After Steve Gentry’s season ended in districts last year when his deer park team lost he said 100% they will be back at state next year. Well he wasn’t lying. Seems him and his staff went hard on the recruiting trail this off season. I counted 4-5 new faces on their squad yesterday and let’s so they aren’t incoming freshmen. Tre Munson from roger bacon. Curtis Harrison from seven hills. 2 guys I believe played in northern Kentucky last year and Taylor high schools best player last year. Saw him play twice he is very good. Not sure what more impressive the coaches ability to to convince families to move to play basketball, or the board and the deer park community coming together to make this Ohsaa major violation happen. Either way it’s impressive. We will hear all the different reasons. It’s cheaper (which I promise the 2 private kids were paying very little or anything at all) maybe the homeless card again. Before it starts getting crazy again let’s just all agree now it’s for basketball reasons only. The deer park fans will all be back this year after disappearing last year to all the moeller games. They will have a great team again for next season. Congrats Wildcats!
Coach Gentry wasn’t lying
- Thread starter Youknow
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wow, that is a head scratcher. Why would you leave one of the top academic schools in the city your senior year for Deer Park education and basketball? My only reasoning would be maybe because he failed to get any serious looks in AAU so he possibly thinks a state championship run would give him better exposure???
Here's the thing: The transfer laws changed last year. There really is no "homeless" exemption. By federal law the school must educate them, but OHSAA does not have to allow them to play sports. The transfer rules do allow an exemption if you are going from private to your "home" public district. In the Munson case "Forest Park" is his home district. He has not lived in Deer Park the required year and you can bet RB will report his address he has had all school year there and when you still own a home that is not in Deer Park then that is not really showing a legit move. Just getting an apartment in Deer Park is not enough nor does it no allow him to attend RB anymore nor would a move by Harrison into the district make him no longer able to attend Seven Hills. Harrison would need to go to Finneytown if he wants to play for his public school, which would be allowed by transfer exemption.
Really will be interesting to see how DP tries to gets these kids eligible to play all season. Perhaps they were all being bullied at their old schools, or are now having to be "self supporting" working 40 hours a week to pay for their food and apartment or maybe Gentry is going to go to court and get custody of them because they were being "abused, neglected or ruled delinquency/unruliness"
Here's the thing: The transfer laws changed last year. There really is no "homeless" exemption. By federal law the school must educate them, but OHSAA does not have to allow them to play sports. The transfer rules do allow an exemption if you are going from private to your "home" public district. In the Munson case "Forest Park" is his home district. He has not lived in Deer Park the required year and you can bet RB will report his address he has had all school year there and when you still own a home that is not in Deer Park then that is not really showing a legit move. Just getting an apartment in Deer Park is not enough nor does it no allow him to attend RB anymore nor would a move by Harrison into the district make him no longer able to attend Seven Hills. Harrison would need to go to Finneytown if he wants to play for his public school, which would be allowed by transfer exemption.
Really will be interesting to see how DP tries to gets these kids eligible to play all season. Perhaps they were all being bullied at their old schools, or are now having to be "self supporting" working 40 hours a week to pay for their food and apartment or maybe Gentry is going to go to court and get custody of them because they were being "abused, neglected or ruled delinquency/unruliness"
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Kurt Rambis
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uhm...
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Here we go again...First, the CHL schools should simply refuse to play them OR Secondly, the league should just expel them. Simple move but requires cohones and Gentry will play the race card as he did 2 years ago. Saying their administration allows this is laughable...as I stated before the AD looks and acts like the manager of a rundown dog track in rural Florida. The problem is the OHSAA is not an enforcement agency. It is a bunch of suits with day jobs that meet every 6 weeks or so to iron out budgets, run the state tournaments and debate rule changes. They rely on self-reporting of violations and big surprise there are very few...If you read the minutes there is rarely anything reported in the revenue sports of Football and Basketball...the violations seem to be swimming, tennis, soccer etc...This will need to be addressed by the CHL and it's member schools. Most of the AD's in the league are spineless...just collecting a nice check and trying to keep everyone happy (not the Wyoming AD...she is a fire cracker!). Why Gentry didn't just start his traveling circus at a school with open enrollment is a mystery...unless you follow the $$ trail :Ohno:
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I just saw that DP hired a new AD..Ironically his previous jobs were as directors of recruiting for college athletics...
He has been there for 2 years when Taylor left. Relative is on school board!
The schools in the association aren't willing to spend the money it would take to move beyond reliance on self-enforcement, and even if they were it probably wouldn't do much good. True enforcement requires subpoena power--you'll note that even at university level the real action only comes when there's a wire or tax fraud charge that gets the FBI or IRS involved.
Expulsion, on the other hand.... With one brief exception at Reading a while back, none of the CHL schools have ever gone in for this sort of thing even on a small scale. It's the point of having a league, really--I don't really expect to be able to compete on a state level ever again in anything, I hope we'd never hire anyone willing to do what seems to be necessary now. But at least there was fair competition in the regular season.
I don't think the other schools in the league want to play this way, and I think the only alternative is a restructuring. Maybe the MVC would be willing to put up with this, or maybe DP would need to be independent for a while until they turn themselves into something some league would be willing to have as a member.
I honestly don't see a way Deer Park can get these kids eligible to play all season. Even if they submit paperwork it can always be challenged and a good likelihood it will be at playoff time. Remember Clark Montessori having to forfeit their game and CHCA moving on in their place. I believe Finneytown reported them because player really wasn't legally living with grandparents and then the McElfresh kid was ruled ineligible cause he was reported.
What a joke. That’s being an AAU coach, not a high school coach. Get out and get yourself an AAU team!
MooseJaw
Well-known member
Well, actually, Gentry is often lying, but maybe not in the case of being back in state finals. Looks like Deer Park Elite is back. What a disgrace to high school athletics and absolutely embarrassing for the OHSAA. Deer Park has made a complete joke of your rules and you are either 1) powerless to do anything or 2) don't care...not sure which is worse. They did it two years ago and it is still happening. This is an AAU team, nothing more.
The only option is if the other CHL AD's and Superintendents grow a spine and kick them out of the league. This schools mission plan is clearly not in line with the rest of the league. There are plenty of other schools that would be thrilled to take Deer Park's spot in the CHL.
And finally, how frustrating it must be for the kids that actually grew up/live in Deer Park that wanted to play basketball (if there are any). Every year a new crop of recruits rolls in and takes away your spot on the team. Gentry, you aren't a coach, you don't develop talent, you don't care about the community that you coach in, you just convince high school kids to come play on your team so you can satisfy your selfish definition of success. Are the Deer Park people just this stupid or starved for some "success" that they sit back and allow this to happen so they can go cheer and buy a state champs t shirt? The whole thing is so pathetic on so many levels.
The only option is if the other CHL AD's and Superintendents grow a spine and kick them out of the league. This schools mission plan is clearly not in line with the rest of the league. There are plenty of other schools that would be thrilled to take Deer Park's spot in the CHL.
And finally, how frustrating it must be for the kids that actually grew up/live in Deer Park that wanted to play basketball (if there are any). Every year a new crop of recruits rolls in and takes away your spot on the team. Gentry, you aren't a coach, you don't develop talent, you don't care about the community that you coach in, you just convince high school kids to come play on your team so you can satisfy your selfish definition of success. Are the Deer Park people just this stupid or starved for some "success" that they sit back and allow this to happen so they can go cheer and buy a state champs t shirt? The whole thing is so pathetic on so many levels.
That's an example of how hard it is to get self-reporting to work.
The player was said to be living with his grandmother while his parents were out of the country. They weren't. An investigator probably could have figured that out in a few minutes, but in the absence of any such person who would report it? You'd need to both (1) know the parents were still here and (2) know that the reason the association had granted eligibility was because they were supposed to be gone. Not many people would be in both sets and most of them would be friends and family of the player in question...which I guess brings in (3) you'd also have to care enough about the regs to report it.
A bit less carelessness from the parents and they might have gotten away with it.
Alot of the problem isn't self reporting it's actually sifting through all the rumors and hear say, in order to get to the truth in order to levy punishment. In the case of Butler it was never that he was supposed to live with grandparents. Grandparents were never involved. His parents gave custody to his Aunt, then claimed the reasoning was because they were moving away. Can you imagine a school wanting to or having the resources to go through this type of dog and pony show?
Sifting through lies, rumors, and untruths makes it hard to slow the recruiting train down.
Sorry, aunt, I don't know why I remembered it being his grandmother.
But otherwise I think we agree. They check the paperwork that was filed, it fits an exception class and its granted. If an honest mistake is made the paperwork isn't right and it gets caught, but a good fraud has a good chance of slipping through. The association certainly doesn't have the resources to go out and fully investigate every piece of paperwork that's filed and they aren't going to hire a PI every time they hear some unsubstantiated scuttlebutt.
Ultimately, the member schools are going to get the level of enforcement they're willing to fund. As it stands, any school that really wants to cheat probably can. I don't understand why a struggling public school would think this was a good use of resources but I don't live in the district so what I think doesn't matter much.
GopherHole
Active member
And finally, how frustrating it must be for the kids that actually grew up/live in Deer Park that wanted to play basketball (if there are any). Every year a new crop of recruits rolls in and takes away your spot on the team. Gentry, you aren't a coach, you don't develop talent, you don't care about the community that you coach in, you just convince high school kids to come play on your team so you can satisfy your selfish definition of success. Are the Deer Park people just this stupid or starved for some "success" that they sit back and allow this to happen so they can go cheer and buy a state champs t shirt? The whole thing is so pathetic on so many levels.[/QUOTE]
Interesting that if you substitute Kramer for Gentry and Moeller for Deer Park you have the same situation but when it comes to Kramer everyone thinks that he is just great.
Interesting that if you substitute Kramer for Gentry and Moeller for Deer Park you have the same situation but when it comes to Kramer everyone thinks that he is just great.
Something To Say
Member
Hold on here are they breaking any rules. And if its a problem at Deer Park why is it not a problem at Moe.. I sense some hating going on here!!!!
Interesting that if you substitute Kramer for Gentry and Moeller for Deer Park you have the same situation but when it comes to Kramer everyone thinks that he is just great.[/QUOTE]
Kramer has the complexion for to the protection.
MooseJaw
Well-known member
I just don't understand how people have such a hard time with the concept of public vs private. Moeller is a private school and Deer Park is a public school that does not have open enrollment. That means that anyone attending the school and playing basketball has to live in Deer Park. That means that you can't live there with a friend, or share an apartment - you have to physically move there with your legal guardian(s) and have that as your main residence. You can't live in Forrest Park, or Oak Hills, or Cleves or anywhere else, you have to live in Deer Park. Moeller has no such rule and kids can attend Moeller from virtually anywhere. And of course Rybaby brings out the race card, it has nothing to do with that either.
What are the chances that 5 really good basketball players move into a small town at about the same time? If it is just by luck then people in Deer Park need to be playing the lottery. Or maybe DP has a low price home ownership program or free apartment program we all need to inquire about and move our families there.
Aside from (but not unrelated to) the difference between a private and public school, Moeller's not in the CHL. For the most part their competition does what they do, though maybe not as well or as thoroughly. DP's competition does not.
The CHL's been a refuge from this sort of thing--I'd go so far as to say it's what ties the league together. (Why Finneytown and not NCH? Because NCH would Mayo/Walker.) If Deer Park wants to play it this way, they should at the very least go somewhere it's considered acceptable.
The CHL's been a refuge from this sort of thing--I'd go so far as to say it's what ties the league together. (Why Finneytown and not NCH? Because NCH would Mayo/Walker.) If Deer Park wants to play it this way, they should at the very least go somewhere it's considered acceptable.
PURPLE REIGN
Well-known member
Deer Park should simply become an open enrollment school system.
Please don't play the race card, that says more about you. I am in and out of this site but certainly have enough awareness to know Moeller-Kremer receive much criticism for their recruiting efforts. As someone said DP is public, Moeller is private. Until either school gets caught and convicted it will continue. The OHSAA isn't in the policing business. They rely of self reporting and integrity. So as long as Gentry and his group are able to get transfers they will and as long as Sussli is able to go watch elementary and JH club games to target their players they will. Parents have responsibility here as well. The 6th grade Dad who loves to say to his drinking buddies that Moeller is recruiting Jimmy or the parents who change schools to find a better deal.
Vike16
Well-known member
Do you guys know these kids to say were they live? Do you guys have their addresses and SS cards? If Deer Park was breaking the rules like you guys are saying, wouldn't the perfect and wonderful OHSAA find some type of violation in the past three years. This is starting to look like hate more than actual concern
vike, This is how it was explained to me. When students transfer in with a new residence, which is what must occur in DP, the district then validates if it is legitimate. The OHSAA provides a checklist, but again, the district where the students moves into is in control of the process. The OHSAA would only get involved if they felt there were credible complaints on the validity of the move. Can anyone confirm or correct?
I'm not sure that addresses my point. There are other open-enrollment districts in the CHL; none of them turn their roster over every year or two with a full lineup of new players.
The association needs to work from the letter of the law (whether they can do this adequately is a question, of course). My thoughts on the league are that repeated violations in spirit should provoke a rethink even if DP manages to avoid getting cited. Some leagues are full of schools that push the envelope; this hasn't been one of them.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
Which is why there should be separate public and private championships. Different rules. different resources, different models. Why are these schools competing against each other?
cincyhoops
Well-known member
AMEN. It’s time.
I would move my kid in for that.