

But hey, I don't blame you guys for noticing. When you can't attack the message, attacking the person instead is always the next best option.
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Did you see Hoser in the banished land?
 
RemoveHarbins said:
Not specifically, just a bunch of other stuff on the trash heap of where things from football past go to die. Banned posters. Leather helmets. Ceramic water jugs. Wing T offensive play books. And fans from goat herder programs talking about that one year they used to be great.

At the gates they told me I didn't belong there, and sent me back
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Don't sell yourself short, you belong and I'm confident it won't be long and you'll be going back!
 
mrsimp06 said:
How did LaSalle look during their scrimmage on Friday?
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It was 21-0 Fairfield in the 3rd when they started putting in jv guys. Lasalle is going to struggle on offense. Not much in the way of a passing game and their best run plays were from the qb. Had at least two turnovers. Their defense did an okay job containing FF running back but let Fisher get loose for big yards.
 
Garth Algar said:
It was 21-0 Fairfield in the 3rd when they started putting in jv guys. Lasalle is going to struggle on offense. Not much in the way of a passing game and their best run plays were from the qb. Had at least two turnovers. Their defense did an okay job containing FF running back but let Fisher get loose for big yards.
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Same QB as at the start of last season?
 
Garth Algar said:
It was 21-0 Fairfield in the 3rd when they started putting in jv guys. Lasalle is going to struggle on offense. Not much in the way of a passing game and their best run plays were from the qb. Had at least two turnovers. Their defense did an okay job containing FF running back but let Fisher get loose for big yards.
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LaSalle will figure it out, they are a quality program.
 
MickeyMantle said:
Probably, but sometimes you're at the mercy of your senior class. Extremely tough schedule too.
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Reminiscent of 2017
Couldn’t open holes the line couldn’t close holes linebackers Out of position just wasn’t a very good night from both sides of the wall. And with that schedule getting to the playoffs is not a lock.

coaches son look pretty good quarterback considering who he was playing against can we see another year like last year?

One thing I noticed the last two games was the lack of spirited attitude Pretty much looking down the whole team. Somber will be a good word But also like to know what the coaches were thinking … overall I think the kids tried the best they could but they just looked out of position the whole night
 
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TWILLKE said:
Reminiscent of 2017
Couldn’t open holes the line couldn’t close holes linebackers Out of position just wasn’t a very good t from both sides of the wall. And with that schedule getting to the playoffs is not a lock.

coaches son look pretty good quarterback considering who he was playing against can we see another year like last year?

One thing I noticed the last two games was the lack of spirited attitude Pretty much looking down the whole team. Somber will be a good word But also like to know what the coaches were thinking overall I think the kids tried the best they could but they just looked at a position the whole night
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You mean 2018 when they missed the playoffs? I haven't watched them at all this year, but that was my fear with the senior QB. He just didn't seem like the guy last year. Hopefully that's not the case. La Salle has had bad scrimmages before and wound up pretty good.

Did the coach's son play QB in the JV portion?

If 16 teams make the playoffs, it would be hard for La Salle to miss them.
 
Yes 2018. they had the transfer from Lakota West that didn’t work out well at all

let’s just hope last night was a real bad bump on the road and that they figure out what they need to do open up holes for the offense close the holes for the defense and cover the flanks

Mike has to read better and the two OLB’s Need to stay home and cover the outside better

Colerain is going to be a real strong test. My understanding is they had a couple of really good scrimmages against some very good teams …they are no push over this year
 
RemoveHarbins said:
Let's not get carried away here, WW defense improved dramatically with better coaching last year. I appreciate the respectful approach to coach Parker, but fact remains he was a poor defensive coach and WW upgraded significantly when he moved on.

In the 3 playoff years prior to last year (spanning 4 seasons, because they missed in 2019), they averaged giving up 24 points a game, and gave up more than 30 in 4 of 13 games. That's hardly solid.

The difference was quite noticeable last year.
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Here u weirdos go with the coach parker stuff
 
mrsimp06 said:
If I'm a betting men it'll be more triple option then wing t. Winton Woods ran the triple for years and crushed teams during the regular season and lost in the post season to teams that could slow the triple down. Hopefully the offense is only a temporary fix.
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Well they did win a state title running that offense so did colerain. They lost playoff games because of penalties mistakes and playing too much man coverage
 
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