Northwest Ohio Realignment

CC Track Fan said:
Very few kids at DSJ do not live in DSD. Delphos School district had the 2nd highest % of their students that attend private HS in the state. 36.4% which is second to Oak Hills 38.4%. Which works out to about 42/grade which is near DSJ enrollment.

I just can't see DSJ being consolidated LCC in the near future. That is essence is just DSJ closing. If it does close I would expect the great majority would just go to DJ. Sure some would go to LCC, a few would open enroll in FJ, Linconview and maybe some to Elida.
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Agreed. Except I could see more open enrolling happen.
 
I was told 10 years ago by a Lima area sports reporter that DSJ would be closing in the next five years. Obviously, he was way off, so I don't put much stock in those rumors these days.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
This is assuming every DSJ student lives in the Delphos City School District. There is rumor in Lima that DSJ would be closed by the diocese and those kids would have the option to obviously attend LCC if they wanted to make that sort of commute. I'd be curious as to how many DSJ kids come from Van Wert, Elida, Fort Jennings, Ottoville, Lincolnview, etc....

The other issue in Delphos right now is the Delphos City Schools are not in the best position financially right now. Imagine having to take on additional kids from a DSJ closure with no additional revenue (since those DSJ families who live in Delphos already pay towards Delphos City).
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I think there are some costs incurred by Delphos Jefferson each year relating to St Johns. I may be totally off base on this, someone who knows please add comments.
 
LimaJock said:
I think there are some costs incurred by Delphos Jefferson each year relating to St Johns. I may be totally off base on this, someone who knows please add comments.
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Correct. Delphos provides more services than most people in the general public realize.

IF they would merge.... Delphos city schools would get more money from the state. It's a per pupil basis. If the kids are autistic, special needs, etc. they also get more money to educate the children. I wouldn't be enough though to cover the added cost of bussing, additional teachers, etc unless the enrollment of St Johns is down really low where you wouldn't notice the difference in enrollment per grade level.
 
Dr. Frasier Crane said:
Correct. Delphos provides more services than most people in the general public realize.

IF they would merge.... Delphos city schools would get more money from the state. It's a per pupil basis. If the kids are autistic, special needs, etc. they also get more money to educate the children. I wouldn't be enough though to cover the added cost of bussing, additional teachers, etc unless the enrollment of St Johns is down really low where you wouldn't notice the difference in enrollment per grade level.
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It will also depend on whether the Delphos City Schools are a Cap or Guarantee funded district.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
This is assuming every DSJ student lives in the Delphos City School District. There is rumor in Lima that DSJ would be closed by the diocese and those kids would have the option to obviously attend LCC if they wanted to make that sort of commute. I'd be curious as to how many DSJ kids come from Van Wert, Elida, Fort Jennings, Ottoville, Lincolnview, etc....

The other issue in Delphos right now is the Delphos City Schools are not in the best position financially right now. Imagine having to take on additional kids from a DSJ closure with no additional revenue (since those DSJ families who live in Delphos already pay towards Delphos City).
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Delphos schools wouldn’t receive extra property tax money but they would receive extra money from the state for additional pupils. They would be getting more revenue.
 
FremontKeith said:
This whole thread has taken so many twists and turns with discussions of leagues and teams from every part of NW Ohio, and some teams that aren't NWO at all.

So will anything come of this? Or does the talk just slowly fade away?
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An ever-flowing stream of consciousness. A great example of the ebb and flow of these high-traffic threads.

To answer your first question, no. I doubt a bunch of old men and washed up high school heroes are going to have any sort of say in manipulating the landscape of NWO conferences.
I will say though. I do enjoy how these threads shine light on the relationships of rival schools, towns and conferences outside my personal interest signal. Fleshes out and give character to these towns and schools I'd just see as names on a map before.
 
FremontKeith said:
This whole thread has taken so many twists and turns with discussions of leagues and teams from every part of NW Ohio, and some teams that aren't NWO at all.

So will anything come of this? Or does the talk just slowly fade away?
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Something is going to happen.

I think there is 0% chance the NLL and the four TRAC publics will find four more schools to form a 16 schools, two divisions league.

But, the NBC lost Elmwood and may lose Woodmore. They will add schools to replace them.

If the NBC invites Maumee to replace Elmwood, and Woodmore leaves and the NBC invites Napoleon or BG, things will get interesting in the NLL. Will the NLL decide to let Maumee and Napoleon/BG leave and replace them with Clay and Ross, or will the NLL decide to keep the smaller schools and vote out AW & Perrysburg and replace them with Clay and Ross. Either way Findlay and Whitmer are stuck with the Toledo Catholic schools.

For any of that to happen the NBC has to decide to add one or more much larger schools.

Or ...

Northwood replaces Elmwood in the NBC.

Or Northwood does something with the NWOAL, which might free up some other NWOAL school(s) to go to the NBC.

In either case nothing changes in the NLL or TRAC.

I am so confident of this I am willing to wager up to $1.
 
Really interesting article from the Blade's Briggs. Seems that the conversation that the Catholic schools are intentionally not getting invites is finally hitting the mainstream. Also shines the light on our NWO oddity of privates and publics playing in the same league.
David Briggs said:
When Central Catholic formally expressed interest last month in joining the Northern Lakes League, my first instinct was to make sure I was still on Planet Earth.

Then I checked the calendar.

The thought of a private school with a football powerhouse — one that most teams avoid if they can help it — being welcomed into the public league with the area’s most restrictive enrollment structure seemed like an April Fools’ bit.

Only less believable.

While Northern Lakes League commissioner Richard Browne told us, “We are open to exploring all options,” several other sources in and around the conference confirmed the common wisdom, putting the odds that Central Catholic — or any of the five Catholic high schools in Toledo — would be admitted as anywhere from slim to none.

“Zero chance,” one said.

Still, I’ll never blame a school for exhausting all avenues.

As we wait to see whether the swirl of conference realignment rumors will feature as much bite as there is bluster, these are anxious times, especially for the area’s big private schools.

If the Three Rivers Athletic Conference disbands — and its members reaching out for life jackets from the NLL does not exactly inspire confidence — there is a strong possibility Central Catholic, Notre Dame, St. Francis de Sales, St. John’s Jesuit, and St. Ursula will be left on their own.

In fact, I’d say that’s the likely scenario, and perhaps the inevitable one.

Why inevitable?

Because for years our prep sports scene has operated in a delightfully alternate universe, defying the forces that governed the rest of the state. In northwest Ohio, dogs and cats lived together and the big Catholic schools and public schools played together in ... GASP! ... the same conference.

First, it was in the City League, which in its heyday rivaled any conference in Ohio. Since 2011, it’s been in the Three Rivers Athletic Conference, which brings together the Catholic schools, Clay, Findlay, Fremont Ross, Lima Senior, and Whitmer.

That doesn’t happen anywhere else.

While small private schools are sometimes part of leagues, the higher-division ones are not. In metro Cleveland and Akron, these schools — including St. Ignatius, St. Edward, and Archbishop Hoban — are all independent. In Columbus, they play in the Central Catholic League. In Cincinnati and Dayton, they’re in the Greater Catholic League.

There’s a clear separation of church and state (schools).

And understandably so.

Just think of the annual commotion about competitive balance.

It’s no secret private schools — though they make up only 15 percent (124) of the OHSAA’s 821 members — enjoy a disproportionate share of success, especially at the higher levels. (For instance, they’ve won 53 football championships in the top three divisions the past 30 years.)

It’s also no secret this grinds many a gear.

People become riled enough debating whether public and private schools should be together in the same state tournament, let alone in the same conference.

Now, these tensions are coming to a head in Toledo, too.

While I would love it if the Catholic schools were in the top division of a 16-team, public-private Northern Lakes (Super) League, that’s probably not realistic.

Consider the current membership of the NLL. Anthony Wayne, Northview, Perrysburg, Springfield, and Southview are unable to accept students from outside their district. (Bowling Green is open to adjacent districts; Maumee and Napoleon have open enrollment.)

You think they’re going to roll out the red carpet for all comers?

Add in the turbulence of the moment — the private schools playing on during Lucas County’s attempted sports shutdown incensed their public counterparts — and it doesn’t take Madam Marie to read the tea leaves.

“My role is just to keep reaching out,” said Fr. Geoff Rose, president of St. Francis. “If it makes the most sense for the TRAC to dissolve, OK, we don’t take that personally. We don’t think we should. We would prefer it not. ... At the end of the day, everyone is going to do what is best for their students and I wouldn’t expect anything less. But where possible, I would hope we do things that are great for the community, too.”

If not — at least for the private-school community — it’s hardly the end of the world.

It would just be different.

And a little more difficult.

The biggest benefit of conference membership is the scheduling structure.

If on their own, the Catholic schools will have to build their schedules from scratch, a level of matchmaking that would be particularly problematic in football.

Take Central Catholic, an annual Division II contender that has enough trouble as it is finding opponents for its three nonconference games. (Since 2015, the Fighting Irish have played one area team from outside the TRAC. Springfield needed a game in 2019 and bit the bullet in a 48-0 Central win.)

A Central spokesperson said the school had no comment beyond its statement expressing interest in the NLL.

For perspective on its potential challenge ahead, I reached out to Rory Fitzpatrick, the athletic director at St. Ignatius in Cleveland, where the Wildcats’ football program has won 11 state championships.

He detailed the drawback of independence when you’re a traditional power in the only team sport in which not every school makes the postseason.

Even in a metro area filled with big schools, his matchmaking skills are of little use. Most programs don’t want to chance their playoff ranking with a difficult nonconference game.

“I like to think of I have a really good relationship with a lot of ADs in northeast Ohio,” Fitzpatrick said. “It always doesn't matter.”

A typical St. Ignatius schedule might resemble its most recent pre-pandemic lineup in 2019. That season, the Wildcats played three nearby schools: rival St. Edward, Mentor, and Hoban. Their remaining games were against Archbishop Moeller and St. Xavier in Cincinnati and teams from Florida, Illinois, Maryland, and Canada.

“There are some years where you get backed into corners,” Fitzpatrick said. “We've had years where we had three home games and seven away ... other years where we've had to play teams out of state that we normally would not schedule.”

The good news, he said, is football is the outlier.

If his experience is an indication, he said our Catholic schools would have no scheduling issues in the other sports.

“Soccer is a great example,” Fitzpatrick said. “We won a state championship this year and year in and year out are one of the better teams in the state, and coach [Mike] McLaughlin has no problem filling the schedule out. Teams are willing to play. Now there's certainly not the physicality of football that some people worry about.

“But it’s a pretty strong signal that there's no fear of competition from teams.”

And as for football?

Ever the nice guy, he offered to lend his peers in Toledo a hand should they need it in the coming years.

“You can tell them all that there's a place for them on our schedule,” Fitzpatrick said. “Any time.”
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CC Track Fan said:
Very few kids at DSJ do not live in DSD. Delphos School district had the 2nd highest % of their students that attend private HS in the state. 36.4% which is second to Oak Hills 38.4%. Which works out to about 42/grade which is near DSJ enrollment.

I just can't see DSJ being consolidated LCC in the near future. That is essence is just DSJ closing. If it does close I would expect the great majority would just go to DJ. Sure some would go to LCC, a few would open enroll in FJ, Linconview and maybe some to Elida.
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Crestview...?
 
Dr. Frasier Crane said:
Correct. Delphos provides more services than most people in the general public realize.

IF they would merge.... Delphos city schools would get more money from the state. It's a per pupil basis. If the kids are autistic, special needs, etc. they also get more money to educate the children. I wouldn't be enough though to cover the added cost of bussing, additional teachers, etc unless the enrollment of St Johns is down really low where you wouldn't notice the difference in enrollment per grade level.
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what is the enrollment at Jefferson?
 
dhsdog06 said:
Most recent OHSAA numbers:

Jefferson 142 117 259
St John's 71 67 138

For further reference, LCC 109 94 203
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I knew DSJ was on the smaller side, but not barley bigger than NK small. That's eye-opening.
giphy.gif
 
jafo said:
ayCC! good article, thanks for sharing. (y)
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I know that trying to get around the subscription block the Blade usually has is especially frustrating considering how in depth and good quality their high school coverage usually is, so might as well just do some good old copy n paste. Even if the Blade continues to go down the $hitter because of the Blocks, I'm happy that there are still quality writers there who do some good stuff.
 
dappling said:
Delphos schools wouldn’t receive extra property tax money but they would receive extra money from the state for additional pupils. They would be getting more revenue.
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Not necessarily, It will also depend on whether the Delphos City Schools are a Cap or Guarantee funded district.
 
jafo said:
ayCC! good article, thanks for sharing. (y)
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Where exactly was the good or the well written? About all he got right was the old TCL was fairly unique but it wasn't even the only public-private conference in this area. And sadly, there was never a "hey day" in which it rivaled any conference in the state. For a major urban, I suspect we have fewer trophies on the wall than any other with a population more than Canton.

As for his reference as to why he feels the publics would not invite them in, he comes up with an assured reason with no quote from anyone in-power of creating a new conference. Not mentioned was that none of those private schools considered sending a life-line to the TPS schools when needed. And none of those private schools are going to have difficulty filling out a schedule. That's not just scare tactics or an attempt to ellicit sympathy; it's a raspberry. It's a hope that those looking to form a new conference fail. It's a childish nah-nah just like that letter from CCHS showing "interest" in any new conference.

That article, it's doggerel I'd suspect pandered.

If we do go to separate conferences, our area will be in the same structure as every other urban in the state. Urban, suburban, private. Everything will adjust, most likely to the benefit of the suburbs, just like in every other major area. I feel the loss of the old TCL and the TRAC but life will go on. If there are ANY good-ol boys worried about losing a trophy or two that think they will not lose population and talent competing against a private school conference if they do not include Whitmer, Clay, Findlay, Fremont and hopefully Lima into their new club, them good-ol boys iz stoopid.
 
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eastisbest said:
As for his reference as to why he feels the publics would not invite them in, he comes up with an assured reason with no quote from anyone in-power of creating a new conference.
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Well, do you think any of the privates are actually going to be considered/let in to the NLL? As we all know any of these "speculated" moves are solely to get away from them. Just because he doesn't list a source from "anyone in power of creating a new conference" doesn't mean he isn't wrong (I also think I'd rather not lose my job/get scrutinized for not knowing when to tell the author to credit me anonymously... maybe Briggs uses Yappi too?)

I'll definitely agree the privates will be fine in the end, even though they'd probably prefer a conference. Sucks to lose the TRAC, though. When it eventually does happen. I think.

IMO the article is probably best read by those who don't really have the best grasp of things when it comes to the Toledo and surrounding areas.
 
ayCC! said:
Just because he doesn't list a source from "anyone in power of creating a new conference" doesn't mean he isn't wrong
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:ROFLMAO:

I won't even bother explaining it to you... You should be able to figure out on your own what is seriously deficient in that statement.

ayCC! said:
IMO the article is probably best read by those who don't really have the best grasp of things when it comes to the Toledo and surrounding areas.
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I don't disagree with you but.... TOLEDO Blade. SPORTS section.

It's just opinion. All I'm saying regards the quality of the article is that I didn't find it good investigation or compelling writing. Maybe we're just desperate around here for anything? At best it's a no-op and at worst it's a pandered nah-nah.

As far a larger school conferences go, we're better off either getting over whatever it was that caused TRAC public schools to look elsewhere or for anyone in the NLL scared of a conference including the TRAC publics for competitive reasons to realize that if you force the privates into forming their own conference and you do not include ALL those TRAC publics, you...will....lose. Your conference championship will be a participation trophy and the highest you'll ever get Without the TRAC publics, ALL the TRAC publics, they are not numerous enough to have the synergy you need to compete with a private school conference. You will lose top athletes to them. You will lose money to them. You will eventually lose your last game to them.

The model they should be seeking is the Columbus Suburban conferences who can and do compete with the privates. For that, they need to match them in number of larger schools as best you can.

The STRONGEST league for the smallest large urban area in the state is a two division public-private conference in which boundaries are established in formal and informal recruiting. We cannot out-populate the stronger parts of the state. We cannot out-synergize them if we're stealing students from each other as opposed to cooperatively improving and increasing the size of the feeder leagues. You either beat Darwin or Darwin will beat you. Right now, with Cherry St leading the charge, our area is letting Darwin beat us with their hope they can get enough talent from a diminish supply of their creation, to compete at state. You cannot compete are state using kids that didn't not have high competition at the middle school levels, just because you grabbed the top of what remained of a dimished population. You need a high AVERAGE, with depth across all programs feeding your school as well as on your high school schedule.
 
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