cincifbfan
Well-known member
Your point?
Confirmed Covid Shutdowns- OHIO
- Thread starter TheDuq
- Start date
Irish60
Well-known member
Don't be so simple... My post only had to do with whether the plaintiff would be able to show where he contracted the virus. Of course the lawsuit would need to be based on more than the kids getting sick. As set forth in other posts, there are (or will be) protocols put into place. If those protocols are not followed and if kids get sick, then that will be enough to form the basis of a lawsuit. Now, as far as damages go, that would be determined by how sick the child gets.
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psycho_dad
Well-known member
We can all argue all we want. Some people think it's silly and we should be back to 100% normal and anyone over 80 isn't a human being. Some people think it's a pandemic and worthy of preventative measures. Some people are scared to death. Some people are not at all concerned. None of that matters. I do not decide if Schools open of if there is Football or any other HS sport. No matter what side you fall on, we all want there to be sports for the kids. When the NFL cancels the Hall of Fame game, it starts to look bleak and other things could get cancelled. There is no national plan. Chaos is not a plan. If numbers spike, it's easy for people in charge to just shut things down. That's easy. Coming up with ways to make things happen is hard. I might choose to do what is hard, but the real people in charge almost always choose easy. We can have different opinions, but the ultimate goal should be to work together to get a working plan in place. Throwing our hands up and saying just open in up, is probably not going to be the working plan. Where are the solutions?
Irish60
Well-known member
Damages are an entirely different question. To be successful in this type of lawsuit, the plaintiff would need to show: 1. that he contracted the virus at a football game, for example (this is what our back and forth has been about); 2. that there was a breach of duty by the defendant (a breach of some protocol that has been (or will be) put into place; 3. that the breach of the duty was the proximate cause of the injury; and 4. the extent of damages. Now, if the young player gets sick and fully recovers with no long term injuries, then his damages would be minimal. But, damages could also include punitive damages depending upon the nature of the defendant's breach of duty if it is egregious, for example. Further, if family members of the kid contract the virus from him, there could be liability there since one could argue it was foreseeable that a kid would go home with his parents. There are a lot of layers to any sort of litigation, and an industrious attorney could certainly find ways to assert damages.
winbypin
Well-known member
No doubt attorneys would try to find some damages. It's one of the problems with our society but that is a different discussion altogether.
I guess I fall on the side of personal responsibility. If I allow my child to play and he brings the illness home, I knew the risks. That's on me.
I agree there will be protocols (temperature taking, etc) and if schools or teams are willingly not following them then that is a much better case. But if they are following to the letter and someone still gets it then you can only do so much if you are going to have school and sports.
An even more interesting scenario to consider....what if kids have mild symptoms but take some ibuprofen before heading to practice, school, or games to mask the fever....what then?
bkmk1
Well-known member
For the downplayers of this virus, there must be something different about COVID versus the flu because:
1. the flu has a season. It usually starts around November/December and ends/goes away around April. But Covid has no season or end and just keeps hammering away. Why isn't Covid just going away??
2. we know for fact that it is way more contagious than the flu.
3. the flu has never cancelled hundreds/thousands of games or called for games with little to no fans in the NBA, NHL, MLB and possibly NFL, college football, HS football.
So what's really going on? Especially they are doing it despite losing massive amounts of $$$. Would love to hear a logical explanation since it is just a minor flu?.
1. the flu has a season. It usually starts around November/December and ends/goes away around April. But Covid has no season or end and just keeps hammering away. Why isn't Covid just going away??
2. we know for fact that it is way more contagious than the flu.
3. the flu has never cancelled hundreds/thousands of games or called for games with little to no fans in the NBA, NHL, MLB and possibly NFL, college football, HS football.
So what's really going on? Especially they are doing it despite losing massive amounts of $$$. Would love to hear a logical explanation since it is just a minor flu?.
Concussion is not the same as pneumonia and C-19.
The difference is the tracking and charting. We all know people that have had the flu in all months. But nobody cares to keep those records.
Irish60
Well-known member
You are absolutely right that there is personal responsibility on the part of the parents who let their children play football. And there is absolutely an assumption of the risk. BUT, there is also personal responsibility on the part of the school and the coaching staff to do what is right, to follow prescribed protocols. And this is where things could get really dicey when the government isn't particularly explicit about what those protocols are, or allow them to be different from school system to school system. This could really be putting the schools in a no win situation.
I'll add another layer to your scenario. What if the kid with the mild symptoms is given the ibuprofen by the coach?
bkmk1
Well-known member
What does tracking and charting have to do with COVID just pummeling us with no end date in sight and the flu ending? And I really hope you aren't going to tell me it's a numbers thing.
IF you know anyone deep in the medical field ask them to give totals of Flu cases a year and the totals for flu deaths in elderly and people with respiratory issues. You will be amazed. In the school district I live in we had a 35 year old teacher die from the flu early in the school year. Never even made the local paper.
So in your vast knowledge of C-19 in the state since Jan, you know this new virus has no season. But we both have knowledge of people who have had the flu outside of what you consider to be the "Flu Season". But to be clear I never said they were the same.
winbypin
Well-known member
Not going away because it is new and all the restrictions kept people from getting it. People getting the flu help it have seasons.
Is it really more contagious than the flu? Link to that? Even if it is, is it more deadly? I don't want to get sick from anything but if I am not going to end up in the hospital or dead, I will roll the dice. Like I have been doing for 50 years or so.
No kidding the flu hasn't canceled all this stuff. That's kind of the point. Why now or should we expect all these shutdowns every year as part of the "new normal"?
bkmk1
Well-known member
Many are saying this is nothing. And I still don't get why the sports and school world has stopped, delayed, and have so much uncertainty about this with all the money they have at stake If it is not that big a deal. And by you just defending the flu and it's season tells me enough. The people that still have the flu beyond the season are outliers. It happens, and is not the norm.
winbypin
Well-known member
I agree with what you said. I thought I said similar things about following protocol.
If s coach gives it or tells the player to take it..... probably death by firing squad. I am only half joking there. But clearly that dude is screwed.
bkmk1
Well-known member
So if the flu hasn't shut all these things down, then why is Covid?
I don't know anyone that has said C-19 is "nothing". But the severity has definitely been reduced over the last 3 months. At least by those who are seeing the facts objectively. "If your search it to find the truth you must begin without judgment".
winbypin
Well-known member
Because sports leagues, teams, school, etc are afraid of being hit with frivolous lawsuits. In today's blame everyone else culture it's a losing proposition.
winbypin
Well-known member
Yes, why?
But we have cancelled things due to the flu previously. Schools, etc have been shut down due to local outbreaks. To the scale we have with covid, no. Looking back, it seems like a complete waste. But hindsight is always 20/20.
I wonder if some action was taken or if this was just magic?
brianwr112
Well-known member
If one single case get's heard you're talking about years of litigation, appeals and such before there's a final decision. During this time people will continue to file suits costing schools a ton of money in legal fees. And right now with the courts being extremely backlogged a judge probably wouldn't even get a chance to review a case for months. It's not like you file and then it's either rejected or accepted right away.
winbypin
Well-known member
Ok. Your speculation is noted.
Irish60
Well-known member
If the goal of the shutdown was to flatten the curve, then maybe it wasn't a waste. If you look at the states that really were Draconian with their shutdowns (like NY and other northeastern states) the numbers really look pretty promising. States that did not have such a harsh shut down or rushed to re-open without much of a plan are the ones where you are seeing drastic spikes in cases. I'm not sure any state is testing more than NY and their numbers continue to drop. California seems to be the outlier where there was a hard shutdown, but the numbers continue to stay up there. We hear a lot about the numbers in Florida, Texas and Arizona in the sporting news cycles because that's where baseball and basketball have been talking about starting and/or finishing their respective seasons. But the spike in the numbers are making everyone rethink those locations. As far as Ohio is concerned, the numbers seemed to have decreased and plateaued. There has been a slight surge, but that was to be expected because we re-opened, at least to some extent. So in my mind, the numbers in Ohio are promising. So in that regard, the shutdown has not been a waste. Now you can certainly argue that it is not as deadly as we feared it could be. And thank God for that! So when you compare the economic cost to the societal cost, you can certainly make the argument that the shutdown was done with too heavy of a hand. But your point about hindsight is correct. And who knows whether this virus has more ominous turns for us. Already you are seeing a rise in cases of people under the age of 30. And the physical effects on those who do become ill from the virus are downright horrifying! I am hoping that with all Ohioans have gone through that we are in a position to continue to move forward. We certainly seem to be in better stead than a lot of other states!
I was referring to the thoughts in the medical field as to the severity of the virus it self. I am not discharging the thought that social distancing helped in flattening the curve of spreading. In December medical experts said this was nothing to worry about. In March it was going to wipe out a large portion of our country in 30 days. In June the same experts suggest safe practices and recommend good health choices to control it. Lots of changes have been made. Of course we have learned a lot too.
Paladin1aa
Well-known member
Many of these arguments are around the deaths ? Besides those thousands or tens of thousands, what about the thousands who don’t die but have scarred and inflamed lungs that they suffer with for life ? The new concern is for the asymptomatic, especially the young. X-rays of their lungs show the beginning of scarring without the pain at this time. But what are the future consequences? Next year ? A decade ? And let’s forget about those who recover but spend months in a hospital suffering. This for a game ?
And people don’t see lawsuits ?
And people don’t see lawsuits ?
winbypin
Well-known member
Just for a game? Of course not. But we can't hide from it indefinitely either.
bkmk1
Well-known member
Then it must be pretty powerful for all the organizations and people to be afraid of a lawsuit. Says a lot!
These are fair points but with respect to comparing states like NY to Fl & TX we need to note that Florida & TX will have to have a lot more deaths over the next 6 months just to catch up with NY.
Deaths per One Million People:
NY = 1612
Fl = 155
TX = 79
And I think it's reasonable to assume that the collateral damage from shutting things done will end up being a lot less in Fl & TX then in NY. And that collateral damage may ultimately prove to be as bad or even worse then that caused by the virus.
I get why folks are panicking at the case load surges in Fl & TX but looking at all the data these two states have done a lot better then places like NY & NJ.