Week 5: Elder(2-2) vs. Louisville St. Xavier(2-1)

i guess there aren't many good offensive lines in D1 football then. i suppose a good OL must avg 6'4 or 6'5 280#?

jtk
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240 is probably the minimum weight. Not so concerned with height for the interior OL but I imagine you want Tackles to be at least 6’3’’
 
So you want to single out the guy that is 215 apparently. Fine..... Do you have stats that shows he has missed more blocks, given up more sacks, or QB hurries than the other 4?

As for the tipped passes.....Elder's O-Line is taller than Ed's?? Seriously, where do you come up with this??
Elder’s Tackles aren’t taller than Ed’s DEs, that’s where you see a lot of tipped passes. And I don’t have any kind of advanced OL metrics, I doubt anyone keeps those at the HS level. All I know is what I’ve seen with my own eyes. The OL can’t get any kind of push, they struggle in pass protection and they’re very poor at understanding assignments on blitzes. The issue with blocking assignments on could be coaching, but I’ve never seen an Elder OL struggle so much with this, which leads me to believe it’s more about the players.
 
It really shouldn't be as big of debate as this. Simple facts, our O Line, regardless if it's due to size or technique, has the biggest room for improvement and has been the most noticeable of needing improvement. Offensive play calling and the rushing game could be better, but they are limited due to the inability to keep defenders out. The defense has been streaky but somewhat solid until last week with not the greatest tackling. And the touchdowns within 2 minutes of the first half ending has to stop.

Overall, this team has the pieces to at least compete, which as a proud Elder Alum, that's all we can ask for. I know these kids are trying their best, it's just kind of eye opening to see Elder have a running clock put on them at home.
 
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Elder’s Tackles aren’t taller than Ed’s DEs, that’s where you see a lot of tipped passes. And I don’t have any kind of advanced OL metrics, I doubt anyone keeps those at the HS level. All I know is what I’ve seen with my own eyes. The OL can’t get any kind of push, they struggle in pass protection and they’re very poor at understanding assignments on blitzes. The issue with blocking assignments on could be coaching, but I’ve never seen an Elder OL struggle so much with this, which leads me to believe it’s more about the players.
Here's where you are wrong..... Again..... this is quite an impressive pattern.

Only 1 of Ed's DEs is taller than Elder's OT.

Also, every coach keeps track of O-Line stats at the high school level for the past probably 15 years or so. Every staff that I have been on and talked to does. Every player gets a grade on every play...... teams do it differently, but at least you have quantifiable evidence of who is producing and who is not. If Elder is not doing this, then this is on coaching.

Lastly, for weeks you kept saying how much smaller Elder's line was than everyone and that's why they were struggling. Now, it's a different tune..... no push, poor pass protections, and missed blitz assignments. That's a far cry from being too small. That is all, 100% on the O-Line coach and on Coach Ramsey.
 
Yeah bc the OL totally didn’t struggle vs Eds or PC. And I know they’re 2 of the best teams in the state, but that’s who Elder benchmarks themselves against.
So here's my problem with your crusade against the OL and people's lack of concern for Elder losing big at home to Eds - you've said yourself several times now that you think they'll wind up 6-4 and maybe win a couple playoff games. These are your own expectations.

So if Eds and PC both had success against the OL, and they're two of the better teams in the state, why are you so concerned that Elder struggled when in your own admission you think Elder is only an above average, not make it out of the Region squad?

Let's also be clear, you suggest Elder benchmarks themselves against these two teams, and that's fair, I would agree. But when you don't believe this team is better than 6-4 with a loss before the Regional Final, then what are you complaining about? You can be upset they got beat badly at home, but that's about it.

So to review:
You believe Elder is an elite program or should view themselves as an elite program, yet you don't believe this year's team is elite, but you're mad they've lost to two other elite programs. Do you understand how stupid that sounds?
 
So here's my problem with your crusade against the OL and people's lack of concern for Elder losing big at home to Eds - you've said yourself several times now that you think they'll wind up 6-4 and maybe win a couple playoff games. These are your own expectations.

So if Eds and PC both had success against the OL, and they're two of the better teams in the state, why are you so concerned that Elder struggled when in your own admission you think Elder is only an above average, not make it out of the Region squad?

Let's also be clear, you suggest Elder benchmarks themselves against these two teams, and that's fair, I would agree. But when you don't believe this team is better than 6-4 with a loss before the Regional Final, then what are you complaining about? You can be upset they got beat badly at home, but that's about it.

So to review:
You believe Elder is an elite program or should view themselves as an elite program, yet you don't believe this year's team is elite, but you're mad they've lost to two other elite programs. Do you understand how stupid that sounds?
Bryan Cranston Mic Drop GIF
 
Here's where you are wrong..... Again..... this is quite an impressive pattern.

Only 1 of Ed's DEs is taller than Elder's OT.

Also, every coach keeps track of O-Line stats at the high school level for the past probably 15 years or so. Every staff that I have been on and talked to does. Every player gets a grade on every play...... teams do it differently, but at least you have quantifiable evidence of who is producing and who is not. If Elder is not doing this, then this is on coaching.

Lastly, for weeks you kept saying how much smaller Elder's line was than everyone and that's why they were struggling. Now, it's a different tune..... no push, poor pass protections, and missed blitz assignments. That's a far cry from being too small. That is all, 100% on the O-Line coach and on Coach Ramsey.
Height and weight are extremely important factors for good offensive lineman. However, you have to be an athlete as well. The current lineman have comparable size, but are they that athletic? In the past few years Elder has had undersized lineman such as Mullaney, Finley, and Berger. These kids were extremely good athletes. Finley and Berger were also very smart players at the center position. They would call out protections and blitz pick ups. It also helped that they had 2 of the best athletes Elder has ever seen playing QB, in Bittner and Leubbe.
 
Height and weight are extremely important factors for good offensive lineman. However, you have to be an athlete as well. The current lineman have comparable size, but are they that athletic? In the past few years Elder has had undersized lineman such as Mullaney, Finley, and Berger. These kids were extremely good athletes. Finley and Berger were also very smart players at the center position. They would call out protections and blitz pick ups. It also helped that they had 2 of the best athletes Elder has ever seen playing QB, in Bittner and Leubbe.

The center is a returning starter from last year. Offensive line stats and grades aren't available online anywhere. I can only guess he is doing the job if he is a returning starter and still in there.

From what I have seen, they mostly do a good job in pass protection, but notably last game the blitz pick up was not there. That could be that Ed's is very good at what they do on defense. It's certainly not easy the way they disguise things and know what formations they can exploit. I do think it's tough for them to get a good run game push to open up holes, but Elder passes more than they run.

Let's give the offensive line a break. They are high school kids working their butt off.
 
Here's where you are wrong..... Again..... this is quite an impressive pattern.

Only 1 of Ed's DEs is taller than Elder's OT.

Also, every coach keeps track of O-Line stats at the high school level for the past probably 15 years or so. Every staff that I have been on and talked to does. Every player gets a grade on every play...... teams do it differently, but at least you have quantifiable evidence of who is producing and who is not. If Elder is not doing this, then this is on coaching.

Lastly, for weeks you kept saying how much smaller Elder's line was than everyone and that's why they were struggling. Now, it's a different tune..... no push, poor pass protections, and missed blitz assignments. That's a far cry from being too small. That is all, 100% on the O-Line coach and on Coach Ramsey.
Again, I’m trying to not single out a single player. And it’s my belief the players are at fault for the poor blitz pickups. Elder’s never had an issue with this before and it’s the same staff they’ve had for decades.
 
Height and weight are extremely important factors for good offensive lineman. However, you have to be an athlete as well. The current lineman have comparable size, but are they that athletic? In the past few years Elder has had undersized lineman such as Mullaney, Finley, and Berger. These kids were extremely good athletes. Finley and Berger were also very smart players at the center position. They would call out protections and blitz pick ups. It also helped that they had 2 of the best athletes Elder has ever seen playing QB, in Bittner and Leubbe.
Wasn’t Berger 260? And he was the smallest member of that OL.
 
So here's my problem with your crusade against the OL and people's lack of concern for Elder losing big at home to Eds - you've said yourself several times now that you think they'll wind up 6-4 and maybe win a couple playoff games. These are your own expectations.

So if Eds and PC both had success against the OL, and they're two of the better teams in the state, why are you so concerned that Elder struggled when in your own admission you think Elder is only an above average, not make it out of the Region squad?

Let's also be clear, you suggest Elder benchmarks themselves against these two teams, and that's fair, I would agree. But when you don't believe this team is better than 6-4 with a loss before the Regional Final, then what are you complaining about? You can be upset they got beat badly at home, but that's about it.

So to review:
You believe Elder is an elite program or should view themselves as an elite program, yet you don't believe this year's team is elite, but you're mad they've lost to two other elite programs. Do you understand how stupid that sounds?
I’m not mad they lost. I’m mad they got a running clock put on them. And the Eds & PC DL didn’t just have “success”, they dominated and there’s were several times Hambleton could’ve gotten badly hurt.

And it was just 3-4 years ago when X was 6-4 ish team. Even the elite teams can have dips.
 
The center is a returning starter from last year. Offensive line stats and grades aren't available online anywhere. I can only guess he is doing the job if he is a returning starter and still in there.

From what I have seen, they mostly do a good job in pass protection, but notably last game the blitz pick up was not there. That could be that Ed's is very good at what they do on defense. It's certainly not easy the way they disguise things and know what formations they can exploit. I do think it's tough for them to get a good run game push to open up holes, but Elder passes more than they run.

Let's give the offensive line a break. They are high school kids working their butt off.
They’re working hard and playing hurt, but they have to get better.
 
Again, I’m trying to not single out a single player. And it’s my belief the players are at fault for the poor blitz pickups. Elder’s never had an issue with this before and it’s the same staff they’ve had for decades.
Why is it the players' faults? Either they haven't been coached well enough on blitz pickups, OR the coach is allowing the players to play poorly. I'm willing to guess Elder has 15 or so O-Linemen on their varsity roster, you can find a group that understand blitz pickups. As a coach, you promote whatever you tolerate.
 
My guess is that certain kids will be allowed to fail 1,000 times before another kid gets just 1 shot.

And even if that kid makes good in that one shot, the other kid will come in the next play.

There’s also a lot of weapons on offense. They should utilize them a lot more.
 
Why is it the players' faults? Either they haven't been coached well enough on blitz pickups, OR the coach is allowing the players to play poorly. I'm willing to guess Elder has 15 or so O-Linemen on their varsity roster, you can find a group that understand blitz pickups. As a coach, you promote whatever you tolerate.
Players are the ones playing the game. And we have good coaches.
 
I’m not mad they lost. I’m mad they got a running clock put on them. And the Eds & PC DL didn’t just have “success”, they dominated and there’s were several times Hambleton could’ve gotten badly hurt.

And it was just 3-4 years ago when X was 6-4 ish team. Even the elite teams can have dips.
Well that's what I'm getting at then. You're beating a dead horse at this point with the comments on the OL but you believe the team isn't as good as these elite level teams this year.

Running clocks happen. Didn't Elder put a running clock on X in '18 or at least come close? Elder has put a running clock on Moeller recently. X just put a running clock on Colerain. It happens, get over it. Sometimes a game will just snowball and leads balloon as one team tries playing catch up (see X game in '18, or even last year's playoff game at X). No one has to feel great about it, but it will happen once in a blue moon. Just have to move on from it.
 
Why is it the players' faults? Either they haven't been coached well enough on blitz pickups, OR the coach is allowing the players to play poorly. I'm willing to guess Elder has 15 or so O-Linemen on their varsity roster, you can find a group that understand blitz pickups. As a coach, you promote whatever you tolerate.
Elder’s never had so much trouble with this before and the staff is the same as it’s been for decades. That leads me to believe it’s more about the players than coaches.
 
Well that's what I'm getting at then. You're beating a dead horse at this point with the comments on the OL but you believe the team isn't as good as these elite level teams this year.

Running clocks happen. Didn't Elder put a running clock on X in '18 or at least come close? Elder has put a running clock on Moeller recently. X just put a running clock on Colerain. It happens, get over it. Sometimes a game will just snowball and leads balloon as one team tries playing catch up (see X game in '18, or even last year's playoff game at X). No one has to feel great about it, but it will happen once in a blue moon. Just have to move on from it.
Moeller isn’t elite. They might get back to that, but not right now. And Colerain is a far cry from what they once were. X is the best team in the city, but putting a turbo clock on Colerain doesn’t mean the same thing it did a few yrs ago.

And this was the 2nd time in 4 years Eds put a running clock on Elder. It happened back in 2017 as well. And it would’ve happened in 2013 if the running clock was around.
 
Hey thanks for the heads up. Can you park in the hospital down the street from the school? Any good parking options? I am looking forward to some Hometown Pizza on Friday.
Welcome Panther fans to Louisville St X. I am with St Xavier's broadcast team and originally from Cincy ( Bacon Grad). I married a Seton girl and have 5 brother in laws that are Elder grads. So let me give you some ideas and helping hints about tomorrow.
First off, traffic will be horrible with the U of L game on the Watterson Expressway. ( ok not as bad as the brent spence! )
First, Hometown Pizza is ok but specialize in pizza buffets so with Covid hasn't been a regular spot for me in the last 2 years. Bearnos,(https://bearnos.com/ and Wicks (https://www.wickspizza.com/ )are the best locals ( think a sports bar ish La Rosas ) and if you want Chicago style pizza, Impellizeris ( http://impellizzeris.com/)is incredible.
Tomorrow night is Little Tiger night so all of the little kids get to run on the field after the game. Parking in the St X lot is tough to get out of after a game so I suggest parking at George Rogers Clark park across from the driveway entrance to St X. You may be able to enjoy an adult beverage over there tailgating as adult beverages are forbidden on St Xavier property.
The closest thing to Price hill chili is a bar on Burnett called Checks cafe. You stand in line, order your food and drink and they bring it out to you. Since St Xavier is in Germantown, rest assured you can get a brat there.
The St X crowd will be at Tim Tam ( on Clarks ) for pregame that usually has a large tent set up on game night and serves food too.
The visitor side of Brother Thomas Moore Stadium has only 4 rows from goal line to goal line so you are welcome to sit on the home side.
Our Concession stand has pretty good grilled chicken sandwiches. However with all of the little Tigers, it will be crowded.
I attached the 2 deep media sheet and none of the 6 defensive injured players are listed on that sheet so expect a high scoring offensive game. The sheet has a link to our stats too if you want to peruse that. We broadcast locally tomorrow on 1080 AM, getting kicked off of our regular 50,000 watt 790 AM for the U of L game.
Really looking forward to seeing the Panthers tomorrow. Really looking forward to our return trip next year to the Pit. If anyone has direct questions, just im me at jimmyref@yahoo.com.
 

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Moeller isn’t elite. They might get back to that, but not right now. And Colerain is a far cry from what they once were. X is the best team in the city, but putting a turbo clock on Colerain doesn’t mean the same thing it did a few yrs ago.

And this was the 2nd time in 4 years Eds put a running clock on Elder. It happened back in 2017 as well. And it would’ve happened in 2013 if the running clock was around.
Ok fine. X put a running clock on PC in the state championship game. My point is it happens.
 
Oh and another thing for pboy to get his head around- Moeller is coming - they’re gonna be solid for a few years.

And St X may hit the elite status over the next few years. They’re loaded with football talent.
 
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