Thavoice
Well-known member
True. NOthing against that squad but they had a very tough act to follow. To say a 9-4 team was the worst in over 20 years just shows how strong the program has been
Undefeated Gibsonburg Could Miss OHSAA Football Playoffs...See Why
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Hammerdrill
Well-known member
Rivalries vs schools nearby, who are not in your division, are a great thing. Isn't that the case where you live?
Sykotyk
Well-known member
You can still play non district games. Just like now.
HighSchoolFB45
Well-known member
They weren’t the best Coldwater team ever but I for sure believe they would have won D5 that year. They were 7-3, but lost to DIV runner up Clinton-Massie, possibly the best Marion Local team ever and DVI champ, and a St. John’s team that would have won DVII is Minster wasn’t DVII. Coldwater also beat 11-4 DVII state champ Minster. The best team in DV were... Wheelersburg? Eastwood? Coldwater would have won state on just the program itself.
Mighty MAC
New member
There also could have been the option to raise Marion Local up to D5. If they had little competition in D6/D7 going to state finals multiple times and having the win percentage they do...they would add competition to D5. There are several states that do this in multiple sports...if you win state championship you play up the following year.
I really don't understand the" against the MAC conference" argument, especially when its multiple divisions. Those teams are playing in multiple regions against multiple OOC teams. If they win they win and move on. People complain about the "privates" being dominate. I can get that when there is a tuition being paid (recruiting? who knows..), a family chooses to go to that school. These are public schools playing with the boys they have each year. Its like having the attitude of "we don't want to play Ohio State...Clemson...Alabama...they are too good (because they are the current dominates)... but I see a tremendous amount to fans for these teams regardless. They know its good football and they enjoy it. They make money from the fans.
Sunuvaditchdigger
Member
From someone who has a local perspective on the Gibsonburg situation, this one was more unavoidable than many posters think.
The reflexive reaction is "play up". Gibsonburg swapped out a 2-8 non-conference for a team likely to be 6-4. Before the '18 season, Sycamore Mohawk joined the schedule, playing the 10-0 team to a scoreless tie for 3½ quarters. Who'd have thought that Mohawk was headed for a three or four loss season the next year? Tiffin Calvert, now a conference opponent, always plays a tough non-league schedule, attested to by their frequent playoff bids at 5-5 and 6-4, yet this year ended their non-conference schedule at 1-2. And, the unfortunate timing of Sandusky St. Mary dropping 11-man a few weeks before the season was huge, dropping the number of even-number-of-wins-and-losses league games from 28 to 21. Three of the Sandusky Bay River teams were unable to find opponents, which lowered the divisors, making the dismal out-of-conference aggregate for the league (5-16, other than Gibsonburg) an even larger factor. Gibsonburg, hearing of their now open week with SMCC, knew that the Green Meadows Conference probably had a team in a similar situation, having just had Holgate also drop their 11-man season, and called on Antwerp, just coming off of a respectable 6-4 season. No one knew at the time that they were on their way to (at least) 0-8. There is a lot going on; the results are unfortunate, but it doesn't seem like a team ducking competition or negligence in the Athletic scheduling office. Seriously, in a normal year, in a normal Region, beating Calvert and Mohawk should qualify a team at 7-3. But, "coulda' shoulda'", the players can only beat the teams put in front of them.
There is no doubt that Region 23 is loaded. Gibsonburg folks were looking at that map in August and knew it was going to be problematic. At the end of week 4, those in the know already knew that well-placed losses by others were going to be required. The Regional map was strange this year; I don't recall a single smaller-school-division map in which the the four regions didn't radiate out from Williams, Ashtabula, Hamilton, andMarietta Meigs (did I really screw that up?) Counties, whichever region had the fewest native members in its corner getting Columbus. This year the entire eastern part of the state is a region, north-central is a region, northwest to darn-near Dayton, then southwest to Columbus. Gibsonburg has moved from northeast R21, to northwest R22, to "traditionally" southwest R23 in a few years. The R23 teams that make the playoffs all deserve it, at least two or three others in that region could deserve in, and some monster team with multiple big-game experiences is going to come out of there in week 14.
The reflexive reaction is "play up". Gibsonburg swapped out a 2-8 non-conference for a team likely to be 6-4. Before the '18 season, Sycamore Mohawk joined the schedule, playing the 10-0 team to a scoreless tie for 3½ quarters. Who'd have thought that Mohawk was headed for a three or four loss season the next year? Tiffin Calvert, now a conference opponent, always plays a tough non-league schedule, attested to by their frequent playoff bids at 5-5 and 6-4, yet this year ended their non-conference schedule at 1-2. And, the unfortunate timing of Sandusky St. Mary dropping 11-man a few weeks before the season was huge, dropping the number of even-number-of-wins-and-losses league games from 28 to 21. Three of the Sandusky Bay River teams were unable to find opponents, which lowered the divisors, making the dismal out-of-conference aggregate for the league (5-16, other than Gibsonburg) an even larger factor. Gibsonburg, hearing of their now open week with SMCC, knew that the Green Meadows Conference probably had a team in a similar situation, having just had Holgate also drop their 11-man season, and called on Antwerp, just coming off of a respectable 6-4 season. No one knew at the time that they were on their way to (at least) 0-8. There is a lot going on; the results are unfortunate, but it doesn't seem like a team ducking competition or negligence in the Athletic scheduling office. Seriously, in a normal year, in a normal Region, beating Calvert and Mohawk should qualify a team at 7-3. But, "coulda' shoulda'", the players can only beat the teams put in front of them.
There is no doubt that Region 23 is loaded. Gibsonburg folks were looking at that map in August and knew it was going to be problematic. At the end of week 4, those in the know already knew that well-placed losses by others were going to be required. The Regional map was strange this year; I don't recall a single smaller-school-division map in which the the four regions didn't radiate out from Williams, Ashtabula, Hamilton, and
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Thavoice
Well-known member
The tradition factor that they tried to float through in the Competitive Balance debates was what sunk it. It was universally despised.
Mighty MAC
New member
Agreed they are geographic...the state has some leeway in adjusting the counties and or splitting schools to help that. One difference with football though.-Not all schools go into post season. In every other sport all teams play sectionals, and can advance to districts, regionals and pending on how those are divided north/south east/west it can be difficult or help distribute the competition. No disrespect to track, but an elite kid has the ability to have some post season as they can qualify as an individual regardless of how strong or weak the team is. D1 in general would be difficult (in theory) to advance regardless. The theory is bigger schools, more kids...not guaranteed to make teams and and only the better kids complete from the beginning. Most D6, D7 schools I know of take all kids that go out.
Hammerdrill
Well-known member
But it doesn't really matter if they all get in, the goal is to advance, and it is a lot harder in some regions than others. This is true in every sport. It is so rare that someone deserving gets left out. My kid was on the wrong end of it one year in football. Sometimes that is just the way it goes.
Mighty MAC
New member
Agree with the unknowns...in August there were a few more teams being figured into the mix of being a contender in the region...Saint Henry went from being a strong team to a 1 win team and Fort Recovery will probably end with 3 wins. Also understand about looking for teams. Discussion last week was finding out of conference games for next year. Between Coldwater and Marion Local one has both week 1 and 2 open and the other week 2. Minster also has week 2 open. The 8 man team ball will impact more teams in coming years. Those teams thinking about it need to have a deadline in late spring to allow enough time to find and rearrange schedules previously planned.
Sunuvaditchdigger
Member
Looking forward to next year, I wonder if Norwalk St. Paul has a multi-year deal with Northgate PA.
The SBC-River and TAAC both lost one team to 8-man this year, and both will lose an additional team to 8-man next year. From a relative size perspective the leagues match up well. It would make sense for two six-team leagues to have a cross-over arrangement for weeks 4 and 5. If that were to happen, Gibsonburg and Ottawa Hills can't play non-conference in Week 1, because they might be up in the rotation for a cross-over later in the year. Calvert and Fremont St. Joe play St. Paul regularly. Maybe NSP might like a D6 game against an opponent with a good record for the past several years that is likely to generate some monster points for the winner, that doesn't involve trips across multiple area codes?
Of course, MAC aside, most D6 and D7 teams are pretty cyclical, and I trust that the admins involved wouldn't jump in if they were unsure what to expect from their own program next year. I'm just spitballing for a way to increase Harbins in an area that kind of became a point-desert this year.
The SBC-River and TAAC both lost one team to 8-man this year, and both will lose an additional team to 8-man next year. From a relative size perspective the leagues match up well. It would make sense for two six-team leagues to have a cross-over arrangement for weeks 4 and 5. If that were to happen, Gibsonburg and Ottawa Hills can't play non-conference in Week 1, because they might be up in the rotation for a cross-over later in the year. Calvert and Fremont St. Joe play St. Paul regularly. Maybe NSP might like a D6 game against an opponent with a good record for the past several years that is likely to generate some monster points for the winner, that doesn't involve trips across multiple area codes?
Of course, MAC aside, most D6 and D7 teams are pretty cyclical, and I trust that the admins involved wouldn't jump in if they were unsure what to expect from their own program next year. I'm just spitballing for a way to increase Harbins in an area that kind of became a point-desert this year.
Mighty MAC
New member
True the goal is to advance. The state started to play God with the balance thing...and thats where it starts to be a problem.
LetsGoQuakers
Well-known member
Only a bad league cause they did everything they could to avoid playing with the big boys of the IVC
Hammerdrill
Well-known member
That's a different argument. The only "fair" way would be to take the top 32 Harbin points teams and seed a bracket. So no geographic regions at all.
Sykotyk
Well-known member
That game only happened because Northgate canceled against their week 1 opponent, Mcguffey, who was 2A and resulted in knocking their starting qb out for the season in 2018. So Northgate opted to just forfeit it and not risk it again.
So depends who they're scheduled to play next year. I doubt Mcguffey will be it.
Sykotyk
Well-known member
Fair, yes. Economical, no.
A statewide first round might double the travel budget and longer travel for fans means fewer fans. Have to keep it regional to some extent in the first couple rounds.
ghsknightsfan
love the Knights and Grey Ghosts!
really the best of both worlds is to take the best 32, divide them up regionally regardless of seeding, and then rank them 1-8 that way. it's fair and will usually play out well geographically. the downside of this is youre not exactly competing with your area teams for a playoff spot, you're competing with the whole state.
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Hammerdrill
Well-known member
Oh for sure. And changing things drastically simply because of these rare occurrences makes little sense.
Orange20hd
Member
Agreed Top 32 is the wat to go. Region 22 could potentially have a 5-5 Carey make with less points. Not really on opposite side of state either only 45 minutes away. Seems really unfair for Gibsonburg.
Raylan_Givens
Always right, unless I'm wrong
True. And had they stayed in PAC years ago they’d have 2-3 playoff team on league schedule every year.
One of the reason some teams are seemingly always good, they stay in good leagues and/or schedule well. No way to know when those magic years/groups come together. You either commit to being a playoff team or you take easy route & ask for sympathy in the years when have a good team & weak schedule bites you
justalurker
Active member
Thats easy to say when you are at the top looking down. I live around the OHC, CCC, and NWCC, and they are like a combined 0-60 against the MAC in the playoffs. I know they would much rather lose to the MAC in week 14 than in week 11 or 12. Gives them a chance to win a regional title. They can compete with everyone not named the MAC ok. But the MAC is a different animal. I just know fans around here are happy not to have to deal with them till later.
Logically stated and well put. I generally agree with the assessment about how this year’s team appears like it’s going to be a victim of circumstances.
I think if things play out for Gibsonburg they’ll have more overall computer points than they did last season when they were 9-1 and 2nd in region 22. Top that off with a possibility that a 5-5 Carey team with 7 fewer computer points will get in....smh.
Gibsonburg as far as my memory goes hasn’t scheduled a tough out of conference schedule because frankly they weren’t that good. They had a string of perhaps 10 or so seasons without a winning record (playing in the SLL, it’s true they helped hasten the demise of that league). Back in 2014 they missed the playoffs at 9-1 playing in the TAAC, ranked 10th in region 22. The past four seasons they’ve hosted 2 home playoff games getting hammered and the 2 other road games they lost as well. This season is less about scheduling bad teams or playing in a bad league. Gibsonburg should have started scheduling better out of conference games 6 years ago when their program turned things around but grew content playing and winning games against bad teams. Playing Toledo city league teams or other larger division schools is a great idea, just not one Gibsonburg scheduling would ever do.
This year’s Gibsonburg is different than previous seasons playoff teams. Although they may not beat a top 4 region 23 team it would be more competitive than many of you think. They have three outstanding running backs that would very difficult to stop.
The next few years will likely drop off significantly for Gibsonburg due to graduation, hard to say when they’ll be in the playoff discussion again.
RollingTrain
Well-known member
I am in favor of the top 32 thing...heck, there are aready long road trips the way the regions are setup now. Eastwood and Orrville are in the same region for god sakes. New Middletown Springfield and Glouster Trimble are in the same region.....so what does it really matter? Elmwood traveled to Coldwater for a SECTIONAL semi-final match-up in volleyball. Going to super-sectionals in basketball, volleyball, etc have killed off what used to be a local postseason.
RollingTrain
Well-known member
Scheduling isn't easy....at all. And it's very hard to get teams to play you when you have a history of winning - just saying. I look for teams for my school to play all the time and we get no reply more often than a reply.
northwest07
Well-known member
I like the idea of the top 32 teams in each division getting in. Hopefully that way, we are getting the 32 best teams in each division.
I did talk to Mike Lee last week and this is not an unfamiliar situation for him. He was the coach of St. Wendelin back in the 80s. In a three-year stretch, they went 10-0, 9-1, and 10-0 in the regular season. They got in the playoffs in the 9-1 and missed both times at 10-0. The 9-1 team finished at the state runners-up and Mike argues that the second 10-0 team was better than the state runners-up team.
I did talk to Mike Lee last week and this is not an unfamiliar situation for him. He was the coach of St. Wendelin back in the 80s. In a three-year stretch, they went 10-0, 9-1, and 10-0 in the regular season. They got in the playoffs in the 9-1 and missed both times at 10-0. The 9-1 team finished at the state runners-up and Mike argues that the second 10-0 team was better than the state runners-up team.
RollingTrain
Well-known member
It was really tough to get in the playoffs in the early 80's. They didn't take many teams.
Maple_City_Fan
Well-known member
Regarding St. Paul, this year was going to be the last year playing SMCC, but as we all know, Panthers went to 8-man, and Flyers picked up Pittsburgh area school.
At any rate, Huron Tigers has been the Week 1 replacement for St. Paul Flyers.
At any rate, Huron Tigers has been the Week 1 replacement for St. Paul Flyers.
Bruce Monnin
Well-known member
I would LOVE to see the political back and forth as they try to make those regions. And they would have to do it all by early Sunday so coaches could quickly scramble for video, as there would be no in person scouting as no one would have any idea who they are playing in the playoffs.
RollingTrain
Well-known member
With HUDL being used now, I think in person scouting as gone a bit by the wayside.
I'm not so sure travel would increase all that much with the way regions are set up now. There are very few regions now that don't have a 2+ hour possible travel trip should the teams match up. Each year there are a handful of 3+ hour trips. Would that really change all that much taking the top 32?
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