Division 3 Boys 2012

and bluedevil...how does he do that? what does he do that makes them into outstanding runners year in and year out?
 
DaSub said:
I'm predicting right now that if minster makes it to state next year (which I don't think they will) they won't get top 8.
Click to expand...
How can you even say that? The reason they haven't made it the last three years is because of ONE runner not preforming how he should have. They keep 5 out of there top 6 and gain a very talented freshmen who should be able to come in around 17 flat.
 
I'm-a-sports-guy. said:
They keep 5 out of there top 6 and gain a very talented freshmen who should be able to come in around 17 flat.
Click to expand...

I'm getting a sense of Deja Vu. Sounds very similar to what was said last about minster getting a lot of young talent. Didn't turn out quite as planned.

Anyway, all I said is I don't think they'll make it past regionals. They didn't the last two years, is it really a huge stretch to say I don't think they will next year?
 
There is no question Minster will make state this year...as long as they are healthy they will be there, and be in the top 5.

If they get sent to Troy like they should, there is no way they wouldn't make it.
 
Right, but if they send Minster to Troy, they'll send Coldwater and St. Henry, then New London and Columbus Grove will go to Tiffin, then Smithville will make it out of Boardman, and we might have more of the best teams at the state meet. Seven of the top 8 teams in the state came from the "North" regions.
 
slowerthanyou said:
Right, but if they send Minster to Troy, they'll send Coldwater and St. Henry, then New London and Columbus Grove will go to Tiffin, then Smithville will make it out of Boardman, and we might have more of the best teams at the state meet. Seven of the top 8 teams in the state came from the "North" regions.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY! That would only make sense to have the best teams in the state at the state meet....considering St. Henry, Coldwater, and Minster are all very close to being in the "south" anyways why not send them to Troy??? Why should teams like New London, Smithville, Minster, and others be left out of the state meet just because they were in the northern regions???

State needs to wake up and fix this....if Minster would have been at state and running to their potential the north would of had 8 of the top 9 teams!

I understand you don't shape things up on just competition, but with those 3 schools being so close to the south anyways they should be sent to one of the southern regions which totally blow.
 
ccman said:
EXACTLY! That would only make sense to have the best teams in the state at the state meet....considering St. Henry, Coldwater, and Minster are all very close to being in the "south" anyways why not send them to Troy??? Why should teams like New London, Smithville, Minster, and others be left out of the state meet just because they were in the northern regions???

State needs to wake up and fix this....if Minster would have been at state and running to their potential the north would of had 8 of the top 9 teams!

I understand you don't shape things up on just competition, but with those 3 schools being so close to the south anyways they should be sent to one of the southern regions which totally blow.
Click to expand...

Teams are weaker in the South. But, 3 of the top 8 individuals including the guy with the fastest time of the day came from the South
 
I guess it depends on what the intended purpose of the state meet is. If the meet is designed to showcase the best teams in Ohio, we don't do it right. If it designed to have equal representation from the "geographic" regions, someone needs a lesson in geography. I can't understand why we don't take the top 2 or 3 teams from each region, and then let the OAT&CCC pick a list of at large teams (8 teams if 2 qualify automatically, and 4 if 3 qualify automatically). People who argue with me generally use one of two arguements. First, it isn't the way we always have done it...thankfully, the medical profession doesn't follow this ARCHAIC thought process. Second, there would be some bias involved with allowing a selection committee to select teams, which is true, but in most years, more of the best teams would be competing.

I wouldn't propose doing the same for individuals...I don't think our system keeps any potential "podium" kids from getting to state.
 
I thought the Southwest Region was well representing this year to the State Meet.

Average times

Mariemont - 17:05
Versailles - 17:12
West Liberty-Salem 17:32
Russia - 17:32

Now that might not happen every year, but I don't think it's fair to say this year we were sub par!!
 
mistert said:
I thought the Southwest Region was well representing this year to the State Meet.

Average times

Mariemont - 17:05
Versailles - 17:12
West Liberty-Salem 17:32
Russia - 17:32

Now that might not happen every year, but I don't think it's fair to say this year we were sub par!!
Click to expand...

WOW how can you say they were well represented when one of them ended up in the top 8?????

You make no sense whatsoever...the only way that makes sense is if you're comparing them to the SE teams...
 
Prakel won and his team 9th? From the south? Mariemont 3rd from the South? West Liberty-Salem 10th running with a injured one man and had to replace their mid-17 5 guy with a mid 18 guy, so they were no where close to normal? So will give them top 6 if healthy, not that it matters. From the south? I would say the South did just fine! Overall Champion and 3 teams in top 10!
 
LOL I love all the people on here defending the South...how is that comparable to 7 in the top 8 from the North????

Simple - ITS NOT

The south is not as good... plain and simple...if New London, Minster, Smithville, and many others would be in any of the southern regions they woulda got out...so technically I'd say if you look at overall teams the North would dominate with 10 of the top 12 and it wouldnt be close...

Quit trying to act like the South is good when it's not...only team that's good is Mariemont, and WLS did have potential
 
Last edited:
Compared to years past.....well represented is a good term...haha!!

I'm curious as to how you want to get the 16 best teams to the State?

So far I've heard relocate teams to other Regionals.......is that it or is there a better plan?

Is this something that should be done in Track and Field as well? Why should we do that in CC?
 
We in the south bow down to the north teams....yes....they are very much superior to the south, but we are giving it our best.....as a coach.....that's all I can ask!!

If we make it to the Regional or State meet by the terms that are given to us....we have to go with that!! Plain and simple.

As far as defending the south, it's in my blood....I root for the Bengals as well.
 
sorry mistert...my last post was mostly aimed at ccfreak...I just didn't like how he acted like the South was great for getting 3 in the top 10...
 
mistert said:
I'm curious as to how you want to get the 16 best teams to the State?
Click to expand...

Like I said above, take the top 3 at each region, then pick the best 4 teams left as at large teams (much like how they do it at the collegiate level). This system isn't perfect, but in many years it would get a team or two that belongs in the top 16 in the state into the meet. As has been said above, there were 3 teams from the "North" who would be top 16 (arguably top 10, or 11 in this case, because none of the 3 would've beaten Marimont this year) at the meet.

I am not trying to criticize the south, they had some good teams this year. I just believe that this years state meet was missing several teams that belong in the top 16, if your belief is that the meet "should" include the top 16.
 
The system that you would like to see (first 3 and then 4 on average time) works in getting a few more teams in, but as you mentioned is not be a perfect system....and the reasons why are 1) the conditions at each of the regional sites could be varied. Take a look at the Boardman times (1 to 1 1/2 minutes slower) 2) teams might have 1 or 2 runners that don't do well.....or collapse during the race as I believe is what happened to Minster???? 3) A team can have a lower average time, but still not be better than another team who might have 2 great front runners and then some decent 3,4,5 runners. These items would prevent some teams from getting in that would otherwise get in by just their ability.

I know that track and field are doing something similar to this. They are taking the top 2 and then adding in the remaining runners needed by times. Again, Mother Nature can either help or hurt your chances if you're not the first two.
 
mistert said:
I know that track and field are doing something similar to this. They are taking the top 2 and then adding in the remaining runners needed by times. Again, Mother Nature can either help or hurt your chances if you're not the first two.
Click to expand...

Track is only doing this when qualifying from semis to finals at Regionals and State (not qualifying from Regionals to State). When we compare times for these competitors, at least they are competing at the same site and within minutes of each other.
 
So that the system is not changed and no one is getting the shaft, why not continue to qualify the top 4 and then add four more "at large" teams as National trail (an scioto downs) both could handle 28+ more in each race.
This would continue to get the top 4 from each region AND help to get potential top 10 teams on the line at State.

I just do not think that the powers that be would agree to take something away from anyone... or should.
 
I feel like we have this same argument every month. IMO the sole function of the state meet should be to name a state champion. Looking back, I cannot find a time when a team that had a shot at contending for a state championship failed to qualify for the state meet. Would I like to see the top 16 teams racing in the state meet? Of course!! I'm all for the "best 16" racing at National Trails, but realistically that just isn't going to happen.

I know the NCAA uses auto-bids and at-large bids to qualify teams from regionals to nationals, but they have a selection committee to pick the at-large teams. If Ohio implemented a similar method, who would select the teams to make the state meet? I think it would just make more problems and controversy than we already have. Once again, I would love to see the best teams racing each other, but the state meet serves its function in crowning the best team in the state.
 
If you want to see only the best team crowned, then the state meet does that. As you said, you are all for having the best 16, which we certainly didn't have this year, nor do we most years.

Realistically, it isn't happening now, but it could.

To answer your question, we have a body of coachs who could be the selection committee. The OAT&CCC District Reps could look at the remaining non-qualifying teams from the regional meet, ranking them according to thier common sense (they understand the difference in course conditions) and complete the field with these teams. I don't care if it is after 8, 12, or 16 automatic bids.

Again, if you are only worried about crowning a champ, there is no reason to do any of this, but if you want the best teams running at the state meet, this adjustment would not be that difficult.
 
There HAS been occasions where a 4th place team from a Region has earned a spot on the podium at The State Championships. Why could this not happen with a team that got 5th? There was that year that Salem in DII ran at the state when they did not qualify.... I think they got 4th at State even though they were 7th at the Boardman region... their score was then removed after the court decision. They won it the next year.
There certainly would be occasions where a 5th place team would contend at State and most years the best non-qualifying teams would impact the results especially the times where it is very close. (with displacement being what it is)

The top 4 from each region is very fair and does get what the OSHAA wants, and that's statewide representation. I am in complete agreement with this. Adding qualifiers to enhance the meet should not interfere with this IMO. Now, How to best "enhance" the competition without messing with the current representation is the trick...
I do not have the answers, but adding Quality to the State meet can not be a bad thing... adding quantity just to increase participation is not a good thing.

This is probably for another post topic.
 
Ryan Polman has got to feel like he's on top of the world right now. 15:20 at FL MW and an 8th place finish. Going to Nationals, congrats kid!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top