Week 5: Elder(2-2) vs. Louisville St. Xavier(2-1)

pantherland

Active member
I'm kind of confused again. People are talking about lack of depth. Are you kidding me with Elder's roster size and completely separate JV team? Talk to me when they are trying to compete at a high level with less than 50 total boys playing football grades 9-12. Depth is a strength for Elder and all GCL schools.

Now an honest question that may not go over very well. Why do fans and coaches believe that most of these boys standing on the sidelines can't play on Friday night? That is all strength and conditioning in the off-season. It seems every year, Elder has really solid Freshman teams but by the time they hit varsity, the strength component tips the other way with the GCL schools. How do you have 80+ on just a varsity roster and not be stronger than everyone else and have more depth than everyone except teams with 90+ on the varsity roster. There is no point to having that many kids if they can't play and contribute.
Some kids are just playing to be part of the team and say they play football. There's nothing wrong with that.

Some play because they think they have a shot of getting some pt in all reality probably won't play too much.
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Some of those kids that start out playing freshman year hang it up to play other sports they enjoy more, to concentrate more on school, to work , hang out with girlfriends, etc

Elder is only two years removed from playing for a state title. Remember that. This group just isn't as talented as Eds, X , Pc and some of the powers that they have played.

They have 1 legitimate D1 player (ramsey) in the senior and junior class. The rest are nice high school players, but not high end that will not beat teams like that often. If they schedule was easier and had boone county, ryle, oak hills etc on it the record would look better. It's going to be an average year and that happens when you have a gautlet of a schedule like ours is.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
Some of the messages since the game are getting out of hand. Do you guys think just because Louisville St. X is a Kentucky team Elder was going to walk all over them? They have a great football tradition with multiple state titles. They returned a lot from last year's state semi-final team. I understand they were missing a couple defensive starters, but clearly they got some depth to replace them. Their offense with the QB Sivori and Mekhi Smith and a good offensive line was on par with any GCL team most years.

Had Elder held on to the 21-17 win or came back to win 28-24 everyone would be singing a different tune. Instead, the sky is falling with Trey whining about Elder alumni clearing the path for little Johnny and now the strength coach stinks apparently. Give it a rest.

The injury to a 3 year defensive starter is really devastating news, but there are kids in the program who can step up. The season is not over, but you would think this was a playoff loss last night from reading the forum this morning.
 
2 years ago Elder had an offensive line that was best in state. And they almost were state Champs. This year they don't. Creative play calling and sound defense are important (ask Pick Central). Playmakers are important. But D1 football requires big strong dudes up front to make it all work. There is a reason that 7v7 does not always translate to real games. It's hard to compete if you can't run consistently and QB's got a short internal clock. X offensive line is best in city (have not seen Ed's) even with a starter out for year. X Qb has no sacks and no picks all year because he is comfortable and has time. Get the some hosses and everything will be OK.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
I'm kind of confused again. People are talking about lack of depth. Are you kidding me with Elder's roster size and completely separate JV team? Talk to me when they are trying to compete at a high level with less than 50 total boys playing football grades 9-12. Depth is a strength for Elder and all GCL schools.

The senior class has a nice small core of talent, but the overall numbers in this class were down a lot when they were freshman. Senior heavy teams do well like we saw last night from Lou. St. X. The junior class behind them while good didn't really complement the class well with many big men to play oline and dline.

Elder also had 2 senior offensive lineman quit in the preseason that could have helped.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
2 years ago Elder had an offensive line that was best in state. And they almost were state Champs. This year they don't. Creative play calling and sound defense are important (ask Pick Central). Playmakers are important. But D1 football requires big strong dudes up front to make it all work. There is a reason that 7v7 does not always translate to real games. It's hard to compete if you can't run consistently and QB's got a short internal clock. X offensive line is best in city (have not seen Ed's) even with a starter out for year. X Qb has no sacks and no picks all year because he is comfortable and has time. Get the some hosses and everything will be OK.

I watched some of the X-Moeller game last night. St. Xavier's line is not only big but good. Sometimes you can see a big line not be very good. They are very good. Combine that with a returning QB who throws pretty well and can run and you have good skill options and I don't know how you stop that unless you're St. Ed's or Pick Central.

The one time I saw Moeller sack the X QB, the refs protected him like he was Tom Brady and threw a personal foul on him. It was worst personal foul call I've ever seen in high school football. The Moeller kid got a PF called on him just because he tackled precious X QB too hard.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
2 years ago Elder had an offensive line that was best in state. And they almost were state Champs. This year they don't. Creative play calling and sound defense are important (ask Pick Central). Playmakers are important. But D1 football requires big strong dudes up front to make it all work. There is a reason that 7v7 does not always translate to real games. It's hard to compete if you can't run consistently and QB's got a short internal clock. X offensive line is best in city (have not seen Ed's) even with a starter out for year. X Qb has no sacks and no picks all year because he is comfortable and has time. Get the some hosses and everything will be OK.

I understand your point, but don't sell the rest of the 2019 team short. That team was loaded not just offensive line.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
Some kids are just playing to be part of the team and say they play football. There's nothing wrong with that.

Some play because they think they have a shot of getting some pt in all reality probably won't play too much.

From my own personal coaching standpoint, I despise the first group of players you describe. What do they add to your team? And if there are truly that many out of 80+ boys, then that leads me to believe that the off-season weight and conditioning is a far cry from where it should be. It should be extremely grueling and we'll developed that the "jersey wearers" won't want to go thru it. I want guys that enjoy the grind, that are gym rats and want to improve.

The second group that want PT, I want them, if they put the work in. Again, if the guys are putting the work in, why are they not ready to get PT? I'm not saying they all have to start, but why are they not able to get snaps that aren't in "garbage time?"

I'm not here to be all doom and gloom like some and respect the hell out of Elder's program. I also understand every team, even private schools have ebbs and flows. But I always wondered why Elder always had huge rosters on varsity but only played around 25 kids? Seems like a huge waste of opportunity.
 

Westsidepublic

Active member
I watched some of the X-Moeller game last night. St. Xavier's line is not only big but good. Sometimes you can see a big line not be very good. They are very good. Combine that with a returning QB who throws pretty well and can run and you have good skill options and I don't know how you stop that unless you're St. Ed's or Pick Central.

The one time I saw Moeller sack the X QB, the refs protected him like he was Tom Brady and threw a personal foul on him. It was worst personal foul call I've ever seen in high school football. The Moeller kid got a PF called on him just because he tackled precious X QB too hard.
Not sure how you protect someone like Tom Brady, but if your referring to the play where his helmet was torn off and they call a face mask penalty, I would hope refs. Would protect any player on the field without a helmet.
 

UCArch

Well-known member
You keep posting bs propaganda like this, and it really doesn't even make any sense. Did you go to elder? Or just like to troll on here or what? You've said this kinda stuff before, it really doesn't hold much weight or make any sense and seems like a lot of bollocks to me. Maybe if you're the only one who sees it this way, then you're the one with the problem? What should be most important is academic success and being taught how to be good young men, and from my experience, Elder does that tremendously. So whatever you're talking about, maybe belongs on another teams sports thread, I'd take an L in football any day opposed to changing the culture of the school to acting like a bunch of punk oak hills kids. Get a grip and take that bs on over to a different team's thread, after awhile your phony narrative falls upon deaf ears. I wake up to read about the game and have to see dumb like this, smh.
How does expanding their recruiting reach turn the kids into punks? If my BS is BS, then so is this.

This is what I mean when I talk about an expanded world view. People are so doubled down on their way of life, they can’t possible see a different way that would work. And it’s also BS.
 

UCArch

Well-known member
I'm kind of confused again. People are talking about lack of depth. Are you kidding me with Elder's roster size and completely separate JV team? Talk to me when they are trying to compete at a high level with less than 50 total boys playing football grades 9-12. Depth is a strength for Elder and all GCL schools.

Now an honest question that may not go over very well. Why do fans and coaches believe that most of these boys standing on the sidelines can't play on Friday night? That is all strength and conditioning in the off-season. It seems every year, Elder has really solid Freshman teams but by the time they hit varsity, the strength component tips the other way with the GCL schools. How do you have 80+ on just a varsity roster and not be stronger than everyone else and have more depth than everyone except teams with 90+ on the varsity roster. There is no point to having that many kids if they can't play and contribute.
This is also spot on, yet people say I have a axe to grind. Playing time and roster spots are guaranteed for some, and takes the movement of a mountain for others. There are kids that are christened from the very beginning, and usually those kids get the benefit of the doubt for 4 years. The other kids have to do double work to pass them up, and find it impossible to get their shot.

Again, another reality that is glossed over as “propaganda”.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
Not sure how you protect someone like Tom Brady, but if your referring to the play where his helmet was torn off and they call a face mask penalty, I would hope refs. Would protect any player on the field without a helmet.

Correct. I did not see a face mask. I saw the Moeller kid run the QB down from behind and bring him to the ground. Helmets seem to come off a lot these days. They got the call because they are St. Xavier and the returning state champs. That simple.

Not only was it not a personal foul, the refs didn't even make the QB go out of the game for a play which by rule your helmet comes off during a play you have to come out.
 

UCArch

Well-known member
From my own personal coaching standpoint, I despise the first group of players you describe. What do they add to your team? And if there are truly that many out of 80+ boys, then that leads me to believe that the off-season weight and conditioning is a far cry from where it should be. It should be extremely grueling and we'll developed that the "jersey wearers" won't want to go thru it. I want guys that enjoy the grind, that are gym rats and want to improve.

The second group that want PT, I want them, if they put the work in. Again, if the guys are putting the work in, why are they not ready to get PT? I'm not saying they all have to start, but why are they not able to get snaps that aren't in "garbage time?"

I'm not here to be all doom and gloom like some and respect the hell out of Elder's program. I also understand every team, even private schools have ebbs and flows. But I always wondered why Elder always had huge rosters on varsity but only played around 25 kids? Seems like a huge waste of opportunity.
These type of posts that are filled with great points and are largely ignored or tagged as trolls, but these are the questions that really should be being asked.
 

Westsidepublic

Active member
Correct. I did not see a face mask. I saw the Moeller kid run the QB down from behind and bring him to the ground. Helmets seem to come off a lot these days. They got the call because they are St. Xavier and the returning state champs. That simple.

Not only was it not a personal foul, the refs didn't even make the QB go out of the game for a play which by rule your helmet comes off during a play you have to come out.
If your going to discuss something you should probably know the rules. If the helmet comes off in the process of a called penalty the player does not need to come out of the game.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
This is also spot on, yet people say I have a axe to grind. Playing time and roster spots are guaranteed for some, and takes the movement of a mountain for others. There are kids that are christened from the very beginning, and usually those kids get the benefit of the doubt for 4 years. The other kids have to do double work to pass them up, and find it impossible to get their shot.

Again, another reality that is glossed over as “propaganda”.

You are joking right? Take a look at the roster and tell me there is someone in the junior or senior class that is getting glossed over. The coaches are going to play the best they have they don't care where they are from. Maybe their opinion of who is the best is different from someone else's but they are the coach. They are also with them in practice each day.

If anything, Elder is too loyal to their upper classman and some sophomores don't always get the opportunity.
 

UCArch

Well-known member
You can start with the Freshman Coaches not being very good (including my family member on the Frosh Staff). For a number of years been complaints on here of the Freshman Coaches “Running kids off” after freshman season. I don’t know much about the strength and conditioning guy to comment but the rest of the Elder Staff is really not all that good at player development. Large number of players mean nothing if they are not getting better at least yr to yr or over a 4 yr career.
I know dads are biased so I’ll say this with a grain of salt - but I know more dads and kids that were so frustrated with lack of opportunity and quit or gave up than I know who actually stuck around to play.

Especially on average teams where there was no reason for other kids not to get a shot - the same kids still played. It makes no sense.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
If your going to discuss something you should probably know the rules. If the helmet comes off in the process of a called penalty the player does not need to come out of the game.

Wow, you learn something new everyday. Retract my criticism of the ref for not taking him out of a game for a play. Double down on the ref giving the almighty Bombers the call.
 

UCArch

Well-known member
You are joking right? Take a look at the roster and tell me there is someone in the junior or senior class that is getting glossed over. The coaches are going to play the best they have they don't care where they are from. Maybe their opinion of who is the best is different from someone else's but they are the coach. They are also with them in practice each day.

If anything, Elder is too loyal to their upper classman and some sophomores don't always get the opportunity.
You just said it yourself. If there are better sophomores, they should be on the field. If someone isn’t getting the job done, then others should get an opportunity. At 2-4, others should be getting looks.

If there’s no one else to put in with a roster of 70+, that is a huge, huge developmental problem or a huge bias problem. Either way, not good.
 
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Omar

Well-known member
Some of the messages since the game are getting out of hand. Do you guys think just because Louisville St. X is a Kentucky team Elder was going to walk all over them? They have a great football tradition with multiple state titles. They returned a lot from last year's state semi-final team. I understand they were missing a couple defensive starters, but clearly they got some depth to replace them. Their offense with the QB Sivori and Mekhi Smith and a good offensive line was on par with any GCL team most years.

Had Elder held on to the 21-17 win or came back to win 28-24 everyone would be singing a different tune. Instead, the sky is falling with Trey whining about Elder alumni clearing the path for little Johnny and now the strength coach stinks apparently. Give it a rest.

The injury to a 3 year defensive starter is really devastating news, but there are kids in the program who can step up. The season is not over, but you would think this was a playoff loss last night from reading the forum this morning.
I’m not trying to be negative, but your blind optimism isn’t helping. Ville X was down a ton of starters on D and Elder’s Offense only scored 21 points. The season isn’t technically over, but they’re not any threat to win the region.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
I know dads are biased so I’ll say this with a grain of salt - but I know more dads and kids that were so frustrated with lack of opportunity and quit or gave up than I know who actually stuck around to play.

Especially on average teams where there was no reason for other kids not to get a shot - the same kids still played. It makes no sense.

Were they showing anything in practice to deserve a shot? Let's say Player A is playing average. Is there any evidence Player B behind him will play better?
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
I’m not trying to be negative, but your blind optimism isn’t helping. Ville X was down a ton of starters on D and Elder’s Offense only scored 21 points. The season isn’t technically over, but they’re not any threat to win the region.

I couldn't tell from the stream that looked like they were filming with a flip phone, but I believe I heard names mentioned that the Ville poster said was out. I know the star end was out though.

Was Elder ever any threat to win the region this year? X returned 17 starters from a state championship team and Lakota West outplayed Elder in a scrimmage not to mention the talent LW has this year.
 

Omar

Well-known member
From my own personal coaching standpoint, I despise the first group of players you describe. What do they add to your team? And if there are truly that many out of 80+ boys, then that leads me to believe that the off-season weight and conditioning is a far cry from where it should be. It should be extremely grueling and we'll developed that the "jersey wearers" won't want to go thru it. I want guys that enjoy the grind, that are gym rats and want to improve.

The second group that want PT, I want them, if they put the work in. Again, if the guys are putting the work in, why are they not ready to get PT? I'm not saying they all have to start, but why are they not able to get snaps that aren't in "garbage time?"

I'm not here to be all doom and gloom like some and respect the hell out of Elder's program. I also understand every team, even private schools have ebbs and flows. But I always wondered why Elder always had huge rosters on varsity but only played around 25 kids? Seems like a huge waste of opportunity.
You can want PT but still not be good enough to play.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
You just said it yourself. If there are better sophomores, they should be on the field. If someone isn’t getting the job done, then others should get an opportunity. At 2-4, others should be getting looks.

If there’s no one else to put in with a roster of 70+, that is a huge, huge developmental problem.

We will see if any get a chance in the coming weeks. Let's hope they get a good look in practice at least.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Were they showing anything in practice to deserve a shot? Let's say Player A is playing average. Is there any evidence Player B behind him will play better?
He doesn’t known what the f he’s talking about. There’s like 30 seniors on this roster.
 

Omar

Well-known member
We will see if any get a chance in the coming weeks. Let's hope they get a good look in practice at least.
Again, he’s a moron. There’s a low # of Srs and the Jr class is mediocre. They’re playing a god dam Freshman at LB, so don’t heed any of his bs.
 

Omar

Well-known member
I couldn't tell from the stream that looked like they were filming with a flip phone, but I believe I heard names mentioned that the Ville poster said was out. I know the star end was out though.

Was Elder ever any threat to win the region this year? X returned 17 starters from a state championship team and Lakota West outplayed Elder in a scrimmage not to mention the talent LW has this year.
They should’ve been able to at least hang with them. Now, they’re going to get bufu’d.
 

UCArch

Well-known member
Were they showing anything in practice to deserve a shot? Let's say Player A is playing average. Is there any evidence Player B behind him will play better?
And do the kids that produce .500 or worse records deserve to continue to get all of the opportunity? So they don’t get the job done in the games but no one else gets a shot at it?

Practice performance matters but game performance doesn’t? What?
 

Omar

Well-known member
2 years ago Elder had an offensive line that was best in state. And they almost were state Champs. This year they don't. Creative play calling and sound defense are important (ask Pick Central). Playmakers are important. But D1 football requires big strong dudes up front to make it all work. There is a reason that 7v7 does not always translate to real games. It's hard to compete if you can't run consistently and QB's got a short internal clock. X offensive line is best in city (have not seen Ed's) even with a starter out for year. X Qb has no sacks and no picks all year because he is comfortable and has time. Get the some hosses and everything will be OK.
No duh. The problem is how do they get these studs?
 
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