Can we talk about the irrationality of the people that “say” they block people and then act like they don’t read their posts?Trey or Pboy must be at it again??Great post!
Beacons of light and closing/consolidating of parishes
- Thread starter pantherland
- Start date
Amen. Amen.
I'm a devout Catholic, I will never leave the Church but the trends I've seen over the last 50 years are painful to reflect on.
Here's my take on the path the Church as taken in my memory and why we are here where we are today.
The path of the churches downfall
1) Vatican 2...turning churches into buildings by removing statues, paintings etc. Removing the communion rail, having the priest face the people and turning their backs to the Crucifix/Tabernacle. Receiving communion in the hand versus the mouth.
Catholic education takes a turn from teaching the beatitudes, Ten Commandments etc. to more secular teachings.
2) Start of Sat. Night masses. Apparently now Sunday isn't the Sabbath anymore...you can have the Sabbath be any day you'd like.
3)Giving too many options as to what time to attend mass. Hell...you can wait till 6 PM on a Sunday night. Do whatever you want Sat. Night, stay out late, get hammered. Put church last on your mind.
3) Relaxation of centuries old rules concerning mass, etc. Now it's apparently ok, to carry the eucharist outside to have mass aside of the church building.
4) Girls/Boys servers. Sorry, I disagree with it. Girls can join the choir.
5) General lack of expectations from priest/parents regarding childrens actions, dress etc. Even though we have airconditioned churches now even servers are allowed to wear shorts. Kids/Adults don't even know how to genuflect toward the Tabernacle now. More often than not people genuflect facing the pew they are about to enter.
6) covid restrictions, televised mass. The death nail of the church. Most masses are still televised today. Even funerals. Don't want to get out of your jammies? Hell...we'll stream it into your living room!
Catholic Hierarchy continues to take a path of being more inclusive, less strict etc. in the hopes of gaining/keeping parishioners. It's having the opposite affect. Church/mass is less important than what it used to be and the heirarchy shows that in what they do today by doing away with what we did over the centuries.
Here's my take on the path the Church as taken in my memory and why we are here where we are today.
The path of the churches downfall
1) Vatican 2...turning churches into buildings by removing statues, paintings etc. Removing the communion rail, having the priest face the people and turning their backs to the Crucifix/Tabernacle. Receiving communion in the hand versus the mouth.
Catholic education takes a turn from teaching the beatitudes, Ten Commandments etc. to more secular teachings.
2) Start of Sat. Night masses. Apparently now Sunday isn't the Sabbath anymore...you can have the Sabbath be any day you'd like.
3)Giving too many options as to what time to attend mass. Hell...you can wait till 6 PM on a Sunday night. Do whatever you want Sat. Night, stay out late, get hammered. Put church last on your mind.
3) Relaxation of centuries old rules concerning mass, etc. Now it's apparently ok, to carry the eucharist outside to have mass aside of the church building.
4) Girls/Boys servers. Sorry, I disagree with it. Girls can join the choir.
5) General lack of expectations from priest/parents regarding childrens actions, dress etc. Even though we have airconditioned churches now even servers are allowed to wear shorts. Kids/Adults don't even know how to genuflect toward the Tabernacle now. More often than not people genuflect facing the pew they are about to enter.
6) covid restrictions, televised mass. The death nail of the church. Most masses are still televised today. Even funerals. Don't want to get out of your jammies? Hell...we'll stream it into your living room!
Catholic Hierarchy continues to take a path of being more inclusive, less strict etc. in the hopes of gaining/keeping parishioners. It's having the opposite affect. Church/mass is less important than what it used to be and the heirarchy shows that in what they do today by doing away with what we did over the centuries.
Purplemojo
Well-known member
Wrong - First of all, many churches removed nothing but the communion rail. English and turning the priest around were all pluses. When my daughter started to study Latin, I wanted to take her to a Latin Mass. I could not believe how bad it was. the Latin is beautiful, but if you can't hear it or see what the priest is doing, then what is the point.
Wrong - The vigil Mass is part of our tradition and that of the Jewish faith, our spiritual grandparent.
Wrong - Some of the field Masses I attended as a scout and a soldier have been some of my most meaningful. Field Masses go back to the earliest time of the Church and have been done consistently through the ages. Even the Popes big events are open air, including his Masses.
My girls served and it has prepared them for an active life in the Church.
We do have a cult of comfort that is society wide, not just an issue for the Church. The Church can do nothing about it and is ill advised to turn these people away.
Correct
I too am a devout Catholic, but I celebrated the changes of VCII. I was a bit of a "Jesus Freak" in the 70's and the changes did a great deal to stoke my faith. I hope I passed that on to my children, but, as they say, the jury is still out.
I think the current state of the church is all I need to provide as evidence.
Yikes.
Westsidepublic
Active member
The current issues of the church don’t have anything to do with their mistakes of the past 50 years?
Westsidepublic
Active member
Meaning legal and moral
ElderHSfan02
Well-known member
I don't see why you can't adapt to a changing culture while still learning the Bible, Jesus Christ, and worshipping God. It's not like Jesus came to Earth and said only boys can be servers or mass has to be at 8am every Sunday. I think there is room for the Church to adapt while keeping the core values of the Church entact.
I thought they starting going too soft when then stopped animal sacrifices, or maybe when they went easy on all the predotor priest, but to genuflect towards the pew, and girls up on the alter, this has me absolutely irate. No wonder the numbers are dwindling.
It's a symptom Dumbazz. Either have a serious conversation or . Why genuflect at all if you are facing the pew? who are you genuflecting to? Your heart sure isn't where it needs to be at that moment. Church isn't a country club.
Ok..lets keep doing what we are doing. Obviously, it's working great. Priests,nuns are flocking to the more strict orders. They aren't flocking to the Precious Blood.
If you want a serious conversation, you might want to get out of the crusades.
ElderMackStud
Active member
Wonder how the meeting went today with the pastors and if anything will be leaked today or we will have to wait for the website to be updated tomorrow
MyNameIsDoug?
Well-known member
Ah, the words of a nice, Catholic boy.
So, the church should adapt to changing values of society. Birth Control? Abortion? guessing if society puts enough pressure on the church, we should adapt as a religion.
Yep..the items I mentioned, just so archaic right?
I have better for you ..eat a bag.
MyNameIsDoug?
Well-known member
A bag of what?! Yappi edited you and now I don't know what I'm eating!
Well yeah, kinda.
cincifbfan
Well-known member
They are actually. Most churches didn't even remove the Communion rail.
And those women...... man they should really know their place, right? Makes me so angry when churches have statues of Mary or other female saints on the Alter or even worse..... a church named after a woman...... The audacity.
Lol. Really. I've never seen a communion rail used. Have you?
ogealbhain
Well-known member
St. Patrick's in Columbus still does.
Is actually genuflecting to Jesus who is present in the Eucharist in the tabernacle instead of away from him..is that archaic? Actions speak volumes.
People actually go and kneel at the communion rail?
cincifbfan
Well-known member
Whoa, you said churches removed them. Physical removal and use are 2 completely different things. And yes, I have seen one used. At my church, there is a family that uses it every time they receive the Eucharist.
Well, Lets see. You named one out of maybe a 500 churches. That's overwhelming evidence to contradict my statement. One family? Wow.
what I have said. I live in the Land of the Cross Tipped churches...not a railing to be seen.
MickeyMantle
Well-known member
The church should certainly adapt to birth control. That is one of the craziest failures to adapt to the real world today.
We are also going to have to have women priests one day soon or we are not going to have a church.
MickeyMantle
Well-known member
Disagree entirely. But most of all, I disagree that the church being more inclusive is a bad thing. The church isn’t nearly inclusive enough.