Year in School vs. Age

MPhillips said:
e84302f4-222a-4926-909d-fd22df1b7bab.gif
Click to expand...

Son, stop beating your horse. You'll go blind.
 
iamjacksuglythrowaway said:
It’s not really beating a dead horse to me. I not arguing anything. The things I talked about simply are reality. I don’t care if it’s done for actual academic reasons. I will always have an issue with holdbacks for a middle schooler for the purpose of gaining a competitive edge in hs wrestling
Click to expand...
Competitive advantage? Losing a few matches to good wrestlers never hurts regardless of age imo. Hold backs are maximizing their full potential. You will see them later down the line possibly. It's a single match or two and you should learn from the loss. Egos don't last long at the higher levels. Let people make their own choices. Imo Is there really a right answer? I don’t think so.
 
I enjoy wrestling said:
Competitive advantage? Losing a few matches to good wrestlers never hurts regardless of age imo. Hold backs are maximizing their full potential. You will see them later down the line possibly. It's a single match or two and you should learn from the loss. Egos don't last long at the higher levels. Let people make their own choices. Imo Is there really a right answer? I don’t think so.
Click to expand...
I’ve seen it be a direct factor into burnout and peaking in high school. (I know one coach who called it the “Brandon Effect” because the Brandon Florida kids always were held back and at maximum possible age in hs but were always underachieving past hs)

Also... you shouldn’t be peaking a kids athletic potential in hs... that is a flat out parochial view and one of the leading causes of burnout.. and/or creating athletes who hate the sport and don’t want anything to do with it and don’t even consider coaching at all.. or letting their kids wrestle. It’s a growing problem... I don’t know if you wrestled in college.. but I get the vibe you would be shocked at how many college wrestlers, hate or don’t like wrestling at all and are only doing it because their parents made it a job by the time they were in ms.

A big part of why I’m against hold backs is intrinsic motivation vs. extrinsic. Holding a kid back to “maximize” their potential to win a regional teenage age group scholastic tournament... is not something happening because an adolescent made an informed self motivated decision. It’s a decision made by extrinsic factors. Letting/encouraging the kid to be self motivated and learning how to deal with “failure” i.e. losing more matches as freshman since they weren’t held back.. is much better for the kid in the long run..

“Egos” are well in existence with the higher level guys lol. Don’t base your opinion of that based off some people’s clinic persona/mode.
 
iamjacksuglythrowaway said:
I’ve seen it be a direct factor into burnout and peaking in high school. (I know one coach who called it the “Brandon Effect” because the Brandon Florida kids always were held back and at maximum possible age in hs but were always underachieving past hs)

Also... you shouldn’t be peaking a kids athletic potential in hs... that is a flat out parochial view and one of the leading causes of burnout.. and/or creating athletes who hate the sport and don’t want anything to do with it and don’t even consider coaching at all.. or letting their kids wrestle. It’s a growing problem... I don’t know if you wrestled in college.. but I get the vibe you would be shocked at how many college wrestlers, hate or don’t like wrestling at all and are only doing it because their parents made it a job by the time they were in ms.

A big part of why I’m against hold backs is intrinsic motivation vs. extrinsic. Holding a kid back to “maximize” their potential to win a regional teenage age group scholastic tournament... is not something happening because an adolescent made an informed self motivated decision. It’s a decision made by extrinsic factors. Letting/encouraging the kid to be self motivated and learning how to deal with “failure” i.e. losing more matches as freshman since they weren’t held back.. is much better for the kid in the long run..

“Egos” are well in existence with the higher level guys lol. Don’t base your opinion of that based off some people’s clinic persona/mode.
Click to expand...
Lifes not perfect my friend. Let others chose and deal with life. My kids did very well at wrestling. They wrestled kids that were held back. They lost early and it was good for them They needed to lose and the figured it out. To each his own imo. Yes, my youngsters would have done better being held back. I don't want to get into specifics because is hard to do better than they did. It's tough to lose, but later on you will view things differently. Just my opinions Do the best you can with your own is my motto.

Try and look at all the good wrestling does for youngsters. Good luck to all wrestlers.
 
No right or wrong answer. Burnout is a real thing. Personally, I think most wrestlers have a 10 year clock of training hard and competing at a high level ( freaks like David Taylor, Logan Steiber, Kyle Dake, are the rare exception). If you start that clock in 3rd grade or younger, wrestling can feel like a job by high school, especially in the case of an athlete who peaks in 9th or 10th grade which can make the thought of competing for 4 or 5 more years in College seem like a prison sentence. College wrestling at any level is a grind, and I can say personally when my college career ended by taking a disappointing loss in the consi finals of my conference tourney- not qualifying for nationals- I was upset for about 10 minutes until a wave of relief and excitement hit me with the realization that I was done- forever. I could eat, go to parties, drink beers, basically be a normal college kid for the remainder of my college career. I guess you could say that I was burned out, but looking back on the experience decades later, had I not had wrestling at the center of my college experience, there's a pretty good chance I would not have graduated. It absolutely kept me on a disciplined path (for the most part), it gave me an identity, accountability, challenges, adversity, great friends, mentors, and a built-in support system. It also gave me bad knees, a floppy ankle, a bad habit of wolfing down food as if it's my last meal, and the inability to wear earbuds.

There's no science proving or disproving the efficacy of a holdback year. Some kids benefit, while others may not. I think it's about setting realistic goals and expectations and having clarity about what want your kid to take away from the sport. Part of that is knowing your kid, and being realistic and objective about their talent, and love for the sport as well as their other interests and talents. If the goal is to get a scholarship, then all the time, energy, resources spent on wrestling would be better directed toward "Math Academy", ACT/SAT prep, community service, or even learning Chinese. If however, your goal is to use wrestling as a vehicle to open up opportunities, build a healthy lifestyle and work ethic, compete and try to max out your abilities, there is no reason that a holdback year - if done correctly - could not be effective in giving a kid extra time to mature athletically, socially, physically, emotionally, and intellectually etc.

It's all about the balance ( not my words- Mr. Miyagi's).
 
Last edited:
I enjoy wrestling said:
Lifes not perfect my friend. Let others chose and deal with life. My kids did very well at wrestling. They wrestled kids that were held back. They lost early and it was good for them They needed to lose and the figured it out. To each his own imo. Yes, my youngsters would have done better being held back. I don't want to get into specifics because is hard to do better than they did. It's tough to lose, but later on you will view things differently. Just my opinions Do the best you can with your own is my motto.

Try and look at all the good wrestling does for youngsters. Good luck to all wrestlers.
Click to expand...
Im okay with us having our clear positions opposite one another. I’m also well aware of the good it does young men and women. Very well aware.
 
LucMurphy134 said:
No right or wrong answer. Burnout is a real thing. Personally, I think most wrestlers have a 10 year clock of training hard and competing at a high level ( freaks like David Taylor, Logan Steiber, Kyle Dake, are the rare exception). If you start that clock in 3rd grade, wrestling can feel like a job by high school, especially in the case of an athlete who peaks in 9th or 10th grade which can make the thought of competing for 4 or 5 more years in College seem like a prison sentence. College wrestling at any level is a grind, and I can say personally when my college career ended by taking a disappointing loss in the consi finals of my conference tourney- not qualifying for nationals- I was upset for about 10 minutes until a wave of relief and excitement hit me with the realization that I was done- forever. I could eat, go to parties, drink beers, skip class to throw a frisbee, basically be a normal college kid for the remainder of my college career. I guess you could say that I was burned out, but looking back on the experience decades later, had I not had wrestling at the center of my college experience, there's a pretty good chance I would not have graduated. It absolutely kept me on a disciplined path (for the most part), it gave me an identity, accountability, challenges, adversity, great friends and role models, and a built-in support system that my friends who were not athletes did not have. It also gave me bad knees, a floppy ankle, a bad habit of wolfing food as if it's my last meal, and the inability to wear earbuds.

There's no science proving or disproving the efficacy of a holdback year. Some kids benefit, while others may not. I think it's about setting realistic goals and expectations of what you want your kid to take away from the sport. Part of that is knowing your kid, and being realistic about their talent, goals, and love for the sport. If the goal is to get a scholarship, then all the time, energy, resources spent on wrestling would be better directed toward "Math Academy", ACT/SAT prep, community service, or even learning Chinese. If however, your goal is to use wrestling as a vehicle to open up opportunities, build a healthy lifestyle and work ethic, challenge yourself to max out your abilities, there is no reason that a holdback year could not be effective in giving a kid more time to mature athletically, socially, physically, emotionally, and intellectually if done correctly, As the wise Mr. Miyagi said- it's all about the balance.
Click to expand...
Wolfing food !!! They both still do it. Lmao Nice post
 
While all sports seek and pursue the goal of victory, from a general perspective, the biggest problem with wrestling is it demands it. In every other sport I ever played, football, basketball, track, swimming, even golf, you could lose the game, lose the race, fail to qualify for whatever and still walk off the field feeling good, if you know you competed your best, improved your time, lowered your score, etc. I never felt good after losing a wrestling match, ever. Well, maybe once when I went overtime with the future state champ, but that was only in hindsight after he won it. :)
 
nooks said:
While all sports seek and pursue the goal of victory, from a general perspective, the biggest problem with wrestling is it demands it. In every other sport I ever played, football, basketball, track, swimming, even golf, you could lose the game, lose the race, fail to qualify for whatever and still walk off the field feeling good, if you know you competed your best, improved your time, lowered your score, etc. I never felt good after losing a wrestling match, ever. Well, maybe once when I went overtime with the future state champ, but that was only in hindsight after he won it. :)
Click to expand...

I lost 12 matches in high school. I could tell you about every single one of them- 30 years later.
 
iamjacksuglythrowaway said:
No one really has an issue with hold backs for actual legitimate reasons.. holding a kid back “redshirting” it’s called sometimes to give a kid an “advantage” in high school wrestling is what is being talked about.

Much like most psycho dad behavior. It’s done. A majority of the time by ones who never did anything worthwhile themselves and live through their kid.

The excuses are legion. Which is to be expected. One can rationalize almost anything in the purpose of living out a “dream” through their child
Click to expand...

I not sure if you are speaking facts or just venting and making up because you don't agree with kids "red shirting", but most kids that I know of that repeated a grade did NOT do it for a competitive edge in middle school or high school. In speaking with a couple of parents in this situation (deciding if it was the right move for my son), for most of them it was the choice of the kid, and the kid had to talk the parents into it. The fact that you think all hold backs are the kids of psycho parents that were never athletes just shows how much you do not know about the elite wrestlers in this country that made this decision. I don't know of any that have regrets. What I did learn from them is that they do not feel that they wasted a year. Most of them feel like it was a sacrifice to get to the level they are at so they can go on to wrestle at a higher level in the future. Holding back is not fun and games, it sucks, it is a sacrifice, and if a kid is willing to do that, they are really serious about their athletic career, not only short term, but very long term. In almost every case it had nothing to do with wanting to be a state champ in high school. A lot of these kids have goals that most kids would like to accomplish, but simply don't want to put the time and effort into actually follow through with them. They want National Championships, and Olympic Team Trials, World Team... Maybe there are parents out there that do hold their kids back so they can have a great high school career, but that is not the case for most high level elite athletes that choose to hold back a year. Keep an open mind. There are kids out there with big dreams and goals that will sacrifice and work harder than anyone else to accomplish them. The parents and coaches of these kids don't judge the kids that don't have these same goals and that just want to be high school athletes, so don't judge kids that want to be the best they can be.
 
phopl4 said:
I not sure if you are speaking facts or just venting and making up because you don't agree with kids "red shirting", but most kids that I know of that repeated a grade did NOT do it for a competitive edge in middle school or high school. In speaking with a couple of parents in this situation (deciding if it was the right move for my son), for most of them it was the choice of the kid, and the kid had to talk the parents into it. The fact that you think all hold backs are the kids of psycho parents that were never athletes just shows how much you do not know about the elite wrestlers in this country that made this decision. I don't know of any that have regrets. What I did learn from them is that they do not feel that they wasted a year. Most of them feel like it was a sacrifice to get to the level they are at so they can go on to wrestle at a higher level in the future. Holding back is not fun and games, it sucks, it is a sacrifice, and if a kid is willing to do that, they are really serious about their athletic career, not only short term, but very long term. In almost every case it had nothing to do with wanting to be a state champ in high school. A lot of these kids have goals that most kids would like to accomplish, but simply don't want to put the time and effort into actually follow through with them. They want National Championships, and Olympic Team Trials, World Team... Maybe there are parents out there that do hold their kids back so they can have a great high school career, but that is not the case for most high level elite athletes that choose to hold back a year. Keep an open mind. There are kids out there with big dreams and goals that will sacrifice and work harder than anyone else to accomplish them. The parents and coaches of these kids don't judge the kids that don't have these same goals and that just want to be high school athletes, so don't judge kids that want to be the best they can be.
Click to expand...
I’m not saying what I said flippantly. If you disagree that’s fine. It does not change what I’ve seen and discussed with people from around the country. And I’m well aware some kids are self motivated. It does not eliminate the other behavior I have seen
 
ShafferDad said:
I just watched a 20 year old man wrestle in a HS tournament. The kid drove himself to Middle School and is still wrestling HS....... there is no end to this
Click to expand...
Put a name on it. He's a grown man not a kid...lol, In ohio that is an easy thing to do. Did it work out for the kid? Did he get a colege scholarship for wrestling?
 
I know youth coaches who are holding their kids back starting kindergarten just in case they are good wrestlers. One was held to age 6, turned 7 during kinder and his dad is now considering holding back again before 7th grade. He will be wrestling cadet as a 7th grader. He does very well in age group wrestling, so I don't see the point of holding back before grade based wrestling. Just my opinion. I know people who held back for maturity, small size, etc. There are 2 freshman by me that are both 90lbs and can't compete with kids cutting to 106. Extra year would have helped both.

The % of kids who actually compete at an International level or even NCAA D1 is very small. Let the kids benefit from all that wrestling has to offer, whatever that means to you and your kid is up to y'all. The only frustrating part is when parents try to deny, justify or otherwise. Wrestling in an age based tournament, a kid beat one of my wrestlers and his parents and coaches were running around puffing their chest about him only being in 5th grade and beating a 7th grader. The 5th grader is actually 2 months older than the 7th grader. I just told the kid and his parents not worth getting upset.
 
ShafferDad said:
I just watched a 20 year old man wrestle in a HS tournament. The kid drove himself to Middle School and is still wrestling HS....... there is no end to this
Click to expand...
When I was 20...I was still growing. Went another 2 inches and 15 good lean pounds. Nobody then was calling me sir...nor did I think I was a man. It's all relative, I guess...:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Woo
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top