GrappleKing
Member
In defense of TCC their band has been at about 8 since I went there in the late 2000’s.
A Simple Solution To The Competitive Balance Issue
- Thread starter Snowbelt Man
- Start date
Oil Filter
Well-known member
If there's no difference between divisions, let's have one true champion for all 700 schools.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Thats OHSAA. Instead of tackling the issue of recruiting head on, they add divisions and come up with CB.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Just do away with the playoffs, just have paper champions. Kills two birds with one stone no more manipulating numbers to fall in a certain division and the Paper Tigers can add another poll championship to their list of 50 plus.
simkon
Well-known member
I think they had about 50-60 kids in thr band in 2005 and it has been downhill ever since.
Soooo, some restrictions are okay?
Inoutsider
Member
Works so far for Indiana for the most part. The entire reason though was the parochials. Indianapolis Roncalli, Cathedral, Chatard, Ft. Wayne Luers, Bishop Snider., etc. I’d guesstimate these teams alone have near 50 state championships. It works well unless you’re Cathedral that consistently won titles in divisions 4-5 but I don’t think they have ever won one in division 6 where they’ve been placed several times in recent years. They’re competitive but it’s tough to string together a bunch of playoff victories against schools that are 6 or 7 times bigger than your smallish 700 boys enrollment. With Indiana rules in Ohio TCC and Hoban would have been D1 schools for the last few years
bob99
Well-known member
I can not understand that. I always heard that Catholics were big into rhythm.
MassillonK1D330
Well-known member
Tbh tho nobody should have a problem with Glenville. In my personal opinion I think people that have a problem with Glenville being D4 is soft I do think it is strange that they are that low because we know they are good but just beat them. We all know it's going to be hard it's not going to be easy but that's what makes sports fun when the juggernaut gets beat by the underdog Hilliard Davidson and Loveland didn't have a problem doing it but because the country schools can't do it everybody is in uproar
is sad
MassillonK1D330
Well-known member
I mean I hate to say it but oh well kirtland is good I'm pretty sure they don't wouldn't have a problem trying to figure a way to win. I mean if you want to be technical Glenville by enrollment standards is D4 but because they're good at football everybody wants to punish them and put them in D1,D2 or D3 which I don't think they will have a problem competing at all I just think this whole argument is stupid
James x2
Well-known member
Let them play Kirtland then for a ring. How's that going to play out? You think Tiger and those kids who give everything (starting the day after the title game) with those workouts would accept 15-0 and a yearly beatdown by Ginn Academy? Hey thanks for the effort but we need to work harder!!!! Thats what these other schools are facing. I would rather watch Glenville play Massillon,Hoban, etc for the title. Lets have a King of the Hill game.
James x2
Well-known member
They would have a huge problem with the size and speed alone. Think Kirtland would beat TCC this weekend?
Enough with the Glenville. If there is an issue people should contact the OHSAA. I don't see anybody or any schools doing that. People rather come on here and cry like little girls. If Glenville was gone you would then go after Alter or Perkins or whoever the next best team is. The truth is there are some really good programs in the lower divisions. Unfortunately your "opinions" don't matter. The OHSAA obviously feels Glenville is playing where they belong. Ted Ginn for the 1000th time did not open the school so Glenville could play in D4. The City of Cleveland does not spend money they do not have to keep Glenville open so they can compete in D4. I cannot believe grown a** adults think everything revolves around sports. Glenville will play where ever they are told to play. The OHSAA says D4 is where they belong. If you feel differently do something other then cry - your beating a horse that's been dead a long time.
CrusaderZip0004
Well-known member
Just scrap it. It will never be fixed, just moved to someone else.
The same old lame excuse. Don't penalize teams who have success. The issue in todays hs football is that most of the teams who do have continued success recruit and cheat to win and then drub teams who don't cheat and steal players from other teams. I know some great teams dont most of the state success teams do. So move up all the cheaters and let them cheat and play other teams that cheat as well. this applies to the open enrollment scam in Glenville. If a great team moves up and gets drubbed, then they move back down using a 4 year average. 95% of teams in Ohio have zero shot of a state title anyway. Let them play similar teams and dont call it a state title. Call them regional ones. This will make all divisions competitive unlike the same 10-20 teams that win all the state titles anyway.
I don't think most of the successful teams cheat. I know for a fact that a school like Kirtland does not recruit and that the kids you see on the field are the same ones that played together as kids. Those kids get exceptional coaching and the strength program is second to none. How many schools lift 350+ days a year ? I'm guessing not many. A program like Kirtland should not be punished for being small and successful. People do not realize how small that school is and how hard those kids work. When Ursuline was the big dog in their division the Hornets could not get passed them. They kept working and developing their program until they eventually beat them. There are no shortcuts when you do it right. If you have an issue with recruiting and open enrollment - make your school open enrollment. Nothing is stopping you.
Last edited:
Kirtland and South Range and the MAC schools dont cheat but why should they not get a chance to compete with d-4 or 3 teams. South Range hung in with Green just fine who is a d-2 regional finalist. Kirtland should get the opportunity to play Glenville and other like Toledo CC. Enjoy the fun other teams get to do. Almost all the state teams in d-4 and up cheat and recruit.
BleedingO&B
Member
I completely agree...there's been a lot of talk about LC's CB numbers but truth be told....it's the program that creates their success. YES, we have some open enrolled kids on the team but they have been in the program since their freshman year or longer. The coaches, work ethic, discipline, etc... have built this team. There are probably few programs in the state that push their players as hard as we do. Community support is a big component of success as well....our village lives and breathes football and it starts young.
raising4daughters
Well-known member
If the same teams are winning all the state titles but have no real unfair advantage other than a better program and coaching, then what's the problem? Take Mentor, Kirtland, Marion Local, and Avon for example. They're always good and there's nothing preventing other publics from building up similar programs.....except for a lack of commitment from the district, parents, etc. I do NOT like the idea of forcing them up divisions just because they win. If schools like these win all the regional or state titles, good for them.
I'd like to see more correction for the distinct advantage that open enrollment schools, public or private, have. Competitive balance corrects for some, but not all of this.
bob99
Well-known member
They should re-bracket the games at the finals. Have Glenville play Toledo Central Catholic, Perry play Marion Local, Alter play Watterson, Liberty Center play Kirkland and Versailles play Dalton. I attended all 7 games last year. 4 returning State Champions this year and 2 of them have dropped a division. 2 returning state runner-ups that lost to the stale champions who have dropped a division this year. Massillon vs Hoban is the only game I consider must see this year.
You can't count boys and think all areas are equal. Some schools are just football schools and some are just bad. Head coaches at the end of the year should vote on top teams to stay the same or move up and bottom tops to stay or move down. This way balance is voted on and teams have to earn their path to state against equal competition. We should not see so many repeat or the same teams every year in the playoffs regional and state.
Just because you have a personal ax to grind with schools like TCC and Glenville - why punish small schools like the MAC, Kirtland,Mogadore,South Range,etc. That is not fair to them. So their reward for working hard and developing into good players is to play schools twice their size ? Is that fair. People work hard to build a program and you want to reward the mediocre teams. Not happy with your results - get better. Do something different. That is the issue nowadays. People rather lower the bar and make it easier then to raise themselves up. There is a reason the small schools I mentioned above are successful and it's not recruiting or cheating. I'm sure if you dive into those teams you will see multiple things they do that your schools program does not.
I've always wondered if some percentage factor as a result of playoff wins may be the best "competitive balance" adjustment. Maybe adding 5% for each playoff win over the past three years?
So for example, a Marion Local (if they win this week) would have 18 playoff wins over the past three years, so that'd be an addition of 90% of their post-CB (current rules) number (using proper rounding procedures). Assuming no change, their CB number would go from 109 to 190% of that, or 207. After the title games I may just run the numbers for all seven divisions just to see how many teams would have a major change (MSML probably would move to Division 5 under this theory, as other teams would also have percentage jumps - the top D5 school under CB has 205 right now).
The biggest flaw with this sort of system, of course, is that the bottom division (maybe two divisions) would be a fair bit weaker than they currently are.
So for example, a Marion Local (if they win this week) would have 18 playoff wins over the past three years, so that'd be an addition of 90% of their post-CB (current rules) number (using proper rounding procedures). Assuming no change, their CB number would go from 109 to 190% of that, or 207. After the title games I may just run the numbers for all seven divisions just to see how many teams would have a major change (MSML probably would move to Division 5 under this theory, as other teams would also have percentage jumps - the top D5 school under CB has 205 right now).
The biggest flaw with this sort of system, of course, is that the bottom division (maybe two divisions) would be a fair bit weaker than they currently are.
Crimson and Black
Well-known member
I like snowbelts idea. That said, I’d just prefer that you play at the school where you live. If you transfer you sit out a year. Obviously you would have to take into account “legitimate” transfers based on job change in the family, family moving from one district to another etc. I just don’t like the idea of a kid being able to pic and choose where they play ball. It seems crazy that, let’s say a kid from Cleveland is attending school and playing ball in Akron. In short, picking the school you attend for football reasons only should be discouraged. Right now it is heavily encouraged.
Crimson and Black
Well-known member
It already is heavily discouraged not heavily encouraged. Other than that I don't see alot of difference between sitting out after 5 games vs. whole year. (Unless you physically move like you say).