Opinions on something a coach said

T

Thatsmykid

New member
Let me start by saying that I did not personally hear this as it was supposedly said during half time in the locker room at a game Two days ago. I heard about it from two seperate girls on the team and am hoping for some opinions about appropriate-ness and if I am over reacting.

Apparently the JV coaches told the girls that they suck. That they were an embarrassment and disrespectful. One coach even went as far as to say they like coaching their AAU team so much better and wished they didnt have to coach them etc etc.The other coach start spouting off about how she could take any of the players on the varsity team even though they are taller or whatever then her...etc.

None of this in my opinion is acceptable and certainly not helpful. Even if there are one or two bad apples causing the coaches to feel that way.....thats not something you address mid game. And certainly not in that manner .

Whats everyones elses opinion? Worth bringing up to the AD of just leave it alone?
 
 
USA70PP said:
Express your concerns to the coaches involved first. Don't threaten them about going to the AD.
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Especially since you didn't hear it yourself and are getting it from two players.. what about the other 9 or so players? Did they hear this also, and why no uproar from them. My guess is these two players heard what they wanted to hear and the truth is somewhere in the middle.
 
If the players are commited to their story, I would advise the girls to take it to parents of course and then to Admin, not AD. Trying to see both sides, either some coaches are severely out of control or some unfair comments are being made about them. Leaving stuff in the shadows is never a good thing IMO.
 
There's alot of ways to look at this. I'm going to guess the team isn't very good. And judging from some of the scores I see today, the gap between the good teams and not so good is larger than ever. The push for year-a-round sports has impacted high school sports, especially girls. And many smaller schools, you don't need much of a "buy-in" from players. If they show up on day one, they're on the team. When you give someone something, and they don't have to work for it, you'll get what you get.

Now, my other point is the coaching. It should be made clear from day one, that jr. high and JV are developmental programs and winning is secondary. I'm not advocating equal play, but there should be a consideration on developing each kid as much as possibly with the goal that they be a varsity player eventually. That is much easier said than done, but there should not be a coach in a developmental situation calling their players they are embarrassment.

At this point I would note it and monitor the rest of the season. If it comes up again, it may be time to schedule a meeting. I've also said there isn't a long line of people wanting to coach at the high school level. AAU is a little different because you're getting kids who most likely WANT to be there and parents paying alot of money for them to do so. Many look at school sports as "free" and you sometimes will get kids who have very little interest in being all they can be. It's intramurals to them.
 
14Red said:
Many look at school sports as "free" and you sometimes will get kids who have very little interest in being all they can be. It's intramurals to them.
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And some ride it out to get their opt out credit and not have to take a gym class for graduation.
 
Thatsmykid said:
Let me start by saying that I did not personally hear this as it was supposedly said during half time in the locker room at a game Two days ago. I heard about it from two seperate girls on the team and am hoping for some opinions about appropriate-ness and if I am over reacting.

Apparently the JV coaches told the girls that they suck. That they were an embarrassment and disrespectful. One coach even went as far as to say they like coaching their AAU team so much better and wished they didnt have to coach them etc etc.The other coach start spouting off about how she could take any of the players on the varsity team even though they are taller or whatever then her...etc.

None of this in my opinion is acceptable and certainly not helpful. Even if there are one or two bad apples causing the coaches to feel that way.....thats not something you address mid game. And certainly not in that manner .

Whats everyones elses opinion? Worth bringing up to the AD of just leave it alone?
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Let the girls and their parents handle it as they see fit.
 
I truly appreciate the input. I feel like this, coupled with other things that have been said and done this season is leaving a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. The two coaches in question are actually new this year. At first I chalked a lot of the talk up to new coach and the girls being overly sensitive.

After watching the coaches behavior and overhearing them saying a few things in the hallways after the game.....now im not sure.im starting to lean towards it may just be the coaches.
 
Thatsmykid said:
I truly appreciate the input. I feel like this, coupled with other things that have been said and done this season is leaving a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. The two coaches in question are actually new this year. At first I chalked a lot of the talk up to new coach and the girls being overly sensitive.

After watching the coaches behavior and overhearing them saying a few things in the hallways after the game.....now im not sure.im starting to lean towards it may just be the coaches.
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And that very well may be, I think if you have a coach come from the AAU/ independent circuit as opposed to the school structure, it's two different viewpoints. Back in the day when most teachers were coaches, there was a more 10,000 foot view of extracurriculars and the building of the kid was at the center. I think with some coaches, it's about winning, and winning only. All these are generally year by year contracts and you may want to give feedback at the end of the season when requested.
 
14Red said:
And that very well may be, I think if you have a coach come from the AAU/ independent circuit as opposed to the school structure, it's two different viewpoints. Back in the day when most teachers were coaches, there was a more 10,000 foot view of extracurriculars and the building of the kid was at the center. I think with some coaches, it's about winning, and winning only. All these are generally year by year contracts and you may want to give feedback at the end of the season when requested.
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Agreed. It is very different coaching the kids you choose to coach versus coaching kids that have to coach. Schools don't have the luxury of going out and picking the best players for a team like you can do in AAU, especially at the younger ages. Some coaches are all about the wins and not much into development. Those coaches do not belong in lower level school sports. The middle schools, freshmen, and JV should all be about development. Winning games is important too because you want the kids to have a positive attitude but ultimately, the most important thing in a program is to develop those kids so the Varsity team can win.
 
Yappi said:
Agreed. It is very different coaching the kids you choose to coach versus coaching kids that have to coach. Schools don't have the luxury of going out and picking the best players for a team like you can do in AAU, especially at the younger ages. Some coaches are all about the wins and not much into development. Those coaches do not belong in lower level school sports. The middle schools, freshmen, and JV should all be about development. Winning games is important too because you want the kids to have a positive attitude but ultimately, the most important thing in a program is to develop those kids so the Varsity team can win.
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And that's difficult because it pays next to nothing, and you don't get many to choose from, if any when looking at coaches for middle school, freshmen and even JV in some instances. Sadly many of these coaches end up in positions by default, meaning no one else wants to do it.
 
Funny I could hear an accent in the words ascribed to the coaches as I read them. Had not thought about the sitcom MY NNAME IS EARL for a few years.

Culture of a program or community would enter the equation as to how inappropriate such comments were. As many teachers say on once they dont enjoy the kids anymore it is time to move on. Sounds like these coaches may want to consider moving on if the comments were close to accurate.
 
14Red said:
Now, my other point is the coaching. It should be made clear from day one, that jr. high and JV are developmental programs and winning is secondary. I'm not advocating equal play, but there should be a consideration on developing each kid as much as possibly with the goal that they be a varsity player eventually.
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I'm going to agree with you on one Caveat. If you play in a league that does a conference tourney for levels below Varsity then come tourney time you should put in a reasonable effort to win each game.
 
My thoughts:
1. 7th grade-JV should be conducted as developmental teams. Now more than ever unless you're an uber strong program with tradition and staying power, then you're going to experience attrition. Players are going to decide to focus more on one sport. Players may decide to focus on other things ie jobs, friends, etc. The more players you can bring a long and and invest in the more retention you'll experience and the better product a varsity coach will be left with when it comes to the kids that choose to stick around.

2. As with many things in life and so it goes as a coach perspective is paramount. Because of what I said above it could be hard for a coach in an AAU program to grasp the perspective of the importance of development and retention to the overall lifeblood of the program and how detrimental such comments could be to it. Not all coaches are built for this kind of perspective and development. I think what you saw here was a culmination of frustration that boiled over into what were hopefully regretful comments. While regretful (again, hopefully), they weren't personal attacks and I would assume the players don't feel unsafe playing for these coaches. For this reason, I wouldn't address it in-season unless it got personal.

3. Ultimately this is a situation that I feel is something to be addressed after the season is over. I would start with the head coach. Ultimately it's his or her program and those jv coaches should answer to them. If they're coaches underneath them are coaching in a way that's harmful to the program, then the head coach should be aware of it so they can best be able to nip it in the bud. Maybe that's letting those coaches move on, or maybe it's helping provide them with the perspective they seem to be lacking. As has been stated finding coaches is harder now than ever, a constant turnover of coaches isn't a good thing either. So maybe growth by those coaches can be achieved in this area. Because you would assume they must have some amount of knowledge of the game if they're coaching AAU ball that with professional growth they could be an asset to the program.

4. As a parent dealing with my child, in that situation I would try to use it as a teachable moment. In life we're all going to deal with adversity and how we deal with that adversity will reveal our character. That goes for coaches and that goes for players. Though the coaches chose to use words that could tear down the team, how can you as a player take that and use it to build your team up? Rather than looking to place blame, what can you as a player do to try and overcome the adversity and rectify the situation (this may not result in wins). If the player is a vocal leader, maybe it's speaking encouragement/motivation into the others ears. If they're not a vocal leader, maybe it's going practice every day with a major focus of doing everything you can to improve yourself as a player and give max effort. etc, etc. How can you as a player lead?

I say all of this in that I think as a society we're quick to complain, we're quick to go to the coach or administration with vitriol about how our kids were wronged or done unfairly. I saw a letter from a parent to a coach a few weeks back that made the hair on my neck stand up. The pure hate that parent had in their heart for that coach was simply amazing and sad. There's a lack of accountability in our society. People don't want to accept reality in many situations and rather than trying to learn/understand (most parents don't despite what they think) or extend a little grace they'd rather go full scorched earth and that's sad.

I'll get off my soapbox now.
 
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A couple thoughts which are different from those already offered.

1. As a parent I would have grabbed the other parent whose daughter was upset and gone directly to the JV coaches the next day, bringing our daughters with us to the meeting. The tone of the meeting would hopefully be constructive, e.g., here's what our daughters told us was said...please explain. What I would have been looking for out of that meeting is an agreement from the coaches to have a substantive discussion with the entire team about what they said and why. Failing that, I would summarize the meeting with the head coach in person, and step away - there's nothing more a parent can or should do short term. (An aside, I would have alerted the head coach to the meeting in advance as a courtesy and promised to update him/her on how the meeting went.)

A meeting like that is the only way for anything positive to emerge from what happened. Escalating, especially if the JV coaches don't know you're doing it, will make everyone defensive, it will further polarize and entrench.

2. Judge what the coaches said however you want, but it is quite likely the coaches have "lost" the players. Yes, criticism needs to be direct and can even be harsh, but it needs to be substantive for players to respond. After such generalized and perhaps even cruel criticism, the players are not likely to respond in a positive way to any criticism in the future - they will see it as just another personal attack.
 
I believe in "hard coaching" - with a stipulation. I was coached hard. I had football coaches grab me by the facemask, call me names my mother wouldn't approve of, while spittling snuff particles in my face. Lol. The stipulation was that I also knew those coaches genuinely cared about me, so that made it discipline, not abuse in my mind. After raising children and now helping with grands, a fundamental truth is that punishment without love is abuse. Punishment with unconditional love is discipline. It can be the same punishment. Discipline teaches. Abuse relieves the emotions of the abuser. Its the love or lack of it in the punisher that makes the difference - and how clearly that love has been communicated.

One other caveat is, despite what we are being told, there is a difference between boys and girls in terms of what you can do. There are things that boys coaches can do that I don't think are effective or appropriate with girls.

The offence here is one of language. Just a slight change in sentence structure can make something appropriate or abusive. "You were not playing hard and giving good effort" vs. "You are lazy and worthless". "That was a dumb play" vs. "You are dumb." "You are not doing what you have been coached to do" vs. "You are betraying me and you suck".

I was at a girls sectional game about 10 years ago watching a game I had no rooting interest in. I was sitting right behind the bench of one team and that coach berated and demeaned his players throughout the game as they would check out with stuff like, "You are stupid. I can't believe how stupid you are."

I remember thinking at the time, if my daughter was being demeaned like that, that coach and I would eventually find ourselves rolling around in the parking lot. I would not tolerate it.

A final word of caution: be careful believing every story a teen or two tells you. Confirm the facts dispassionately, then react. You don't want to find yourself rolling around in the parking lot and later discover that you acted on exaggerations and teen imaginations.
 
Maybe you shouldn't take everything that is said so literally?? I'm not saying what the coach said isn't dumb but does it really warrant a meeting with the coaches? Move on and find something else to worry over. As a coach, you can say the right thing every day all day but as soon as you say something that could offend someone, everyone wants to have meetings and coaches fired. This is why nobody wants to coach anymore.
 
I've had coaches of mine tell the team in a huddle during a time out, in the locker room at half time and at the end of a game we really stunk the place up tonight and he always included himself along with it and we'll go back to work on Monday. If a coach tells someone or the team they suck, stink or whatever he's just cutting his own nose off. Now being disrespectful is a different story all together.
 
The gym is the coach’s classroom. This wouldn’t be accepted before 3pm and shouldn’t be accepted after. First move would be to call the other girls parents. The next decision would be AD or principal. I skip the coach as I would skip a teacher if someone confirmed my kids version. Let them investigate and deal with it! Insist on follow up!
 
IVCguy said:
One other caveat is, despite what we are being told, there is a difference between boys and girls in terms of what you can do. There are things that boys coaches can do that I don't think are effective or appropriate with girls.
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I think you can add another layer to this. Parents are willing to deal with more from a female girls basketball coach than they are from a male in the same position.

As for what boys basketball coaches can get away with, I think it is better to let your imagination run that try to type it out.
 
Curious One said:
The gym is the coach’s classroom. This wouldn’t be accepted before 3pm and shouldn’t be accepted after. First move would be to call the other girls parents. The next decision would be AD or principal. I skip the coach as I would skip a teacher if someone confirmed my kids version. Let them investigate and deal with it! Insist on follow up!
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You are free to make whatever decision you wish. But I was always told to approach the coach/teacher first before even involving my parents. Then my parents would go with me to talk with the coach. Then you bring in the AD/Principal.
 
Who you approach first depends, I think, on what you want.

If you want the JV coaches non-renewed, go to the Head Varsity Coach with that specific request. I'm assuming the Head Coach will keep the AD in the loop. But, let the Head Coach control the process from there, engaging you in further discussion as he or she sees fit.

If you want to offer constructive criticism or even a warning that you will escalate if similar behaviors reoccur, go directly to the JV coaches. After that meeting, summarize it for the Head Coach. If the conversation with JV coaches was constructive, the Head Coach can help. If not, you've laid the groundwork for a non-renewal request in the future if behaviors continue.

Oversimplified - yes. And, I don't know the context, the people, the history, or the culture at your school. But decide what you want before each step in the process.
 
CedarBuck92 said:
I think you can add another layer to this. Parents are willing to deal with more from a female girls basketball coach than they are from a male in the same position.

As for what boys basketball coaches can get away with, I think it is better to let your imagination run that try to type it out.
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I think you are alluding to something interesting, but I'm not totally sure what it is.

I think you are alluding to getting physical with players, i.e. grabbing, shoving, etc., and rough language. And, of course, with a heterosexual coach-player relationship, sexual speech, innuendo, flirtation, exceeding appropriate boundaries, etc., is always a concern. But, these days, you have to be concerned with the same stuff with female coaches.

I'm biased, but I think my dau played for the best HS girls coach in the country. He was/is uncompromising on standards and expectations. He was caring, but not in a fawning way. He alternately put incredible pressure on his players and then built them up. From a family perspective, he alternately gave us thrills and made us miserable.

But, his priority was always the betterment of our dau as a person and a player. In the process, she won a ton of basketball games. Played in 3 state championship games in 4 years of varsity ball. How many parents can say that? More importantly, he taught her life skills that have helped her be a successful adult. I owe that man a ton.

But he wasnt perfect. He made some mistakes, went a little over the line a few times, and we discussed it and worked through it. On balance, he was an overwhelmingly good influence on Punkin.

I see a lot of coaches who make it all about them. I also see a lot of winning programs that arent all that interested in character building and life skills and I see a lot of losing programs who feel that participation is enough of a reward. But i have seen what happens when the coach makes it all about the players benefit: they win and they develop great human beings - and the coach ends up getting the praise that the coaches who are all about themselves are seeking. FWIW
 
IVCguy said:
I think you are alluding to something interesting, but I'm not totally sure what it is.

I think you are alluding to getting physical with players, i.e. grabbing, shoving, etc., and rough language. And, of course, with a heterosexual coach-player relationship, sexual speech, innuendo, flirtation, exceeding appropriate boundaries, etc., is always a concern. But, these days, you have to be concerned with the same stuff with female coaches.
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That is exactly what I am alluding to. I watched a coach grab one of his male players and propel him to the locker room where they had an "intense" 25+ minute "discussion" and no one did a thing. Had that been a male coach with a female player the parents would have been livid. I am not saying that coaches being physical with their players is ok by any stretch but we as a society seem to be ok with male coaches being physical with male players.
 
CedarBuck92 said:
You are free to make whatever decision you wish. But I was always told to approach the coach/teacher first before even involving my parents. Then my parents would go with me to talk with the coach. Then you bring in the AD/Principal.
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If it were your parents that told you to do that, then you did go to your parents first. if it were someone else that told you, you were used inappropriately. JMHO.
 
eastisbest said:
If it were your parents that told you to do that, then you did go to your parents first. if it were someone else that told you, you were used inappropriately. JMHO.
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Let me try to restate what I mean in hopes it makes more sense. You should be telling your parents what is going on. But the player trying to resolve issues with the coach directly is a good thing. If resolution cannot be reached then you bring the parents in. If resolution still cannot be reached you bring in the AD, then the Principal, etc. Obviously, if the coach is doing something harmful or violent then skip them and go up the chain.

I'm also kind of not sure how I was used inappropriately.
 
CedarBuck92 said:
I'm going to agree with you on one Caveat. If you play in a league that does a conference tourney for levels below Varsity then come tourney time you should put in a reasonable effort to win each game.
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Absolutely, I think every level should have a part of trying to win. Sometimes you have to build a winning culture. If you get too cavalier on that, you begin to get an intramural feel to your program and that's not acceptable. I've often said it's not that winning is the end all be all, but the "effort" it takes to win. You should always want to win, it's just at the JV/ Freshman/ Jr. high levels you need to develop players as well.
 
eastisbest said:
If the players are commited to their story, I would advise the girls to take it to parents of course and then to Admin, not AD. Trying to see both sides, either some coaches are severely out of control or some unfair comments are being made about them. Leaving stuff in the shadows is never a good thing IMO.
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No need to involve admin. Go to the HC first, then AD if not satisfied. Nothing will create more animosity then going over the head of 2 levels of staff.
 
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