Why do you like/ dislike the NBA?

14Red

Well-known member
The NBA has kind of turned into a all in/ all out for fans. Why is that? Basketball continues to be one of the major sports in the country, in fact, you could say it's second behind the NFL.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
That was a good Kings team. I was a huge fan of Rick Adelman as a coach. His teams in Portland and Sac could ball.
In those Sacramento days Adelman had longtime Princeton coach Pete Carril on staff and incorporated many concepts from his Princeton offense into the Kings' offense. Good team basketball, and though different were in many ways an early adaptor to playing with increased floor spacing and post players frequently on the perimeter.
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
Many HS draft busts and underwhelming stars in that era, especially in the Eastern conference. Iverson was the most marketable player at that time after Shaq and Kobe.

That period from around 1999-2004 was by far the crappiest the NBA has been in what I'd call the modern era beginning with Magic Johnson and Larry Bird entering the league. I know many hate the way the game is played currently, but the talent level the last 5-6 years is the best it's been since the 80s/90s era ended.
Ahh yes my formative undergraduate years haha. I would argue after the third Bull's run ended in '98 things began to go down hill like you said. I did enjoy watching those early-mid 00s Pistons teams and Spurs teams. But with the Lakers pretty much controlling the league and the East being so bad as a whole made it less entertaining IMO. From '99 to '03 the West only lost 6 games in the finals during that stretch.
 

14Red

Well-known member
I think many forget how ugly the 80's basketball was. Many low scoring 80's / 90's games. Fights, grabbing/ holding, etc.

The one major improvement in the game has been the opening up of the floor and more free flowing offense. Today's players are MUCH better shooters than those in the 80's and 90's. There were guys on teams back then who could not shoot, did not shoot, Dennis Rodman specifically.

The post up center is obsolete because of one simple play, the high screen and roll. As great as Shaq was, imagine him today switching or hedging to pick up a Kawhi Lenoard, or a Chris Paul?

The NBA has always been and always will be a players league. Top brass are slow to make any changes because they are afraid of the kickback from the players. It's always been that way. It's the NBA culture.
I prefer college to the NBA and don't watch a whole lot besides the playoffs and the occasional Cavs game, but it's important to remember that the present pro game has been shaped dramatically by the early 2000s as the stars of the 80s and 90s exited the league. The product was brutal to watch at times and a ton of games lacked flow, excitement or scoring.

There were numerous very low scoring playoff games in that time period, especially with teams like the Pacers and Pistons, that were pretty much blood sport in the paint defensively by what was allowable at that time and without the current emphasis on floor spacing and the three ball. In 2002 the Celtics beat the Pistons in the lowest scoring playoff game ever in a conference semifinal game by a score of 66-64. Tweaks to the rules followed by an increasing influx of star talents beginning in 2003 began to shift the game to the often more higher scoring and flowing product of today.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I think many forget how ugly the 80's basketball was. Many low scoring 80's / 90's games. Fights, grabbing/ holding, etc.

The one major improvement in the game has been the opening up of the floor and more free flowing offense. Today's players are MUCH better shooters than those in the 80's and 90's. There were guys on teams back then who could not shoot, did not shoot, Dennis Rodman specifically.

The post up center is obsolete because of one simple play, the high screen and roll. As great as Shaq was, imagine him today switching or hedging to pick up a Kawhi Lenoard, or a Chris Paul?

The NBA has always been and always will be a players league. Top brass are slow to make any changes because they are afraid of the kickback from the players. It's always been that way. It's the NBA culture.
I do think that in the present there are more "shot makers" than ever owed in part to each emphasis on what's now important as well as changes to the rules/enforcement. The post up center is pretty much obsolete. I remember in Kirk Goldsberry's book "Sprawlball" he mentions the case of Al Jefferson. In 2013-14 I believe he was 28 and was an All-NBA player and averaged roughly 22 PPG and 11 RPG. That was the 6th or 7th consecutive year he averaged somewhere between 16-22 points and 8-11 rebounds. Two years later he was barely holding on to a roster spot due to the shift to a more open-spaced game, and he was out of the league two years later at 32 years old when he should have been towards the end of his prime.

Shaq would be an enormous liability defensively in the current game, notwithstanding on a team with several good shooters he could probably be even more dominant offensively. From the same era somebody like Iverson that was a poor perimeter shooter and that shot in high volume to score would probably have a lot of difficulty just making a roster. The way that he played the game in his prime is the anti-thesis of the prototype point guard/scoring guard in the analytic era.
 

Raider6309

Well-known member
Politics. The NBA was supposed to be the second biggest sport as NASCAR and MLB went on the decline. Now UFC will likely take the #2 sport as the NBA went full woke
 

Crusaders

Moderator
A team with Shaq on it would dominate the paint. I don't think there's a C in the league who could battle him right now. Definitely not Orlando Shaq. You could probably argue the NBA was the way it was post-MJ because of Shaq. There were so many attempts to find a 7-footer who could battle him and only a handful really were able to.
 

Qcity

Well-known member
Dislike: style of play / attitude of many players/coaches / hypocrites / communist sympathizers / totally ridiculous levels of compensation (which will all come tumbling down someday) / BLM BS /

Like:
 

14Red

Well-known member
The NBA is still a league where offense sells, but defense and flexibility wins. A guy like Carmello Anthony has never been a winner, but he can score. He can't guard anyone and isn't willing to take a lesser role to win. Sadly, alot of guys fall into this category. Iverson was blessed to have Larry Brown as a coach who basically built a team around his flaws.
I do think that in the present there are more "shot makers" than ever owed in part to each emphasis on what's now important as well as changes to the rules/enforcement. The post up center is pretty much obsolete. I remember in Kirk Goldsberry's book "Sprawlball" he mentions the case of Al Jefferson. In 2013-14 I believe he was 28 and was an All-NBA player and averaged roughly 22 PPG and 11 RPG. That was the 6th or 7th consecutive year he averaged somewhere between 16-22 points and 8-11 rebounds. Two years later he was barely holding on to a roster spot due to the shift to a more open-spaced game, and he was out of the league two years later at 32 years old when he should have been towards the end of his prime.

Shaq would be an enormous liability defensively in the current game, notwithstanding on a team with several good shooters he could probably be even more dominant offensively. From the same era somebody like Iverson that was a poor perimeter shooter and that shot in high volume to score would probably have a lot of difficulty just making a roster. The way that he played the game in his prime is the anti-thesis of the prototype point guard/scoring guard in the analytic era.
 

Omar

Well-known member
That was a good Kings team. I was a huge fan of Rick Adelman as a coach. His teams in Portland and Sac could ball.
They outplayed the Lakers that whole series. People forget they needed a fluke GW 3 by Robert Horry to win game 4. Also, f**k Robert Horry for that stunt he pulled in ‘07 with the Spurs. The Phoenix Suns should’ve won the Title that yr.
 

oxat622

Well-known member
The NBA is still a league where offense sells, but defense and flexibility wins. A guy like Carmello Anthony has never been a winner, but he can score. He can't guard anyone and isn't willing to take a lesser role to win. Sadly, alot of guys fall into this category. Iverson was blessed to have Larry Brown as a coach who basically built a team around his flaws.
It's interesting you mention Carmelo because I would argue he was USA's best player in both the 08 and 12 Olympics as a result of him being set up by his teammates.
 

14Red

Well-known member
It's interesting you mention Carmelo because I would argue he was USA's best player in both the 08 and 12 Olympics as a result of him being set up by his teammates.
I find it very difficult to evaluate the Olympic teams because they play with each other so little. And to compare the US team to others around the world is difficult because the talent level is so much higher than the opponent.

We always seem to evaluate basketball players based on points only. To me the better player is a guy who can score AND set up teammates, defend and not tear the team down.
 

Omar

Well-known member
It’s funny how there’s now a public cry for Becky Hammon to get one of the HC jobs. There’s zero chance the players respect her. They might be woke on racial issues, but they’re not going to take orders from a female coach.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
It’s funny how there’s now a public cry for Becky Hammon to get one of the HC jobs. There’s zero chance the players respect her. They might be woke on racial issues, but they’re not going to take orders from a female coach.
Most of them won’t take orders from a male coach, either.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Most of them won’t take orders from a male coach, either.
That’s true. They didn’t seem to have much respect for Stevens, in large part bc he never played at a high level. The people pushing this don’t live in reality. How many times in an NBA game do you think words like “p***y” and “b**ch” get thrown around? The idea you support one progressive cause, so you must support all other progressive causes equally is either naive or plain idiotic.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I'm almost amazed Stevens managed to get what he got in the NBA having only gotten to D3 in his playing career. There is an enormous respect/credibility issue among players towards coaches that didn't play in the league. David Blatt's short-lived Cavs tenure is a prime example. Tremendous coaching career in Europe and international competition and well respected X's and O's guy by coaches and that guy got pretty much muted on day one by that Cavs roster due to not having any NBA playing experience. With the way things are now, I'd probably hedge towards hiring a high I.Q. recently former player with limited coaching experience and maybe some broadcast experience, i.e. Steve Kerr or Steve Nash. Within a few years of whenever he hangs it up, I'd add Chris Paul to that list.

Becky Hammon is in the perfect organization between the Spurs' culture, leadership and the type of player (i.e. more coachable) they generally have on their roster. Hard to imagine her getting along in too many (if any) other organizations, especially in the lead chair.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
I played college basketball (D3) and played adult rec leagues for years. Love the game. Love college hoops. Have not watched any NBA yet this year. Why? The game has devolved IMO. It is mostly street ball with lots of isolation offense and 3-point shooting. The team aspect of the game is gone.

I will probably catch some of the 4th quarters in some of the games in the Finals, if it is convenient and not on at midnight. That is it. Much prefer NFL, NHL, MLB and PGA to the NBA.
 

Omar

Well-known member
I'm almost amazed Stevens managed to get what he got in the NBA having only gotten to D3 in his playing career. There is an enormous respect/credibility issue among players towards coaches that didn't play in the league. David Blatt's short-lived Cavs tenure is a prime example. Tremendous coaching career in Europe and international competition and well respected X's and O's guy by coaches and that guy got pretty much muted on day one by that Cavs roster due to not having any NBA playing experience. With the way things are now, I'd probably hedge towards hiring a high I.Q. recently former player with limited coaching experience and maybe some broadcast experience, i.e. Steve Kerr or Steve Nash. Within a few years of whenever he hangs it up, I'd add Chris Paul to that list.

Becky Hammon is in the perfect organization between the Spurs' culture, leadership and the type of player (i.e. more coachable) they generally have on their roster. Hard to imagine her getting along in too many (if any) other organizations, especially in the lead chair.
Now apparently, Teresa Witherspoon is in the running for the Pelicans job? It’s going to happen soon and make the sport even worse. This isn’t the Corporate world, you need credibility and players aren’t going to respect a female HC, it’s just not going to happen. They might say the right things publicly, but in the locker room, they will not listen to a word she says.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Now apparently, Teresa Witherspoon is in the running for the Pelicans job? It’s going to happen soon and make the sport even worse. This isn’t the Corporate world, you need credibility and players aren’t going to respect a female HC, it’s just not going to happen. They might say the right things publicly, but in the locker room, they will not listen to a word she says.
If it does happen the results will speak for themselves. There's maybe 2-3 teams that have the right infrastructure (ownership, front office, ingrained culture, etc.) to be able to make such a move and have any chance at all of it succeeding. A team like the Pelicans that's had a ton of moving pieces the last couple years along with a bunch of guys under 25, no chance in hell.
 

Omar

Well-known member
If it does happen the results will speak for themselves. There's maybe 2-3 teams that have the right infrastructure (ownership, front office, ingrained culture, etc.) to be able to make such a move and have any chance at all of it succeeding. A team like the Pelicans that's had a ton of moving pieces the last couple years along with a bunch of guys under 25, no chance in hell.
Sorry, not sorry to say, I don’t think women should be coaching men. I’m also not a fan of men coaching women.
 

SC10EHS15

Well-known member
I'm almost amazed Stevens managed to get what he got in the NBA having only gotten to D3 in his playing career. There is an enormous respect/credibility issue among players towards coaches that didn't play in the league. David Blatt's short-lived Cavs tenure is a prime example. Tremendous coaching career in Europe and international competition and well respected X's and O's guy by coaches and that guy got pretty much muted on day one by that Cavs roster due to not having any NBA playing experience. With the way things are now, I'd probably hedge towards hiring a high I.Q. recently former player with limited coaching experience and maybe some broadcast experience, i.e. Steve Kerr or Steve Nash. Within a few years of whenever he hangs it up, I'd add Chris Paul to that list.

Becky Hammon is in the perfect organization between the Spurs' culture, leadership and the type of player (i.e. more coachable) they generally have on their roster. Hard to imagine her getting along in too many (if any) other organizations, especially in the lead chair.
On your point about Stevens and the respect/credibility issue...it is so amazingly stupid to me that players and athletes in general these days seem to always go on about "you never played" or "you didn't play at a high enough level." Ty Lue absolutely does not strike me as being a good coach at all, but he'll continue to get jobs because he played in the NBA. Stevens seems like he could coach circles around Lue. Hell, Quin Snyder might be the best coach in the NBA right now and he never sniffed pro ball. Granted, he played at Duke for 4 years, but that was right towards the beginning of them becoming a powerhouse program. Bill Belichick played something like D3 football and he's one of the greatest coaches of all time. Players need to realize that you can know a game inside and out, but maybe just didn't have the physical tools to play at the highest level. It's a trend that's annoyed me for awhile and only seems to be getting worse.
 

Smalls

Well-known member
Watching the Sixers/Hawks game sums up my feeling when watching the NBA. Amazed at the shot making ability, but don't think it is improved over past years. They just take a lot more crazy As$ shots than before, so they make more. A lot of what the hell - oh wow he made it moments.

Couple things late I didn't like. Sixers up 2 or 3 with under 2:00 to go and the best shot they can attempt is an Embiid 3 with time left on the shot clock that he missed. Then Young comes down, defender challenges the 3 point shot straight up and down, Young jumps into the defender (moving forward about 5 feet from where he began his shot) and the defender gets called for a foul. No way does Young's normal shooting stroke include a 5 foot leap forward from 3.

The NBA wants more offense so they call the game to benefit the offense. Jumping into defenders on 3's, 3 steps and a jump stop, carrying the ball - palm up on hesitation dribble and crossover etc. These guys are ultra skilled and athletic - why let them get away with not enforcing the rules as written?

The spread/iso would not be as effective, defenders would have a better chance to defend 1 on 1 and help side could stay closer to shooters if they would actually call the game by the book.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Now apparently, Teresa Witherspoon is in the running for the Pelicans job? It’s going to happen soon and make the sport even worse. This isn’t the Corporate world, you need credibility and players aren’t going to respect a female HC, it’s just not going to happen. They might say the right things publicly, but in the locker room, they will not listen to a word she says.
You are such a sexist.
 

SC10EHS15

Well-known member
Watching the Sixers/Hawks game sums up my feeling when watching the NBA. Amazed at the shot making ability, but don't think it is improved over past years. They just take a lot more crazy As$ shots than before, so they make more. A lot of what the hell - oh wow he made it moments.

Couple things late I didn't like. Sixers up 2 or 3 with under 2:00 to go and the best shot they can attempt is an Embiid 3 with time left on the shot clock that he missed. Then Young comes down, defender challenges the 3 point shot straight up and down, Young jumps into the defender (moving forward about 5 feet from where he began his shot) and the defender gets called for a foul. No way does Young's normal shooting stroke include a 5 foot leap forward from 3.

The NBA wants more offense so they call the game to benefit the offense. Jumping into defenders on 3's, 3 steps and a jump stop, carrying the ball - palm up on hesitation dribble and crossover etc. These guys are ultra skilled and athletic - why let them get away with not enforcing the rules as written?

The spread/iso would not be as effective, defenders would have a better chance to defend 1 on 1 and help side could stay closer to shooters if they would actually call the game by the book.
I believe they're implementing rule changes (possibly next season?) to do away with foul calls on those kinds of plays that Young went for because fans have been complaining about it. One of the reasons I can't stand him; he does that crap all the time.
 

Omar

Well-known member
You are such a sexist.
No, bc I don’t think men should coach women. And this is strictly sports. I’m not saying there can’t be female CEOs. Sports is just a different culture and the players tends to respect coaches who have been where they’ve been & done what they’ve done on the same level. That’s just the truth.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
On your point about Stevens and the respect/credibility issue...it is so amazingly stupid to me that players and athletes in general these days seem to always go on about "you never played" or "you didn't play at a high enough level." Ty Lue absolutely does not strike me as being a good coach at all, but he'll continue to get jobs because he played in the NBA. Stevens seems like he could coach circles around Lue. Hell, Quin Snyder might be the best coach in the NBA right now and he never sniffed pro ball. Granted, he played at Duke for 4 years, but that was right towards the beginning of them becoming a powerhouse program. Bill Belichick played something like D3 football and he's one of the greatest coaches of all time. Players need to realize that you can know a game inside and out, but maybe just didn't have the physical tools to play at the highest level. It's a trend that's annoyed me for awhile and only seems to be getting worse.
Size and athleticism probably eliminates over 98% of players from having any chance of getting to the pros in basketball regardless of their skill level or understanding of the game. In a lot of instances I'd argue the best coaches seem to tend to be folks who had major physical limitations as players as well as those who bring the "gym rat" mentality to coaching and are always improving knowledge of game strategy and skills.

Quin Snyder is probably the best coach in the league right now. The majority of those who should be seen as top-10 coaches at the moment didn't play in the league or abroad, with most playing somewhere in-between mid-major D1 and D3 in college. The current elitist trend towards coaches with NBA playing experience is stupid.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
No, bc I don’t think men should coach women. And this is strictly sports. I’m not saying there can’t be female CEOs. Sports is just a different culture and the players tends to respect coaches who have been where they’ve been & done what they’ve done on the same level. That’s just the truth.
Sexist.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Other than band, music, art and votech, by far most teachers, even the good ones have not done a lick of work in the subject area in which they teach. I wouldn't overlook a possibly best coach because of gender. The minor issues that might raise can be dealt with.

SMH, you guys so stuck in the 2010's. I bet you think a man can't teach a woman how to deliver a baby? 8 billion people in the world, it's not the most difficult thing. Scream, push, while I sit in a lobby drinking coffee and having a smoke even though I don't smoke. That's how you deliver a baby.
 
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