Red Wave Fizzles: What are the Implications?

[CatAlum]

We're not hopelessly divided...we're divided. Many/most of the electorate have lost an appreciation for the center and the core values that produce a strong center and a more stable government and political culture...

- A real consideration for someone else's point of view;
- A belief that "compromise" is not a dirty word;
- An adult's understanding that governance is about give and take and that problems/issues...and how to deal with them, is not simple stuff;
- the willingness to walk around in someone else's shoes

If you want to see the adults back in charge, today is a hopeful day. Maybe this is Napoleon at Moscow or Hitler at Stalingrad.

 

[lotr10]

It was likely the worst under performance in mid term history. Just average would have been a 28 seat pick up. The average when the president is under 50% approval is over 40 seats. No amount of lipstick will make this pig anything but super ugly.

You're comparing apples to oranges. I'm guessing that the days of midterm wave elections are coming to a end. In 2018 the republicans gained seats in the Senate and added governorship's. More and more tribal loyalty will trump candidate quality.

Seems to me that BOTH party's need to adjust to this new reality and plan accordingly. And the first order of business is how the hell do you govern a nation with two tribes snarling at one another? And for the record I approve of the hostility because there is no way in hell I'm going to accept the rot of a culture that the democrats represent.

 

[Old142]

It was likely the worst under performance in mid term history. Just average would have been a 28 seat pick up. The average when the president is under 50% approval is over 40 seats. No amount of lipstick will make this pig anything but super ugly.

I disagree ...there have been many changes in the demographics since 2016 election, including Covid. Using old formulas aren't very realistic in such a divided Country. Look at Ohio and Florida , and the MANY RAZOR thin losses, Democrats will try to paint a different picture but the momentum is definitely in the republicans favor heading into 2024.....I'm not exactly shocked OZ and Heschel lost, they were horrible choices. More importantly Kemp ..Desantis ....Vance ...were HUGE.

 

[Crusaders]

Too many voting party lines. Ballots don’t tell anything about what people are voting for, just names and party affiliation

 

[ProV1]

First thing is Republican voters need to get over themselves. The "I dont like that guy so I'm not voting for him" attitude needs to stop. Democrat voters are loyal to party, Republican voters are loyal to candidates. It cost us in 2018 and 2022

That's your take away after spouting like an idiot for the last two weeks? I thought you could not look any dumber than just getting up this morning after that disaster. Instead, you post that stupid excuse.

 

[ProV1]

I disagree ...there have been many changes in the demographics since 2016 election, including Covid. Using old formulas aren't very realistic in such a divided Country. Look at Ohio and Florida , and the MANY RAZOR thin losses, Democrats will try to paint a different picture but the momentum is definitely in the republicans favor heading into 2024.....I'm not exactly shocked OZ and Heschel lost, they were horrible choices. More importantly Kemp ..Desantis ....Vance ...were HUGE.

The Dems are likely going to pick up a governor. They will likely hold or pick up a Senate seat. House losses will be single digits. There is no objective way to call this anything other than a melt down by almost any measure.

 

[I enjoy wrestling]

We're not hopelessly divided...we're divided. Many/most of the electorate have lost an appreciation for the center and the core values that produce a strong center and a more stable government and political culture...

- A real consideration for someone else's point of view;
- A belief that "compromise" is not a dirty word;
- An adult's understanding that governance is about give and take and that problems/issues...and how to deal with them, is not simple stuff;
- the willingness to walk around in someone else's shoes

If you want to see the adults back in charge, today is a hopeful day. Maybe this is Napoleon at Moscow or Hitler at Stalingrad.

What is there to compromise on? List them, anything. I'm all ears. You watched the PA senate debate?

 

[CatAlum]

First thing is Republican voters need to get over themselves. The "I dont like that guy so I'm not voting for him" attitude needs to stop. Democrat voters are loyal to party, Republican voters are loyal to candidates. It cost us in 2018 and 2022

The Ohio Supreme Court races (party affiliation attached to candidates for the first time) are a solid argument that you're dead wrong.

 

[ProV1]

Too many voting party lines. Ballots don’t tell anything about what people are voting for, just names and party affiliation

Wrong. The data will show more split tickets than any of the last couple of elections.

 

[Old142]

The Dems are likely going to pick up a governor. They will likely hold or pick up a Senate seat. House losses will be single digits. There is no objective way to call this anything other than a melt down by almost any measure.

The house is enough to stop Obiden further from destroying our economy with his referendums that pander to his freeloading voter base.

 

[I enjoy wrestling]

The Dems are likely going to pick up a governor. They will likely hold or pick up a Senate seat. House losses will be single digits. There is no objective way to call this anything other than a melt down by almost any measure.

In the end you andothers own it.

 

[lotr10]

We're not hopelessly divided...we're divided. Many/most of the electorate have lost an appreciation for the center and the core values that produce a strong center and a more stable government and political culture...

- A real consideration for someone else's point of view;
- A belief that "compromise" is not a dirty word;
- An adult's understanding that governance is about give and take;
- the willingness to walk around in someone else's shoes

If you want to see the adults back in charge, today is a hopeful day. Maybe this is Napoleon at Moscow or Hitler at Stalingrad.

I disagree. You to easily discount the forces of hundreds of thousands of years of human evolutionary biology. We are a species hardwired for tribalism. It's in our basic genetic code.

- You talk "give and take" but it dissapeared from the left decades ago. There is a reason Libertarians drift towards the right.

- Compromise is a dirty word when it's only in one direction.

- The governing model of leftism is totalitarian. Their ideology can't tolerate dissenting POV. There can be no middle ground when facing off against this extremist philosophy.

I used to think that those that expressed the POV you do were at least honorable people who wanted the best for the county. I am no longer under that illusion. I think you and others use the charade of moderation to crush opposition to the culture you want to create. Your appeals to the goodness of people are a way to disarm them.

 

[I enjoy wrestling]

I disagree. You to easily discount the forces of hundreds of thousands of years of human evolutionary biology. We are a species hardwired for tribalism. It's in our basic genetic code.

- You talk "give and take" but it dissapeared from the left decades ago. There is a reason Libertarians drift towards the right.

- Compromise is a dirty word when it's only in one direction.

- The governing model of leftism is totalitarian. Their ideology can't tolerate dissenting POV. There can be no middle ground when facing off against this extremist philosophy.

I used to think that those that expressed the POV you do were at least honorable people who wanted the best for the county. I am no longer under that illusion. I think you and others use the charade of moderation to crush opposition to the culture you want to create. Your appeals to the goodness of people are a way to disarm them.

Like the Garden of Eden. Imo

 

[lotr10]

First thing is Republican voters need to get over themselves. The "I dont like that guy so I'm not voting for him" attitude needs to stop. Democrat voters are loyal to party, Republican voters are loyal to candidates. It cost us in 2018 and 2022

In a deeply tribal world we better figure out quick that our way of life will only survive if we are loyal to our tribe.

 

[ProV1]

You're comparing apples to oranges. I'm guessing that the days of midterm wave elections are coming to a end. In 2018 the republicans gained seats in the Senate and added governorship's. More and more tribal loyalty will trump candidate quality.

Seems to me that BOTH party's need to adjust to this new reality and plan accordingly. And the first order of business is how the hell do you govern a nation with two tribes snarling at one another? And for the record I approve of the hostility because there is no way in hell I'm going to accept the rot of a culture that the democrats represent.

Nonsense. You are grasping for explanations and not using any objective or substantive data. I'm betting there will be more split tickets in this election than any of the last couple which would completely debunk your partisan theory.

 

[IVCguy]

That red wave turned into a gentle, ankle-lapping swell. Lol.

Certainly not a disaster, but not the national soul cleansing I was hoping for. But on the Republican side it may help them to clean up some problems on their side. We knew they had an establishment leadership problem and a Trump problem. It's not clear to me whether these results will provide a decisive basis to solve those problems.

The basic conditions of this election never changed: Biden's energy and economic policies have delivered high energy costs and high inflation. A reasonable expectation is that those issues alone create a tier one of issues that voters will punish - even if other issues have to take a back seat. It doesnt make sense for people to say, "I dont care if i cant afford to live, but the most important thing is that unborn children cant live". Then you throw in absurd criminal justice policies and the open border policy, and Dems should be in deep, deep trouble.

I assumed abortion and climate change would be tier two issues, but it surprised me in the exit polling how many people made them tier one issues. The Dems war on fossil fuels clearly are a primary cause of gasoline and heating costs, but either voters didn't connect high energy prices to Dem green policies that Dems voted for or they are willing to pay those prices to help Biden and the Dems save the earth. Lol. Very surprising.

We are a very divided country - at the risk of being Captain Obvious. That means elections will continue to be very contentious and power will ebb and flow, but that's our system. Leftism, socialism, and wokism isn't going to voluntarily roll over and die. We are going to have to defeat it with reason, good messaging, good candidates, and good politics.

I do believe that the silver lining with Dems being in power is that people get to see that their isms don't work. Evidently, 21 months of it wasn't enough for some of our fellow citizens.

Finally I was bowled over that Fetterman won - literally a significantly brain-damaged man who is incapable of fully serving right now and probably permanently. But that says something about Oz and carpetbagging.

But the biggest shock was Katie Hobbs leading, probably winning the governorship in Arizona. She is the dumbest candidate I have ever seen and ran a horrible campaign. But this one is understandable. This is what happens when Californians flee leftist policies that ruined their state, invade another state, bring their politics with them, and vote the same way that ruined their former state.

 

[CatAlum]

I disagree. You to easily discount the forces of hundreds of thousands of years of human evolutionary biology. We are a species hardwired for tribalism. It's in our basic genetic code.

- You talk "give and take" but it dissapeared from the left decades ago. There is a reason Libertarians drift towards the right.

- Compromise is a dirty word when it's only in one direction.

- The governing model of leftism is totalitarian. Their ideology can't tolerate dissenting POV. There can be no middle ground when facing off against this extremist philosophy.

I used to think that those that expressed the POV you do were at least honorable people who wanted the best for the county. I am no longer under that illusion. I think you and others use the charade of moderation to crush opposition to the culture you want to create. Your appeals to the goodness of people are a way to disarm them.

Well, this is classic kooky right tripe. Isn't the whole "thing" about civilization that we understand our basic nature and build systems and structures to help make us better. Your take has us still living as hunter/gatherers.

When I talk about give and take, I recognize that both sides need a trip to the woodshed.

Your comments identify you as a right-wing extremist...akin to those on the far left that you despise. As people serious about governance and a stable society, we need to marginalize you (which was done pretty effectively until recently...so we will drive you back into your basement...maybe turn off your power!)....and do the same to whacko lefty/commies and get back to a society where that middle 60% (on both sides of the middle) run the country.

 

[ProV1]

The house is enough to stop Obiden further from destroying our economy with his referendums that pander to his freeloading voter base.

Biden already has the most meaningful legislation passed. What Biden should do now is go for immigration reform and let the GOP House kill it. Nice set up for 2024.

 

[I enjoy wrestling]

Nonsense. You are grasping for explanations and not using any objective or substantive data. I'm betting there will be more split tickets in this election than any of the last couple which would completely debunk your partisan theory.

You and your ilk own this. Take this anchor and swim. Feel the burn

 

[bob99]

Too many voting party lines. Ballots don’t tell anything about what people are voting for, just names and party affiliation

No strong reason for Independents to support either party. Don't look at party affiliation. Just vote for who you think will cause the least damage.
Personally I was more concerned with the local election.

 

[bob99]

In a deeply tribal world we better figure out quick that our way of life will only survive if we are loyal to our tribe.

Better still, try to find middle ground and work to reunite our nation.

 

[Crusaders]

Wrong. The data will show more split tickets than any of the last couple of elections.

No it will not

 

[ProV1]

That red wave turned into a gentle, ankle-lapping swell. Lol.

Certainly not a disaster, but not the national soul cleansing I was hoping for. But on the Republican side it may help them to clean up some problems on their side. We knew they had an establishment leadership problem and a Trump problem. It's not clear to me whether these results will provide a decisive basis to solve those problems.

The basic conditions of this election never changed: Biden's energy and economic policies have delivered high energy costs and high inflation. A reasonable expectation is that those issues alone create a tier one of issues that voters will punish - even if other issues have to take a back seat. It doesnt make sense for people to say, "I dont care if i cant afford to live, but the most important thing is that unborn children cant live". Then you throw in absurd criminal justice policies and the open border policy, and Dems should be in deep, deep trouble.

I assumed abortion and climate change would be tier two issues, but it surprised me in the exit polling how many people made them tier one issues. The Dems war on fossil fuels clearly are a primary cause of gasoline and heating costs, but either voters didn't connect high energy prices to Dem green policies that Dems voted for or they are willing to pay those prices to help Biden and the Dems save the earth. Lol. Very surprising.

We are a very divided country - at the risk of being Captain Obvious. That means elections will continue to be very contentious and power will ebb and flow, but that's our system. Leftism, socialism, and wokism isn't going to voluntarily roll over and die. We are going to have to defeat it with reason, good messaging, good candidates, and good politics.

I do believe that the silver lining with Dems being in power is that people get to see that their isms don't work. Evidently, 21 months of it wasn't enough for some of our fellow citizens.

Finally I was bowled over that Fetterman won - literally a significantly brain-damaged man who is incapable of fully serving right now and probably permanently. But that says something about Oz and carpetbagging.

But the biggest shock was Katie Hobbs leading, probably winning the governorship in Arizona. She is the dumbest candidate I have ever seen and ran a horrible campaign. But this one is understandable. This is what happens when Californians flee leftist policies that ruined their state, invade another state, bring their politics with them, and vote the same way that ruined their former state.

Great rant. Hobbs may be dumb but Lake is a MAGA, election denying c u next Tuesday. BTW ... she may still win.

 

[ProV1]

No it will not

See Georgia, NY, WI.

 

[chs1971]

Well, this is classic kooky right tripe. Isn't the whole "thing" about civilization that we understand our basic nature and build systems and structures to help make us better. Your take has us still living as hunter/gatherers.

When I talk about give and take, I recognize that both sides need a trip to the woodshed.

Your comments identify you as a right-wing extremist...akin to those on the far left that you despise. As people serious about governance and a stable society, we need to marginalize you (which was done pretty effectively until recently...so we will drive you back into your basement...maybe turn off your power!)....and do the same to whacko lefty/commies and get back to a society where that middle 60% (on both sides of the middle) run the country.

So is anyone who knows leftist totalitarianism is a bad idea a right-wing extremist, or just lotr10?

 

[CatAlum]

I also have hope that politicians like, say, Ron Johnson (assuming he hangs onto his narrow lead) will learn that there is a price to pay for getting into bed with MAGA. Maybe it "curbs his enthusiasm" for that kind of stuff and causes him to realize that there are people to the left of MAGA who need to be considered (about 70-75% of the population).

 

[CatAlum]

So is anyone who knows leftist totalitarianism is a bad idea a right-wing extremist, or just lotr10?

Throw your bombs all you want. It has taken awhile, but the electorate is finally tiring of it. Welcome to the gates of Stalingrad...

 

[I enjoy wrestling]

That red wave turned into a gentle, ankle-lapping swell. Lol.

Certainly not a disaster, but not the national soul cleansing I was hoping for. But on the Republican side it may help them to clean up some problems on their side. We knew they had an establishment leadership problem and a Trump problem. It's not clear to me whether these results will provide a decisive basis to solve those problems.

The basic conditions of this election never changed: Biden's energy and economic policies have delivered high energy costs and high inflation. A reasonable expectation is that those issues alone create a tier one of issues that voters will punish - even if other issues have to take a back seat. It doesnt make sense for people to say, "I dont care if i cant afford to live, but the most important thing is that unborn children cant live". Then you throw in absurd criminal justice policies and the open border policy, and Dems should be in deep, deep trouble.

I assumed abortion and climate change would be tier two issues, but it surprised me in the exit polling how many people made them tier one issues. The Dems war on fossil fuels clearly are a primary cause of gasoline and heating costs, but either voters didn't connect high energy prices to Dem green policies that Dems voted for or they are willing to pay those prices to help Biden and the Dems save the earth. Lol. Very surprising.

We are a very divided country - at the risk of being Captain Obvious. That means elections will continue to be very contentious and power will ebb and flow, but that's our system. Leftism, socialism, and wokism isn't going to voluntarily roll over and die. We are going to have to defeat it with reason, good messaging, good candidates, and good politics.

I do believe that the silver lining with Dems being in power is that people get to see that their isms don't work. Evidently, 21 months of it wasn't enough for some of our fellow citizens.

Finally I was bowled over that Fetterman won - literally a significantly brain-damaged man who is incapable of fully serving right now and probably permanently. But that says something about Oz and carpetbagging.

But the biggest shock was Katie Hobbs leading, probably winning the governorship in Arizona. She is the dumbest candidate I have ever seen and ran a horrible campaign. But this one is understandable. This is what happens when Californians flee leftist policies that ruined their state, invade another state, bring their politics with them, and vote the same way that ruined their former state.

Fetterman is unbelievable, just watch the debate tape. Trump is done as future President. Florida provided the roadmap. Killing babies is more important than buying food and gasoline. We now have a roadmap fraught with peril. I'm still trying to figure out the difference between Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, Michigan, Arizona,
Georgia. Look at the Demographics. Fetterman can win in Pa and Walker loses in Georgia?

 

[I enjoy wrestling]

I also have hope that politicians like, say, Ron Johnson (assuming he hangs onto his narrow lead) will learn that there is a price to pay for getting into bed with MAGA. Maybe it "curbs his enthusiasm" for that kind of stuff and causes him to realize that there are people to the left of MAGA who need to be considered (about 75% of the population).

You forget the election from 2020? Middle ground huh?

 

[cjb5656]

Well, this is classic kooky right tripe. Isn't the whole "thing" about civilization that we understand our basic nature and build systems and structures to help make us better. Your take has us still living as hunter/gatherers.

When I talk about give and take, I recognize that both sides need a trip to the woodshed.

Your comments identify you as a right-wing extremist...akin to those on the far left that you despise. As people serious about governance and a stable society, we need to marginalize you (which was done pretty effectively until recently...so we will drive you back into your basement...maybe turn off your power!)....and do the same to whacko lefty/commies and get back to a society where that middle 60% (on both sides of the middle) run the country.

You might disagree with his take, but you are missing his point. His point, as I read it, is there is no 60% in the middle. Only a small percent who don’t clearly fall into a left or right camp, thus major national division.