Northwest Ohio Realignment

In theory it works, but that model was attempted in all sports in NEO with the 18 team NOC and it was a disaster. The league lasted longer than it probably should have. It didn’t matter as much in other sports, and perhaps it’s more possible with football now that the playoff is expanding, but for those teams that are smaller schools but successful, it’s a huge issue.

Going back to the NOC, you always had four schools consistently in the top division: Mentor, Solon, Strongsville, Brunswick. The last two spots were transition spots, and there became five schools that did everything in their power to avoid staying in the middle division: Hudson, Twinsburg, Medina, Stow, Mayfield. It ended up destroying the league because teams didn’t want to play up. Some were legit (Mayfield and Twinsburg had some very good teams, but were small schools and very class dependent), and some were not (Stow and Medina were two of the biggest schools in the league, they just couldn’t get their programs off the ground at that time).

This eventually led to the formation of the current two division Suburban League and the Greater Cleveland Conference.

One of the other huge issues with relegation is that it makes it much more difficult to schedule your non conference games. If I’m a Southview, Clay or a BG and I’m one of the schools that could potentially fluctuate, who I schedule non-league is heavily dependent on which division I’m in for that year.

Makes sense...although, wouldn't a model like that work in every sport BUT the sport that does things in such a cockamemie way that 10-0 teams can't compete for a state title?

Keep football beholden to enrollment and make every other sport a pro/rel? Sounds like a solid way to ensure teams maintain some level of competition in all sports.
 
Makes sense...although, wouldn't a model like that work in every sport BUT the sport that does things in such a cockamemie way that 10-0 teams can't compete for a state title?

Keep football beholden to enrollment and make every other sport a pro/rel? Sounds like a solid way to ensure teams maintain some level of competition in all sports.
Enrollment isnt always the best method. There are some MAC schools (Midwest Athletic Conference) that have freshman, JV, and Varsity football teams. Its a different animal down there. My point is that they have strong programs and punch way above their weight class, so to speak. Marion Local or Coldwater would win the City League, for example, probably every year.

Program quality is the key for each sport.

If the NLL does go through with this and Whitmer gets in, they need to NOT use the size of the school for every sport. Their girls soccer program gets crushed in the TRAC now. It would be worse in the NLL, which is a much stronger conference for girls soccer.

Based on a combined TRAC/NLL for girls soccer (for comparison purposes), it probably went something like this in 2020:

1. AW
2. PBurg
3. NV
4. Clay
5. SUA
6. SV
7. Findlay
8. NDA
9. CCHS
10. Maumee
11. BG
12. Springfield
13. Fremont
14. Napoleon
15. Whitmer
16. Lima
 
Enrollment isnt always the best method. There are some MAC schools (Midwest Athletic Conference) that have freshman, JV, and Varsity football teams. Its a different animal down there. My point is that they have strong programs and punch way above their weight class, so to speak. Marion Local or Coldwater would win the City League, for example, probably every year.

Program quality is the key for each sport.

If the NLL does go through with this and Whitmer gets in, they need to NOT use the size of the school for every sport. Their girls soccer program gets crushed in the TRAC now. It would be worse in the NLL, which is a much stronger conference for girls soccer.

Based on a combined TRAC/NLL for girls soccer (for comparison purposes), it probably went something like this in 2020:

1. AW
2. PBurg
3. NV
4. Clay
5. SUA
6. SV
7. Findlay
8. NDA
9. CCHS
10. Maumee
11. BG
12. Springfield
13. Fremont
14. Napoleon
15. Whitmer
16. Lima

It would be an interesting exercise to watch the group making those decisions. Having spent time in seeding meetings in the past, I could easily see things getting out of hand quick unless you propose a 2 or 3 year running W/L record as the only metric.
 
It would be an interesting exercise to watch the group making those decisions. Having spent time in seeding meetings in the past, I could easily see things getting out of hand quick unless you propose a 2 or 3 year running W/L record as the only metric.
Exactly.
 
This is a huge topic that I can't believe has not received more coverage here......The amount of cheating/recruiting/unethical stuff Rossford has done in their basketball program is scandalous.....
Don’t we know it. If there was an investigation of this program, they’d get the ‘death’ penalty. But when the mayor, school super, school board member, AD and entire coaching staff is in on it, anything goes. Rossford basketball policy is, no player or parent get Covid tested, if you don’t get tested you can’t be positive, no matter how many times a player pukes at home or days dad misses at work because of illness.
 
LC already plays Napoleon, Wauseon and Bryan in Football and quite regularly win. They would beat Defiance most of the last 10 years as they would Maumee and BG up until the last year or two.As would Archbold. PH is just way too small now and not gonna get any bigger. LC is gonna increase in size with 24.
If this is a football only league then let's do it, especially with the 12 team playoff expansion. Unfortunately, all the other sports and levels have to be considered and it doesn't make sense. Now, I'm not saying they won't get roped into some league like this and just have to deal with it, but outside of a few sports they will struggle to compete-and that's just at the varsity level.
 
You're kind of answering why this whole thing will happen if TAAC/NWOAL does with that statement. All the NLL has to do is find a fourth to match with Wauseon, Bryan, and Defiance in that scenario and you're all set (I'm still inclined to believe L-B or Archbold would be involved there). PH would bolt, leaving 4 teams in the NWOAL (Bryan, Wauseon, Archbold, and LC). Way easier for those four to join the NLL/NBC than to try to get 4 to join their conference that was just hollowed out, regardless of history.

To me, the 16 teams are pretty clear...no idea why you're struggling with the logic here.

Whitmer, Findlay, Fremont, and Clay
Defiance, Wauseon, Bryan, and LB, LC, or Archbold. That 4th team is whichever of the 3 the other 7 small schools division teams want more or whichever is left standing if the NBC decided to invite some of them. They will NEED to find homes, thats what drives the small school division.

16 superintendents, principals, middle school principals, athletic directors, school boards, an unknown number of influential boosters, important parents, and other community members, each trying to do what they think is best for their students, kids, grandkids, career, job security, budget, community, reputation, ...

What's logic got to do with it?
 
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I think he was referring to their open enrollment policy adding 90 new out-of-district freshmen this past year (and more in the other classes as well). They didn't put any sort of "safeguards" in regarding attendance and disciplinary records and academic performance and now their reaping the "benefits" of adding in anyone who wants to come. On the plus side, their basketball teams have seemed to improve considerably in short order.

It's the same sort of trade off many are worried about in WLS with their discussion of OE Policy lately. Sure the numbers will go up and maybe sports might get a little better, but at what cost?
The freshman class at rossford is very weak. You’d expect if they were recruiting that you’d have a dominant team at every level in the moneymaker sports.
 
One other thing too is that if a conference goes to 2 divisions, for example, having Northview and Southview in separate divisions of the same league, you would need to have only 6 conference games in your division and 1 crossover to maintain historical rivalries (because NV and SV would be in separate divisions based on a lot of the discussion here).
 
One other thing too is that if a conference goes to 2 divisions, for example, having Northview and Southview in separate divisions of the same league, you would need to have only 6 conference games in your division and 1 crossover to maintain historical rivalries (because NV and SV would be in separate divisions based on a lot of the discussion here).

But then you'd run risk of having Whitmer play a team like Wauseon/Napoleon in a mandatory crossover. 8 is ideal...NV/SV could easily set up an OOC game, as could Maumee/Perrysburg if Maumee wanted to keep seeing 50+ points on the scoreboard.
 
One other thing too is that if a conference goes to 2 divisions, for example, having Northview and Southview in separate divisions of the same league, you would need to have only 6 conference games in your division and 1 crossover to maintain historical rivalries (because NV and SV would be in separate divisions based on a lot of the discussion here).

There would be 3 nonleague games for a reason.

They can play one of those 3 weeks. Same with Maumee and Perrysburg if they choose to keep their rivalry intact.
 
True. Just something to consider.

I've heard Sylvania is redistricting with hopes of closing the gaps to the high schools. Curious how that will/would change things. If it would pull Southview up past Clay/Fremont/Springfield (whoever's lowest at the time) and into the big school division, or just push Northview down to the point they'd be the smallest in the big school.
 
I think he was referring to their open enrollment policy adding 90 new out-of-district freshmen this past year (and more in the other classes as well). They didn't put any sort of "safeguards" in regarding attendance and disciplinary records and academic performance and now their reaping the "benefits" of adding in anyone who wants to come. On the plus side, their basketball teams have seemed to improve considerably in short order.

It's the same sort of trade off many are worried about in WLS with their discussion of OE Policy lately. Sure the numbers will go up and maybe sports might get a little better, but at what cost?
by chance if your talking about all their basketball teams, i recommend trying to watch the women's team
 
I've heard Sylvania is redistricting with hopes of closing the gaps to the high schools. Curious how that will/would change things. If it would pull Southview up past Clay/Fremont/Springfield (whoever's lowest at the time) and into the big school division, or just push Northview down to the point they'd be the smallest in the big school.
I think this is the third year for Sylvania after we changed boundaries. I haven't heard that there is another push to redistrict again. They said at the time there would be some delay for the changes to take place at the HS level because of grandfathering families into NV or SV. They also need 3-4 years for the impact to be seen because they weren't making any HS kids changes schools.....it was for incoming freshman classes. They also eliminated open enrollment. I think the expectation is the numbers will start to balance out in the next few years.
 
I think this is the third year for Sylvania after we changed boundaries. I haven't heard that there is another push to redistrict again. They said at the time there would be some delay for the changes to take place at the HS level because of grandfathering families into NV or SV. They also need 3-4 years for the impact to be seen because they weren't making any HS kids changes schools.....it was for incoming freshman classes. They also eliminated open enrollment. I think the expectation is the numbers will start to balance out in the next few years.

Makes sense, thank you. So as far as the OHSAA numbers are concerned, we'll get a partial picture with the 2021 numbers but may not see the true impact until 2023?
 
16 superintends, principals, middle school principals, athletic directors, school boards, an unknown number of influential boosters, important parents, and other community members, each trying to do what they think is best for their students, kids, grandkids, career, job security, budget, community, reputation, ...

What's logic got to do with it?
I agree. Once Strack posted that tweet, my contacts said the whole thing was on life support because of the moving parts, politics, traditions, travel, etc.
 
Makes sense, thank you. So as far as the OHSAA numbers are concerned, we'll get a partial picture with the 2021 numbers but may not see the true impact until 2023?
I'm not sure how any of that works but doesn't the numbers that OHSAA use reflect several years past. So if say they were using numbers from 18-19.....to determine 20-21 divisions......the actual numbers in a redistricting situation could be shifted quite a bit. The boards intent a few years ago was that the enrollment would be similar.
 
One other thing too is that if a conference goes to 2 divisions, for example, having Northview and Southview in separate divisions of the same league, you would need to have only 6 conference games in your division and 1 crossover to maintain historical rivalries (because NV and SV would be in separate divisions based on a lot of the discussion here).
Or play the 1st game of the season. When Northview was in the GLL and Southview was in the NLL, they played the first game of the season. It would be interesting to see Napoleon and Defiance moved to the last week of the season.
 
I think this is the third year for Sylvania after we changed boundaries. I haven't heard that there is another push to redistrict again. They said at the time there would be some delay for the changes to take place at the HS level because of grandfathering families into NV or SV. They also need 3-4 years for the impact to be seen because they weren't making any HS kids changes schools.....it was for incoming freshman classes. They also eliminated open enrollment. I think the expectation is the numbers will start to balance out in the next few years.
Out of curiosity, why not have Sylvanians send their kids to whichever high school they want in Sylvania? I am a Catholic school person so we've always been ones to send our kids to wherever we felt was best. So the districting thing hasn't made much sense to me. Would Northview be way bigger if it was open enrollment? Would all the football kids end up going to one over the other? I am genuinely curious. Sylvania is the only suburban district to have two high schools.
 
Or play the 1st game of the season. When Northview was in the GLL and Southview was in the NLL, they played the first game of the season. It would be interesting to see Napoleon and Defiance moved to the last week of the season.
I didnt realize they were in separate conferences years ago.
 
I'm not sure how any of that works but doesn't the numbers that OHSAA use reflect several years past. So if say they were using numbers from 18-19.....to determine 20-21 divisions......the actual numbers in a redistricting situation could be shifted quite a bit. The boards intent a few years ago was that the enrollment would be similar.

I believe it's data from the previous year, pulled every 2. Right now the data being used was approved in March, 2019, so it's fall 18 data. It's due to be done again this year for the 21-22 and 22-23 seasons, using fall 20 data...but with COVID and irregularities across the state as far as enrollment and in person vs remote learning, I have no idea what's going to happen. Maybe they'll just use this data another year or 2.

But yes, it definitely wouldn't totally show up yet. I'd expect the 23 or maybe even 25 figures to show the effects better.
 
I didnt realize they were in separate conferences years ago.

Original Sylvania HS (Northview) was in the GLL. When the split happened in the mid 70s, Southview joined the NLL. Northview finally moved in the mid 90s when Lake jumped to the SLL.
 
Out of curiosity, why not have Sylvanians send their kids to whichever high school they want in Sylvania? I am a Catholic school person so we've always been ones to send our kids to wherever we felt was best. So the districting thing hasn't made much sense to me. Would Northview be way bigger if it was open enrollment? Would all the football kids end up going to one over the other? I am genuinely curious. Sylvania is the only suburban district to have two high schools.

Didn't Mayzes get in trouble for recruiting 8th graders several years ago when one of the junior highs was a feeder for both high schools?
 
I think they'd have an easier time just putting everyone into moving vans and moving the towns. I however am not giving up my spot. They can rename it, as long as it's called East ….. but not moving.
 
I believe it's data from the previous year, pulled every 2. Right now the data being used was approved in March, 2019, so it's fall 18 data. It's due to be done again this year for the 21-22 and 22-23 seasons, using fall 20 data...but with COVID and irregularities across the state as far as enrollment and in person vs remote learning, I have no idea what's going to happen. Maybe they'll just use this data another year or 2.

But yes, it definitely wouldn't totally show up yet. I'd expect the 23 or maybe even 25 figures to show the effects better.
That makes sense for why the numbers may not reflect the redistricting. I'm pretty sure fall of 18 would be the first freshman class under the new rules. It could take until '25 for the coattail siblings to work their way through the process.
 
Out of curiosity, why not have Sylvanians send their kids to whichever high school they want in Sylvania? I am a Catholic school person so we've always been ones to send our kids to wherever we felt was best. So the districting thing hasn't made much sense to me. Would Northview be way bigger if it was open enrollment? Would all the football kids end up going to one over the other? I am genuinely curious. Sylvania is the only suburban district to have two high schools.
It has been open enrollment throughout the district up until this last redistricting. Some schools would get closed due to capacity restrictions but if you wanted to drive your kid you could enroll them anywhere. I think they wanted to restrict the open enrollment when they did the redistricting because they were worried it wouldn't do any good if everyone just open enrolled back into their previous home district. Even at the high school level....I'm pretty sure you can take a class at the other school if it isn't offered at your home school since the two schools are so close.
 
I'll bet we get to 50 pages on this thread before we hear any more from the NLL.
God forbid the next thing they say is along the lines of "Wellll, I guess it didn't work. At least we tried, Napoleon and Maumee!" The possibilities are too far along to just simply shrug the shoulders and carry on.

I doubt that will happen entirely, but it's becoming more clear that either everything blows up or everyone stays.

Still living for all of this speculation though.
 
Or play the 1st game of the season. When Northview was in the GLL and Southview was in the NLL, they played the first game of the season. It would be interesting to see Napoleon and Defiance moved to the last week of the season.
One year we were 2-8 with wins over NV & SV, who were a combined 1-19. We declared ourselves Sylvania City Champions.
 
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