You make the call. PI or not? NY at Fairland

Looks like PI to me. Safety makes contact with receiver (hook) before ball gets there.
Awful angle to see for sure, but I'm sure the ref can see it clear as day which is why he threw the flag.
Congrats to Fairfield on winning the game!
 
TigerPaw said:
If you need extra slow mo, a magnifying glass, and a psychology degree, you don't make that call in that situation. And that is aside from the key fact, which you can NOT argue, that it had no bearing on the interception.
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You completely missed my point....

One video shows a play that looks liked nothing illegal happened between the opponents.
Another shows that something illegal could have happened between the opponents

There is no video posted that allows anyone (coach, player, fan, official, officiating evaluator) to look at this play and say... without question......

Correct or Incorrect




TigerPaw said:
As a further aside, I do understand there are some who would negate a last play game winner on a borderline untucked shirt violation. While it may or may not be technically correct I just don't make that call. Only something very obvious and clearly impacting the play.
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Well, for starters....

"A jersey, unaltered from the manufacturer’s original design/production, and which shall be long enough to reach the top of the pants and shall be tucked in if longer "

In other words, it's not mandatory that jerseys are tucked in.....

That said, if the violation is detected after the ready for play but while the ball is dead, play should be stopped and the player is sent off for one down.

If the violation is detected during live ball action or the subsequent dead ball activity before the ready for play, the player can fix the problem without being sent out.

There is no penalty assessed to the offending team. If an official negates this play because of a uniform violation they aren't over officiating........ they are making something up.
 
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AllSports12 said:
There is no video posted that allows anyone (coach, player, fan, official, officiating evaluator) to look at this play and say... without question...... Correct or Incorrect
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Exactly. And for the purpose of teaching kids sportsmanship and respect, the ref making the call is right unless it's absolutely clear that he's not.

And if it's obviously clear that the ref made a mistake, then that's what you say. Refs make mistakes. Players make mistakes. Coaches make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. It's part of life, and it's an important lesson taught by the game. Swallow your bitter tears and take it like a man.
 
Thanks AllSports that was an exaggeration and not the point. I am sure you are aware of many excellent refs, and I have heard them often, whether basketball, football, or any sport, state they refrain from making a critical call in the last second unless it clearly impacts the play. I'm not trying to argue technicalities I just happen to agree with that view. Frankly even during games w/ infractions that occur way away from the play. Like the phantom clip call at the 40 while runner is crossing the goal.
 
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I have never officiated football, but I do baseball and wrestling. First, I have to completely agree that there is zero way to tell exactly what happened from the two videos I have seen, which is amazing in this day and age where everything is on camera, that no better angle exists, but oh well. So I will not, and can not, say whether the official got it wrong or not.

I only chime in about the "end of the game" call. If I see a violation of some sort, it doesn't matter if the game is ending, or it's the bottom of the 9th, you have to call it. My only thing is, "you better be sure". I called a balk not too long ago in an inter-squad college game, that scored the tying run late in the game. Of course one side wasn't happy, but it was the right call. My assignor just said, "are you 100% sure, b/c you better be if you're scoring a run, and extra sure if you're scoring the tying run (as opposed to a game going from 8 - 2 to 8 - 3 for example).

My point is, I imagine the official only threw the flag because they saw something, so I can't imagine NOTHING happened. You can argue about the severity of it, and the impact of it. I just hope the official is 100% sure, b/c if they just saw an arm drag across the body, no grip, no pull, no altering of course, you can't throw that flag.....the same as if I had a microcosm of movement on the pitcher that left room for being uncertain, I am not scoring the tying run in the 8th inning on a balk.

But if he was 100% sure, then I completely support the flag, as the situation doesn't negate the responsibility of players to follow the rules and the officials to enforce them.
 
Just to clarify, that was a long-winded way of saying that it is wrong to say that a situation should determine whether you call a foul, or it has to be more flagrant. The only thing that heightens if you're level of certainty...don't make a game-changing call on the last play if in a flash you "might have seen something" that can be called.
 
CoachHoversten said:
I have never officiated football, but I do baseball and wrestling. First, I have to completely agree that there is zero way to tell exactly what happened from the two videos I have seen, which is amazing in this day and age where everything is on camera, that no better angle exists, but oh well. So I will not, and can not, say whether the official got it wrong or not.

I only chime in about the "end of the game" call. If I see a violation of some sort, it doesn't matter if the game is ending, or it's the bottom of the 9th, you have to call it. My only thing is, "you better be sure". I called a balk not too long ago in an inter-squad college game, that scored the tying run late in the game. Of course one side wasn't happy, but it was the right call. My assignor just said, "are you 100% sure, b/c you better be if you're scoring a run, and extra sure if you're scoring the tying run (as opposed to a game going from 8 - 2 to 8 - 3 for example).

My point is, I imagine the official only threw the flag because they saw something, so I can't imagine NOTHING happened. You can argue about the severity of it, and the impact of it. I just hope the official is 100% sure, b/c if they just saw an arm drag across the body, no grip, no pull, no altering of course, you can't throw that flag.....the same as if I had a microcosm of movement on the pitcher that left room for being uncertain, I am not scoring the tying run in the 8th inning on a balk.

But if he was 100% sure, then I completely support the flag, as the situation doesn't negate the responsibility of players to follow the rules and the officials to enforce them.
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CoachHoversten said:
Just to clarify, that was a long-winded way of saying that it is wrong to say that a situation should determine whether you call a foul, or it has to be more flagrant. The only thing that heightens if you're level of certainty...don't make a game-changing call on the last play if in a flash you "might have seen something" that can be called.
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Two great posts from you, as usual.

Football officiating 101 (and, really, every sport has the same philosophy) teaches that if you aren't 100 percent sure you have a foul, the flag stays in the waistband.

Nowhere in football officiating 101 is it taught - "do not throw the flag late in the game because we need to let the kids decide it." If you pass on an obvious foul in crunch time - you have "decided the game" by not penalizing an illegal action. For some reason fanboys only cry "let the kids decide the game" when a flag is thrown as opposed to when one is not thrown - even though either decision by the official can be incorrect and have a significant impact (remember the Saints DPI non-call in the playoffs?).

Whether or not the ruling of DPI was correct, the back judge clearly had a reason to be 100 percent sure there was a foul committed. Without a better video it is simply irresponsible and unfair to assume his judgment was wrong.

The rules of the game, contrary to popular belief, apply for the entire 48 minutes.
 
TigerPaw said:
Thanks AllSports that was an exaggeration and not the point. I am sure you are aware of many excellent refs, and I have heard them often, whether basketball, football, or any sport, state they refrain from making a critical call in the last second unless it clearly impacts the play. I'm not trying to argue technicalities I just happen to agree with that view. Frankly even during games w/ infractions that occur way away from the play. Like the phantom clip call at the 40 while runner is crossing the goal.
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Hopefully, we are keeping the flag in our waistbands the entire game when a potential foul for holding or PI does not impact the play, not solely at the end of the game.
 
TigerPaw said:
Thanks AllSports that was an exaggeration and not the point. I am sure you are aware of many excellent refs, and I have heard them often, whether basketball, football, or any sport, state they refrain from making a critical call in the last second unless it clearly impacts the play. I'm not trying to argue technicalities I just happen to agree with that view. Frankly even during games w/ infractions that occur way away from the play. Like the phantom clip call at the 40 while runner is crossing the goal.
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Calling minor infractions away from the point of attack or the play in general and making critical calls at the end of a game are two entirely different animals.

The notion that good officials refrain from making critical calls at the end of a game is poppycock. It's announcer speak. Been at this for a good long while and over the years I have had the good fortune to get to know, work for, or work with some of the best at all levels. Never have I heard any of these men or women suggest this to be an attribute of a good official.

This comes from the mouths of TV announcers, some of them former players. People assign credibility to them solely because they are on TV. 99% of them haven't a clue what they are talking about.
 
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