eastisbest
Well-known member
lol, you got that from a book of rules somewhere? That's true no more than a prop car is a plastic bag. It's a gun, real, fake, squirt, finger pointed out, used as a prop.
Alec Baldwin
- Thread starter Auggie
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lol, you got that from a book of rules somewhere? That's true no more than a prop car is a plastic bag. It's a gun, real, fake, squirt, finger pointed out, used as a prop.
Head Linesman
Well-known member
prop is short for property, sense 3,
an article or object used in a play or motion picture.
says nothing about non functioning. the helicopter in twilight zone that decapitated Vic Morrow was a prop. a great big one.
an article or object used in a play or motion picture.
says nothing about non functioning. the helicopter in twilight zone that decapitated Vic Morrow was a prop. a great big one.
Has anyone asked, how many times had they run through this scene where Baldwin was to fire the weapon? Was this the first time? While I think most Hollywood "Elites" are clueless D-Bags, I cannot believe anyone would intentionally kill someone on set, using only one real bullet out of how any fake bullets. Maybe Baldwin is so egotistical that he doesn't believe he can do any wrong, therefore not checking the weapon handed to him, but as everyone else has said, always check the gun before you use it. The movie John Wick comes to mind for fire arm safety. Those movies, while awesome, use so many fake bullets and nothing of consequence on those sets. Is there a "Baldwin was set up" conspiracy? If so, wouldn't the set up person put more than one real bullet in the gun?
queencitybuckeye
Well-known member
I'll let this go as you won't let go of the idea that placing the adjective "prop" in front of the word "gun" somehow absolves Baldwin of blame. For a final time, a basic set of facts are:
- There is a set of cardinal rules of gun safety.
- While not codified in any jurisdiction to my knowledge, those rules are used in gun cases in courts in this country every single day.
- Among those rules are "Always treat any gun as if it is loaded, unless you yourself have verified that it is not". IOW, "I didn't know the gun was loaded" is not an excuse, no matter how many "experts" are on the scene. There are no exemptions to this rule.
Have a great day.
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winbypin
Well-known member
For a close up shot of someone loading the weapon maybe?
eastisbest
Well-known member
It wasn't a gun. It was a prop. You need to find the cardinal rules of prop safety. Glad I could help.
In a court of law defendants are judged to as to whether they broke the codified law, or not.
"Rules" like measure twice, cut once,
the 5 second rule,
keep your hands, feet, and objects to yourself,
a watched pot never boils,
look left, then right, then left again,
haste makes waste,
raise you hand and wait to be recognized,
and treat every gun like it is loaded,
do not apply.
queencitybuckeye
Well-known member
They widely accepted rules of firearms handling actually DO apply as evidence of the crime as written in the code. Shooting someone "accidentally" without checking that the gun was not loaded is not a crime, but is evidence of a crime. These rules, not platitudes as you're trying to compare them with ARE evidence of various crimes.
Only prop crimes, not real crimes.
Note: I believe Baldwin is guilty of a criminal act, but I do not know the specifics of New Mexico law. I am positive he will not be convicted in a court of law of violating "widely accepted rules of firearms handling."
queencitybuckeye
Well-known member
Which is exactly what I said. However, people ARE convicted of crimes where one of the main pieces of evidence is not following these rules.
Aren’t you actually demanding that the user determine the gun to be properly loaded with a blank AND placing upon the user the responsibility of knowing how a blank “looks”? Put another way, even if I know something about guns, do I know whether or not a blank looks different from a live round? And how it looks different?
By your standard, much of all human activity would come to a screeching halt.
Now, if you wanted to maintain your harangue on Baldwin’s guilt, might I suggest:
- he shouldn’t point guns at people OR
- he ran an unsafe movie set (producer)
queencitybuckeye
Well-known member
If they were using blanks, it's obvious visually as a blank round has no bullet (the thing that leaves the gun and flies downrange). Blanks make noise and flame like a real round but that's all that exits the gun.
If they were using dummy rounds, one can tell the difference by giving them a shake. The gunpowder normally in the cartridge is replaced by BBs. Dummy rounds rattle when you shake them.
Why do you assume everyone should know that?
queencitybuckeye
Well-known member
I assume that if one knows a gun can fire a projectile at high speeds and cause major damage or death to living things, that one has the responsibility to ensure to the degree possible that they aren't going to do so by accident.
If they were supposedly using blanks that day, the only reason Baldwin didn't know there was a live round in the gun was because he didn't look. If they were using dummy rounds, more of the blame (but not all) should go to the armorer as she didn't do her job properly. This is something that everyone who was handling a gun on that set needed to know.
Nonsense.
queencitybuckeye
Well-known member
You might want to consider trying to understand the difference between charges and evidence.
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eastisbest
Well-known member
"needed" is not "required." Are you arguing what should be or what is?
The only evidence is that which can verify what Baldwin did or did not do.
Somebody's rules of gun safety is evidence of nothing.
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queencitybuckeye
Well-known member
His (or anyone's) violation of those rules IS evidence.
Of what?
queencitybuckeye
Well-known member
Negligence.
Negligence of what?
queencitybuckeye
Well-known member
Criminal negligence (sometimes called culpable negligence) refers to a defendant who acts in disregard of a serious risk of harm that a reasonable person in the same situation would have perceived. Another common definition includes an act that amounts to a gross deviation from the general standard of care.
Special prosecutor in 'Rust' case drops firearm enhancement charge against Alec Baldwin
The manslaughter charges against Alec Baldwin relating to the 2021 fatal shooting on the set of the movie "Rust" have been downgraded by prosecutors in New Mexico, which will reduce the prison time the actor could face for the death of the movie's cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins.
edition.cnn.com
The comments connected to this suggests that the prosecutor‘s office is out of their league. You think long and hard about how to charge someone in a high profile case and you run with it.
BlueDevil2022
Active member
money talks and bullshyt walksSpecial prosecutor in 'Rust' case drops firearm enhancement charge against Alec Baldwin
The manslaughter charges against Alec Baldwin relating to the 2021 fatal shooting on the set of the movie "Rust" have been downgraded by prosecutors in New Mexico, which will reduce the prison time the actor could face for the death of the movie's cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins.
1. With the old charge, if convicted of all aspects, he faced at least 5 years of prison. Now if convicted of all aspects of the new charge, he faces a maximum of 18 months and could get probation. A dramatic reduction…
2. This case goes to a judge for a preliminary hearing soon. There is no grand jury on this case. A prelim is a public event (unlike a grand jury presentation) and the State has to establish that a crime has been committed to the standard of “probable cause”…a much lower standard than trial’s “beyond a reasonable doubt”. However, there isn’t a lot of mystery to this case that would be revealed in a full trial, and a judge can throw this out if he/she wants to at the prelim…probably won’t get 2nd guessed much if that’s what happens.
2. This case goes to a judge for a preliminary hearing soon. There is no grand jury on this case. A prelim is a public event (unlike a grand jury presentation) and the State has to establish that a crime has been committed to the standard of “probable cause”…a much lower standard than trial’s “beyond a reasonable doubt”. However, there isn’t a lot of mystery to this case that would be revealed in a full trial, and a judge can throw this out if he/she wants to at the prelim…probably won’t get 2nd guessed much if that’s what happens.
brianwr112
Well-known member
No way the judge throws it out. Here's your Probable Cause...Baldwin pulled trigger on gun, bullet killed person. Judges don't throw out criminal cases that include a death. The prosecution would immediately appeal to the State Supreme Court and most certainly win sending it back to the lower court.
I haven't looked up all the details but with the max sentence being 18 months I wouldn't be surprised now if there's a deal worked out that includes no jail time. Maybe even an Alford plea
I would narrow that some...
I don't think he has criminal responsibility as the actor/shooter. I feel the same way about his role as producer but I think he has slightly more criminal exposure in that regard.
He MAY, in his role as producer, have responsibility in civil wrongful death lawsuit for running a sloppy movie production. I'm sure there's insurance for that, though.