Midwest Athletic Conference 2021

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thavoice said:
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StateChampion2012 said:
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I meant that it didn't make sense to me from an operations standpoint, not a strategic one (i.e. "how do they create the schedules; how far out do they schedule; etc"). I understand your argument about the harbin points and playoffs. Although, I think that's becoming even less important with an expansion to 12 teams. I don't want to derail or dig into this too much, because I was genuinely asking a question about 2021 Coldwater-Versailles. If the WBL did this, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that, say, Van Wert (top team) and Defiance (basement) wouldn't play each other. And as much as Defiance may want to resume dormant rivalries... they'd miss out on their closest conference foe and the main league team they enjoy going up against. And they'd still have a trip to Kenton. Also, WBL teams don't really struggle to get into the playoffs. Deserving teams have been in and now bubble teams will too with the expansion to 12. Plus as a WBL guy, I prefer playing the teams we're in a league with. :p

I get that the MAC has this rotation and the MAC is obviously the undisputed small school league in the state (and probably nation). What they have is working. No need to change anything. I'm not advocating that they should. I just had a question lol as it struck me as odd that in a way-too-early 2021 preview that Coldwater (perennial power) and Versailles (contender for the D5 state title) aren't going head-to-head. Seems like a missed opportunity for some great football.
 
PantherSkin said:
Well I think you’re close:
1-1A: MSML/Coldwater - I really think Marion comes out with something to prove, what’s the chance they move to D6?
2-2A: New Bremen/Versailles - New Bremen did have 17 Seniors, but only 11 really played a lot. They also had 18 Juniors, and 17 Sophomores (including 2 that scored in the State title game).
3: St Henry - small numbers but some talent.
4-4A: Anna/Minster - while I don’t think Minster has much talent Stokes seems to get the most out of them.
5: Fort Recovery- if they couldn’t win with all that talent I don’t know how they are going to win without it.
10: DSJ/Parkway - these two teams will not see the Playoffs again for a while, unless they open it up to everyone again.
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on NB 11 seniors how many of them played both ways?
 
StateChampion2012 said:
Here you go @PantherSkin

1. Marion Local - I have confidence Timmy G will find a way

2. Coldwater - Return 3 O lineman and 2 running backs and a plethora of receivers. Defense returns alot of the LB core.

3. Versailles - Bold Prediction. Versailles will be in the D5 title game vs Kirtland in 2021. Could finish 2nd. Hard to tell because CW and Versailles won't play.

4. New Bremen - Good upcoming senior class. I think the upcoming junior class is too. David Homan will be QB. The program is here to stay.

5. Minster - I think Geron Stokes will have them competitive.

6. Anna - I think Anna will still be young. Could be interchangable with Minster.

7. Fort Recovery - They'll have Troy Homan at RB but there's plenty of ?'s.

8. St Henry - They need to get their numbers up.

9. Delphos St. John's - If their numbers/enrollment continue to drop, they will remain down here. You worry me DSJ. Does Isaac Fairchild return?

10. Parkway - Like DSJ, 30 boys isn't going to cut it in this league.
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Ill play this year...

1. Marion (championship Defense)
2a. Cavs
2b. Versailles
4. Cards
5a. St. Henry
5b. Minster
7. Anna
8. Fort
9. St. Johns
10. Parkway
 
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tucson said:
I meant that it didn't make sense to me from an operations standpoint, not a strategic one (i.e. "how do they create the schedules; how far out do they schedule; etc"). I understand your argument about the harbin points and playoffs. Although, I think that's becoming even less important with an expansion to 12 teams. I don't want to derail or dig into this too much, because I was genuinely asking a question about 2021 Coldwater-Versailles. If the WBL did this, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that, say, Van Wert (top team) and Defiance (basement) wouldn't play each other. And as much as Defiance may want to resume dormant rivalries... they'd miss out on their closest conference foe and the main league team they enjoy going up against. And they'd still have a trip to Kenton. Also, WBL teams don't really struggle to get into the playoffs. Deserving teams have been in and now bubble teams will too with the expansion to 12. Plus as a WBL guy, I prefer playing the teams we're in a league with. :p

I get that the MAC has this rotation and the MAC is obviously the undisputed small school league in the state (and probably nation). What they have is working. No need to change anything. I'm not advocating that they should. I just had a question lol as it struck me as odd that in a way-too-early 2021 preview that Coldwater (perennial power) and Versailles (contender for the D5 state title) aren't going head-to-head. Seems like a missed opportunity for some great football.
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It was out of necessity. Versailles had some very lean years. As I stated, the league needed to add a team to get from having an open week all season, and when they added Anna they went to 1 OOC game. It is a two year cycle. The leagued acted QUICKLY and I commend them. If you do not evolve with the times, you get left behind.

There was some grumblings from the smaller schools as the most recent expansion was Versailles and Anna, which are larger schools.

I did some research the last few hours since it gets dark so darn early.

Being in WBL country for a long time we would discuss with the WBL folks often and never crunched the numbers until today.

When the MAC had just one OOC game, in 2006 and 2007, they got only 2 and 3 teams into the playoffs, with an 8 win team missing the postseason and they had won their OOC game and only lost to a 14 and 15 win teams.

Before Anna, the previous 5 years the league played 2 OOC games (and it was limited whom they could schedule in weeks 2-10) got the following teams into the playoffs: 4,4,4,3,4.

After going to the rotating schedule they got , 4,5,5,5,5,5.

Most years the league gets 5+ teams into the playoffs since adding Anna AND going to the rotating schedule.

Now lets look at NB, FR and Minster.

Within the last 6 seasons, this is their worst records before winning their recent titles:
NB: 0-10.
Minster: 1-9.
Ft Rec: 2-8.

All since going to this rotating schedule where they had the benefit of when they were climbing the ladder they didnt need to face the top teams.


The other title teams and their worst records in the previous 6:
CW: 9-4.
MSML: 3-7. MAC still had 3 OOC games.
SH: 5-4. MAC had at least 3 OOC games.
DSJ: 2-8. A caveat of this though is they had 5 titles in the previous 13 years, so personally I would not call that program down out like Minster, NB and FR was.
Anna: 3-7.

I dont have Versailles records from their old conference, but I am certain they were pretty darned good.

I had always wanted to look this up as we talked to family in the WBL often about how it likely would benefit them if they did the same thing.
 
Protect the Nest said:
Believe Cardinals have the following returning starters:
Offense - 3 (Kuck, Eyink and Bergman) Schaeffer returns, he started State Final.
Defense - 4 (Kuck, Krause, Alig and Homan)
Punter and Kicker return as well.
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Versailles had 21 Juniors this year.
Returning O
QB, FB, HB,HB, TE, LT, LG, C, RG,WR
Returning D
DE, DE, T, insideLB, outside LB, right Corner, left Corner,
If the boys get after it in the weight room, the future could be bright.
 
thavoice said:
I had always wanted to look this up as we talked to family in the WBL often about how it likely would benefit them if they did the same thing.
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I don't really see how it would. The WBL has larger schools than the MAC, don't really have issues with numbers on their rosters, and programs tend to bounce back on their own as it's a relatively competitive league top-to-bottom. Wapak and St Marys were already scrambling just to fill their 1 non-league game... and Wapak was supposed to play Holland Springfield. Who the heck cares about Springfield. Now you want to them to schedule two non-leagues? When we have an even 10-member league that's been stable for decades upon decades? I don't know, it's a hard sell. I'm glad that it works for the MAC and I hear what you're saying. It probably is a relief for the Parkways and DSJ's of the MAC.

The MAC is successful because they do what they do. Even bad MAC teams are better than the average D6-D7 team. When they play their out of league games, they almost always win them, as you said. It's just a different ballgame for the WBL. I think it's hard to use the MAC as an example of what other leagues could/should do, because... there isn't any league like the MAC. 9 of their 10 members have won a football state title? Insane. The MAC is an anomaly. A really terrific, amazing, celebrated anomaly. It's fine for different leagues to do different things. I just know in the WBL every year we get to see Wapak-St Marys or Kenton-OG, VW-Defiance. And I'm personally glad those don't rotate in and out.
 
As good as the MSML defense could potentially be next year, and with the talent returning at the running back position, maybe the Flyers commit to running the ball 90%. Even though Peyton is a threat at receiver, I kinda like the idea of having him at Qb for an additional running threat. We'll see what they ultimately go with.
 
thavoice said:
It was out of necessity. Versailles had some very lean years. As I stated, the league needed to add a team to get from having an open week all season, and when they added Anna they went to 1 OOC game. It is a two year cycle. The leagued acted QUICKLY and I commend them. If you do not evolve with the times, you get left behind.

There was some grumblings from the smaller schools as the most recent expansion was Versailles and Anna, which are larger schools.

I did some research the last few hours since it gets dark so darn early.

Being in WBL country for a long time we would discuss with the WBL folks often and never crunched the numbers until today.

When the MAC had just one OOC game, in 2006 and 2007, they got only 2 and 3 teams into the playoffs, with an 8 win team missing the postseason and they had won their OOC game and only lost to a 14 and 15 win teams.

Before Anna, the previous 5 years the league played 2 OOC games (and it was limited whom they could schedule in weeks 2-10) got the following teams into the playoffs: 4,4,4,3,4.

After going to the rotating schedule they got , 4,5,5,5,5,5.

Most years the league gets 5+ teams into the playoffs since adding Anna AND going to the rotating schedule.

Now lets look at NB, FR and Minster.

Within the last 6 seasons, this is their worst records before winning their recent titles:
NB: 0-10.
Minster: 1-9.
Ft Rec: 2-8.

All since going to this rotating schedule where they had the benefit of when they were climbing the ladder they didnt need to face the top teams.


The other title teams and their worst records in the previous 6:
CW: 9-4.
MSML: 3-7. MAC still had 3 OOC games.
SH: 5-4. MAC had at least 3 OOC games.
DSJ: 2-8. A caveat of this though is they had 5 titles in the previous 13 years, so personally I would not call that program down out like Minster, NB and FR was.
Anna: 3-7.

I dont have Versailles records from their old conference, but I am certain they were pretty darned good.

I had always wanted to look this up as we talked to family in the WBL often about how it likely would benefit them if they did the same thing.
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so having ONE non conference game is BAD.... having two non conference games is GOOD!!!!!
 
kodeman419 said:
Ill play this year...

1. Marion (championship Defense)
2a. Cavs
2b. Versailles
4. Cards
5a. St. Henry
5b. Minster
7. Anna
8. Fort
9. St. Johns
10. Parkway
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Cards placement is interesting, lose a ton of starters..... thinking how Minster and Anna had lost a ton of starters from last years team...... Minster not sure, while they struggled this year, they are losing senior starters from this year....time to see if kids step up next year....
 
tucson said:
I don't really see how it would. The WBL has larger schools than the MAC, don't really have issues with numbers on their rosters, and programs tend to bounce back on their own as it's a relatively competitive league top-to-bottom. Wapak and St Marys were already scrambling just to fill their 1 non-league game... and Wapak was supposed to play Holland Springfield. Who the heck cares about Springfield. Now you want to them to schedule two non-leagues? When we have an even 10-member league that's been stable for decades upon decades? I don't know, it's a hard sell. I'm glad that it works for the MAC and I hear what you're saying. It probably is a relief for the Parkways and DSJ's of the MAC.

The MAC is successful because they do what they do. Even bad MAC teams are better than the average D6-D7 team. When they play their out of league games, they almost always win them, as you said. It's just a different ballgame for the WBL. I think it's hard to use the MAC as an example of what other leagues could/should do, because... there isn't any league like the MAC. 9 of their 10 members have won a football state title? Insane. The MAC is an anomaly. A really terrific, amazing, celebrated anomaly. It's fine for different leagues to do different things. I just know in the WBL every year we get to see Wapak-St Marys or Kenton-OG, VW-Defiance. And I'm personally glad those don't rotate in and out.
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Wapak is having such a hard time finding one non league game that the Redskins ( will that still be their name next season ) swallowed their pride and are playing a lowly D - 7 school Marion Local.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
Wapak is having such a hard time finding one non league game that the Redskins ( will that still be their name next season ) swallowed their pride and are playing a lowly D - 7 school Marion Local.
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That will be a bloodbath.
Luckily with 12 teams making it next year the Flyers can afford that loss.

Is Wapak REALLY having that much trouble finding an opponent or are they just having a tough time finding a like sized/bigger program they are confident they can beat because they only have one OOC game and must find one they can realistically win?
 
bigkat said:
Cards placement is interesting, lose a ton of starters..... thinking how Minster and Anna had lost a ton of starters from last years team...... Minster not sure, while they struggled this year, they are losing senior starters from this year....time to see if kids step up next year....
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Nobody said I was smart ;)
I see the cards, cats and Henry at 4-5 wins. I gave the cards nod with the Mojo from this year.
 
I watch a lot of Junior High and JV football, especially this year when you could just walk right into any game, unlike varsity, and I don’t put much stock in wins and loses at that level, but you can see what kind of talent is in the pipeline. I also do not put a ton of stock in the post playoff non-league games from this year. What my eyes tell me is Marion & Coldwater are gonna be who they always are, Bremen and Versailles cupboards are far from bare, same with St Henry their numbers are just down a little. Anna and Fort have some talent coming, I just don’t have faith in their coaching staffs and Minster is going to need two or three guys to carry them, not recommended in the MAC. Parkway and DSJ are gonna be who they always are.
 
As always, the MAC is going to be strong in 2021. With 12 teams per region though, it may benefit the MAC even more than normal in 2021. I do believe Marion Local, Coldwater, New Bremen, and Versailles could be state champion level teams. But I also expect those teams sitting 5-8 to be very competitive teams. I could see a team like Minster, St. Henry, Fort Recovery, or Anna doing damage as a team that slips in one of those new playoff openings. As always, the league is somewhat capped due to the fact of multiple teams meeting in the same regions. Perhaps 2021 will be the year the league goes for 3 state championships.
 
thavoice said:
What will it take to make the playoffs?

In the i have no life, and a numbers guy, i wondered what it will take in the terms of wins to make it to the playoffs in the new format.

Since they added the 7th division, below are the percentages in Division 5, 6 and 7 that the teams have made the playoffs with a certain amount of wins.

Of course, it depends on a lot of other factors, but it gives a little insight on what has been the chances since the 7 division format was adopted.

DIVISION 5:
10 wins: 100%
9 wins: 100%
8 wins: 100%
7 wins: 93.3 %
6 wins: 65.9%
5 wins: 40.2 %
4 wins: 9.9 %
3 wins: only one team would have finished in the top 12 with 3 wins, and I did not track all the 3 win teams who did NOT make it.


DIVISION 6:
10, 9, 8 wins: 100%
7 wins: 90.2%
6 wins: 66.3%
5 wins: 22.6%
4 wins: 3.6%
3 and below: ZERO.


DIVISION 7:
8-10 wins: 100%
7 wins: 98.4%
6 wins: 91.3%
5 wins: 65.7
4 wins: 35.7
3 wins: 4 teams would have finished in the top 12, did not track all three win teams who did make it.


What does this all mean, other than I have zero life?

Nothing, but sort of lets you know the target number of wins your team is going to need and their chances.
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I think this is useful info. The one thing that could possible slant the numbers to benefit the teams from the MAC, is that 1) Their two OOC games 2) The league wins those games at a rather high clip. If the MAC has a year where they really take care of business in the OOC, it'll definitely give them the edge they need to slide in another playoff team or two.

Will they reshuffle the playoff divisions next season?
 
ex_dc_atc said:
I think this is useful info. The one thing that could possible slant the numbers to benefit the teams from the MAC, is that 1) Their two OOC games 2) The league wins those games at a rather high clip. If the MAC has a year where they really take care of business in the OOC, it'll definitely give them the edge they need to slide in another playoff team or two.

Will they reshuffle the playoff divisions next season?
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If you are a league who does well outside of your conference, OOC games are your friend.

For those that do not they prefer the .500 nature of league matchups.
The strength of any conference is how they do in their OOC and playoffs. If the MAC had not gone the route of a rotating schedule and kept just one OOC game I wholeheartedly believe we do not see all these teams having the success they currently experience.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
Wapak is having such a hard time finding one non league game that the Redskins ( will that still be their name next season ) swallowed their pride and are playing a lowly D - 7 school Marion Local.
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I'm not really sure what the tone of your post is supposed to be here. From my understanding, most folks have been begging for a MAC-WBL match-up like this. At any rate, 11-time state champion Marion Local should be considered the favorite in that match-up against 0-time regional champ Wapakoneta. Marion Local has beat teams Wapak's size (or bigger) in past years.

thavoice said:
Is Wapak REALLY having that much trouble finding an opponent or are they just having a tough time finding a like sized/bigger program they are confident they can beat because they only have one OOC game and must find one they can realistically win?
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I'm not sure. You'd have to ask the Wapak coach or AD. I'd imagine they'd prefer playing a school their size and a competitive match-up, so it's mutually benefical, but I don't think a home-and-home with Marion Local is terrible. I think they'll likely get swept 0-2 in that series, but it's better than a trip up to Holland Springfield which didn't have a return trip. I think I maybe heard that Wapak may have been in talks with Dresden Tri-Valley, but those were either rumors or the talks didn't stick. St Marys Memorial also originally had a home-and-home series with Dayton Thurgood Marshall, which wasn't a very compelling match-up. They luckily got that replaced with London for the next 2 years which will be a much better series. But yeah, I'd say from an outsiders standpoint it seems like Wapak and St Marys had to go through some hoops to find new non-con opponents due to Bellefontaine and Sidney, respectively, dropping them to face one another.
 
Wapak has seemed pretty happy with playing their final scrimmage against Minster for many years now.

And while I would say Wapak has been the better team most years, comparing the result of that scrimmage with Wapak's results in the WBL convince me Minster would be in the middle of the WBL pack most years.

I expect ML-Wapak to be a very good matchup, much like CW-Kenton is.
 
Why has St. Johns been so down the past few years. They have a legendary program. I was there several years ago when ML ended their long win streak.
 
Rangerfan said:
Wapak has seemed pretty happy with playing their final scrimmage against Minster for many years now.

And while I would say Wapak has been the better team most years, comparing the result of that scrimmage with Wapak's results in the WBL convince me Minster would be in the middle of the WBL pack most years.

I expect ML-Wapak to be a very good matchup, much like CW-Kenton is.
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Been a long time since the CW - Kenton series has been a good match up.
 
Would someone please list the MAC teams that won't play each other next season (if all 10 regular season games are played)?

I can't remember, for instance, whom ML was supposed to 'skip' this season because of the shortened season - I think it was Parkway. In 2020 ML ended up not facing Anna, Parkway, and Coldwater.
 
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