What would improve travel softball?
- Thread starter Yappi
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Yappi
Go Buckeyes
Love the idea of less travel and more practice. The traveling is getting out of hand. What kills me is playing the same teams week after week even if you are playing in Youngstown, Akron, North Ridgeville, Canton, or Ashland.
I wish there was a system where you played in your area to determine who the real "A" teams were and they would go to a regional then state tournament against "A" level teams. Same for the "B" teams. And again for the "C" teams.
Watched in volleyball how they had a season ending tournament with around 12 teams at each level and had about 10 levels.
I wish there was a system where you played in your area to determine who the real "A" teams were and they would go to a regional then state tournament against "A" level teams. Same for the "B" teams. And again for the "C" teams.
Watched in volleyball how they had a season ending tournament with around 12 teams at each level and had about 10 levels.
Thavoice
Well-known member
100%. Same with baseball.
Buuuuuuut...... pockets don't get lined that way.
TDs make less money. Teams won't be able to justify the crazy fees to stuff the organizations coffers.
Blowhard parents won't be able to brag as much.
This is the second weekend since our season ended and yea....it's glorious to no be held hostage.
Too much money in it as it is. System is broke.
HSFB Fan
Well-known member
Sadly fastpitch softball in our area (SW Ohio) has been on a decline since 2015 and after covid it really went down.
Last year most area HS struggled to field JV teams. In the ECC over half the schools only had varsity squads, in the big league GMC many schools dropped Freshman teams and schools that had A/B JV teams struggled to field one.
Recreational leagues are drying up and in a lot of areas and the teams that do form are blended teams or 12 and under and HS 14 and up.
This has a huge impact on the quantity and quality of area travel teams.
Ten years ago teams/families had a lot of travel ball team options at several levels of play. There were many fall ball options for travel/all star recreational teams now it down to about half. I don't know of any winter indoor leagues leagues and I think Sinclair is the only winter tournament..
Parking fees, Gate fees, stay to play fees, along with the steep increase in tournament entry fees played on fields that are not even set up for girls softball are chasing many families away. One of the top college showcase tournaments had games played on a soccer field this year...
As disposable income dries up youth travel sports activities will as well. I look for the fastpitch landscape to change even more the next few years with stronger organizations/teams hosting more one or two day weekend friendlies, or building a competitive league night like is found down south and out west along with boys baseball with a shorter tournament schedule of 2 events per month 4 or 5 per summer and fall.
Last year most area HS struggled to field JV teams. In the ECC over half the schools only had varsity squads, in the big league GMC many schools dropped Freshman teams and schools that had A/B JV teams struggled to field one.
Recreational leagues are drying up and in a lot of areas and the teams that do form are blended teams or 12 and under and HS 14 and up.
This has a huge impact on the quantity and quality of area travel teams.
Ten years ago teams/families had a lot of travel ball team options at several levels of play. There were many fall ball options for travel/all star recreational teams now it down to about half. I don't know of any winter indoor leagues leagues and I think Sinclair is the only winter tournament..
Parking fees, Gate fees, stay to play fees, along with the steep increase in tournament entry fees played on fields that are not even set up for girls softball are chasing many families away. One of the top college showcase tournaments had games played on a soccer field this year...
As disposable income dries up youth travel sports activities will as well. I look for the fastpitch landscape to change even more the next few years with stronger organizations/teams hosting more one or two day weekend friendlies, or building a competitive league night like is found down south and out west along with boys baseball with a shorter tournament schedule of 2 events per month 4 or 5 per summer and fall.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
This is one of my biggest beefs. We have almost 700 schools playing softball. Most of them have real softball fields. Yet, almost every tournament, we are playing on large baseball fields with outfielders standing in the oversized infield dirt. Sometimes on 300+ foot fences. Ground balls that are almost fielded by an infielder turn into inside the park HRs. There are more than enough softball fields in Ohio but the TDs want fields close together to make more money.
Thavoice
Well-known member
Part of it is on general females are less stoked about sports, and all the games, travel, etc runs off more and more of them each year. Add on the overzealous dad's...and we have one locally who is an absolute embarrassment and cannot understand why girls don't wanna play SB ever weekend from marxh-july all over the region.
Also......families tend to spend less on the girls for sports and when money gets a little light...Suzy loses out to Johnny when it comes to sports travel.
Smarty2022
Well-known member
I totally agree with the A,B&C levels and how they are determined. I think better selection of level of play and eliminate Guest players!! Either play with your team or don’t play that weekend. Can Guest players have an impact on where a Team has been sanctioned? Can an “A” Team Player Guest Play for a “B” or “C” Team?
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
Hate allowing guest players, especially guest pitchers. When a guest player is significantly better than the player they are replacing, it gets a little ridiculous. I know there was one team that we played this season that always had a guest player wearing a different shirt and/or pants. Always batted at the top of the lineup and/or pitched most of the game. Fortunately, we beat this team every time we played. Kind of laugh when I see their advertisement recruiting new players for next year. All those suckers they are trying to get to pay for their superstar guest players who don't have to pay a thing.
HSFB Fan
Well-known member
I remember when ASA required ID badges for their events that had the insurance information on the back. (like attached). player rostering was policed better before the start of play and guest players had to be approved by the TD. Now ASA/USA events are run like NSA and PGF where there is little done to actually insure teams and players are legit. There are stories now of teams playing over age ladies, teams picking up players during events and even players playing games for two teams.
USSSA is the only sanctioning body currently that has a system to easily see where teams are registered, their rosters, what they played in and tournament finishes.
The USSSA TDs also seem to be a little better with pooling teams and using an A/B tournament set up.
The MEGA tournaments or showcase style events will take any team and throw them in the mix.
Some tournaments like Lasers used to be invite events, but even they are now just accepting your check as proof you can play vs. the competition. There are a couple C type events that try to be 100% recreational or Rec. All star. But even they still get tournament teams trying to sneak in.
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HSFB Fan
Well-known member
With what teams pay to play Ohio struggles with ladies fastpitch softball tournaments compared to other states.
Very few events actually set up fields for girls softball and many struggle to get pitching plate distance correct or, even set the bases at the correct length.
This year high profile showcase event was played on soccer fields.
The ASA 16U state event played in Findlay Ohio at one time used the Marathon diamonds. A nice but big baseball facility with pitchers mounds behind the pitcher, huge backstop and foul ball area and 300" plus fences on some fields. Defiantly changed the game.
Lasers one year had games on men's softball fields and 65' bases. It helped pitchers and base stealing though...
GAPSS had a year where games were played on open fields, foul lines only on the dirt, with no warm up area. (May be one reason why the tournament no longer exist)...
There are some sweet recreational or City Park facilities around Ohio but they can only host maybe 12 teams so, TDs look for places where there are many fields to draw in as many teams as possible that not only impacts the field set up, but tournament times, restrooms (and this is huge for ladies events) a lot of these mega parks do not allow coolers or grilling so teams get hit with all the fees and have to go offsite or pay high prices for garbage.
Smarty2022
Well-known member
Apparently USSSA had to cancel their last 3 scheduled Summer Tournaments in SW Ohio. Lack of entries they say. Not sure if they have released Fall Tournament Schedule yet.
HSFB Fan
Well-known member
On several other forums there are post about the state of TB and concerns with the economy reshaping tournament ball landscape.
We just got back from a week long vacation down in Pigeon Forge TN. The place did not have the crowds of years past. Even Dolly Wood was like Kings Island this summer where you basically could walk on any ride.
The wife and I stopped up to catch some games at the Ripken experience. There were 12U baseball teams playing but not a lot of teams or, people at the park. Its scary to think as Americans disposable income dries up the things that made America America may not be the same.
Captain Obvious
Active member
A lady I work with has a daughter who played 14U. They did 7 tourneys and won only one game. The constant theme throughout the season was extremely poor fielding. Amazing they couldn't fix that during their every other week, 90 minute practice.
It all comes back to player development. I’m not sure most coaches know how to run a practice, or care to learn new methods. So many revert back to the way things were done when they played. Most practices follow a similar format: stretch, throw, BP, infield and outfield. Very little discussion of situational baseball or softball. Time and effort isn’t maximized because one coach is leading everything while the focus is on an individual or position group on the field. Club soccer and hockey governing bodies require coaches to attend educational sessions to become licensed to coach at the club level. Philosophies and practice plans are discussed and created at their trainings. USA Hockey places a high value on maximizing ice time during practice sessions through drill work. Who is doing the same for baseball and softball? Travel baseball and softball will also improve if/when the lower level teams and players find their way back into rec leagues. Traveling to play baseball and softball used to be for upper 10-20% of players. It’s now the majority because youth sports has become an industry.
Thavoice
Well-known member
W
TDs are in it for one thing ..not the kids....not their development...but $$$. It's all about the Benjamins baby
When youth sports became all about the $$ is when we lost them for good.
We did that ripken once. Insanely expensive per team. Insane. Add in a contrived first day if a meet the team and hr contest and it forced everyone to come a day early.
TDs are in it for one thing ..not the kids....not their development...but $$$. It's all about the Benjamins baby
When youth sports became all about the $$ is when we lost them for good.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
What I think is being lost is all the hardworking rec league volunteers. Those were the people that helped build and maintain the fields. You could watch the transformation of a field from an open empty lot to a great ballpark. It may take a couple decades but you knew how hard everyone worked on it to make it something special for the kids.
A good rec league could have 6+ local teams playing each other throughout the Summer at each age group. These teams had similar skill levels as the bottom 25-35% of travel teams now. If we could go back to that model, we could save parents alot of money and these kids would still become productive members of their HS softball teams. Plus, they would have time to hang out with friends instead of being on the highway to their next big tournament.
A good rec league could have 6+ local teams playing each other throughout the Summer at each age group. These teams had similar skill levels as the bottom 25-35% of travel teams now. If we could go back to that model, we could save parents alot of money and these kids would still become productive members of their HS softball teams. Plus, they would have time to hang out with friends instead of being on the highway to their next big tournament.
redskinfbco92
Well-known member
Make the season last through July and have tryouts take place in August.
Thavoice
Well-known member
I always thought awarding spots on a team 9 months before the season is a bit....crazy
Thavoice
Well-known member
and those 7AM Sunday BP sessions that at times gets cancelled 20-30 min beforehand, by email (not text) even though most of the players are alerady on the road to said 'practice'.
buuut of course, by doing it now they can justify XXXXX more $$$$!
Auggie
Well-known member
My daughter played both JO volleyball and travel softball from 12-14; was much better at softball but stuck with volleyball because it was a better experience for her. One of her biggest beefs was that the her teammates in softball where never as friendly as those in volleyball mostly because teams turned over at a much higher rate year to year than in volleyball. I never had a voice in the decision but if I did I would tell her the same thing for many reasons above. Additionally while JO volleyball can also be a cash grab it was nothing compared to travel softball, especially when you add in the cost of equipment so you can compete at the higher levels.
Not sure how to really make it better without blowing up the entire system which will never happen because too many adults are invested in the current one. Maybe start with a lower level type circuit as an intro that can feed better girls up to more aggressive travel organizations? JO Volleyball does this with a lower regional level that has close by no sleep over tournaments against a similar level of comp, yes some teams dominate but what fun is beating up teams with girls who are either just starting out or are not as all in on the sport? They get put in their place at the big state wide end of the year too, as Yappi mentioned they are seeded based off of a point system of how you do in these local tourneys. You see a lot of life lessons when you find an opponent of similar skill level and a match is tight
Not sure how to really make it better without blowing up the entire system which will never happen because too many adults are invested in the current one. Maybe start with a lower level type circuit as an intro that can feed better girls up to more aggressive travel organizations? JO Volleyball does this with a lower regional level that has close by no sleep over tournaments against a similar level of comp, yes some teams dominate but what fun is beating up teams with girls who are either just starting out or are not as all in on the sport? They get put in their place at the big state wide end of the year too, as Yappi mentioned they are seeded based off of a point system of how you do in these local tourneys. You see a lot of life lessons when you find an opponent of similar skill level and a match is tight
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
Interestingly, that was the exact opposite in my experience. One caveat is that the volleyball was impacted by Covid both years. I help coach our softball travel team which has 10 of the 11 girls from one community and the other started 6 years ago in our youth rec league. The team loses on average one player a year and we pick up another local player. A couple have left and then rejoined in that number. The team has played together for about 8 years. The cost has been anywhere from $0 to $400 a season. We can compete with just about any team in the state but can lose to some lower level teams. Just depends on how they play that day.
For volleyball, playing for the same organization, new tryouts every year. Coaches did not move up with the girls. Many girls moved from one team to another or to another organization altogether. Costs were off the charts, $1400 for the season. Half the tournaments were out of town trips with stay to play. Gate fees were very high. One tournament in particular for one parent was $54 for the weekend. Only one parent was allowed due to Covid. Worst was having to be a line judge. Never following volleyball, I thought it was funny the first time I had to go out there. With a background in tennis, I thought I was pretty good at seeing in and out but that didn't stop the yelling (from the girls). Should have called a foot fault a couple times but didn't want the hassle. Lastly, this team was billed as a top level team. They struggled all season. Ended up coming in second in the final tournament in Columbus but it was one of the lower metal categories.
Auggie
Well-known member
For volleyball was your daughter on a national level team? My daughter thought annual tryouts and new coaches were a good thing, kept girls on their toes and in her club for the most part they still had the same girls moving up together on the better teams. I also think playing with girls from different schools is a good thing, exposes them to different players and types of families; it gets boring playing with the same group year round. She also liked the change in coaches because it gave her different perspectives and favorites could not be carried over year to year. Now the last year I had exposure was 2016 so that can be the stone age but unless you play on a high level national team travel was only a couple times a season and pay at the gate was for only the biggest tournaments that drew teams from both coasts like MEQ. Finally only girls reffed, parents were not allowed to ever ref a game. You can always move down to American or Regional and the travel would be at most 1 weekend + OVRs in Columbus.
One thing is for sure, volleyball participation is up while softball participation is down, the club situation I think plays a part in this.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
It was regional. My niece played back in 2013-2015 and I heard alot of stories similar to yours. It was a major shock how expensive it was for my daughter. Again, this was during Covid, so maybe things were strange for those two years.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
Not to take over a softball thread with volleyball discussion but the one thing that stood out to me about volleyball is that it was an all-consuming culture. Start on August 1st for MS/HS volleyball and play through the middle of May at the OVR's in Columbus. Then the MS/HS coach requires players to come to the open gyms/clinics in the Summer.
It also seemed like one or two organizations controlled the key to volleyball participation. No homegrown teams that played for the fun of it. No tournaments held by the local HS as a fundraiser. OVR seemed to be in total control. Seemed there might have been one other organization that held tournaments in Sandusky. Coming from a softball background, it was a different environment.
It also seemed like one or two organizations controlled the key to volleyball participation. No homegrown teams that played for the fun of it. No tournaments held by the local HS as a fundraiser. OVR seemed to be in total control. Seemed there might have been one other organization that held tournaments in Sandusky. Coming from a softball background, it was a different environment.
HSFB Fan
Well-known member
Honestly you are correct...There is no reason for many families to travel the country for their DD to be playing less than 2hrs away from where they live (and that is the majority of players)....Unless....They have the income and want to for competition and just to see the country like we did. Softball scholarships are lean and the DI talent is signed by their Freshman year of HS in almost 100% of the cases.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
The OHSAA allowing 6 players from the same HS on travel teams year round is a much needed change. Glad to see it as it should make Fall Ball easier for a few travel teams.
Crazy that kids from the same community can't play together but kids from 5 different states can be on a team.
Crazy that kids from the same community can't play together but kids from 5 different states can be on a team.
CedarBuck92
Well-known member
I think some combination of local games with 1 or 2 tourneys would be good for most teams.