Week 4: Elder(3-0) vs. St. Edward(3-0) Away

Omar said:
They could rush the ball bc they were also a threat to pass. Are you so dense you don’t understand that?
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You rush the ball 75%+ of the time because the defense is afraid of the pass...... All season long?

And I'm the dense one?

I now see why everyone rags on you. You dont stick to anything, have no statistics for anything, claim you're not smarter than coaches but insist they do what you want. Then they do what you wanted them to do and that's not good enough, even though you admit you are not as smart.

You keep believing the secret to high school football success is through the air, and I'll be here in December to laugh when at least 6 of the 7 state champs pound the ball all season long.

Ed's rush yards were more than double Elder's total offense, but you're right, it's all about the pass. And again, I'm the dense one. Good thin numbers don't lie.
 
cincifbfan said:
You rush the ball 75%+ of the time because the defense is afraid of the pass...... All season long?

And I'm the dense one?

I now see why everyone rags on you. You dont stick to anything, have no statistics for anything, claim you're not smarter than coaches but insist they do what you want. Then they do what you wanted them to do and that's not good enough, even though you admit you are not as smart.

You keep believing the secret to high school football success is through the air, and I'll be here in December to laugh when at least 6 of the 7 state champs pound the ball all season long.

Ed's rush yards were more than double Elder's total offense, but you're right, it's all about the pass. And again, I'm the dense one. Good thin numbers don't lie.
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It’s not all about the pass, but you need to be able to pass to help run the ball. Good Lord, it’s not that complex. In modern football, you have to stretch the field to keep the Secondary honest. Otherwise, they’re going to keep rolling up a Safety in the box to stop the run. And if you’re Eds with a massive OL, you might still be able to run the ball effectively vs an 8-9 man box, but most teams don’t have that OL.
 
Omar said:
It’s not all about the pass, but you need to be able to pass to help run the ball. Good Lord, it’s not that complex. In modern football, you have to stretch the field to keep the Secondary honest. Otherwise, they’re going to keep rolling up a Safety in the box to stop the run. And if you’re Eds with a massive OL, you might still be able to run the ball effectively vs an 8-9 man box, but most teams don’t have that OL.
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I'll be here in December to tell you how wrong you are.
 
Omar said:
I don’t see any way this is close, Elder got exposed at Corner and the OL, they don’t have the guns to matchup vs Eds. The travel factor doesn’t help.


Like EF02, I hope I’m wrong. It gets old chalking this game up to an L every year. I understand Eds is going to be better on average, but it would be nice to get a few more wins in the series. That won’t happen until Elder gets more speed on the roster. Toledo Central Catholic pushed Eds in the 1st game this year, but they have loads of athletes that Elder doesn’t.
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The corners have played well through 4 games. The OL isn't the best Elder has had, but I think they are doing better than last season overall. They had a huge challenge with Ed's. They just need to keep getting better every week. The schedule doesn't get easier.
 
Omar said:
Impressive effort. I still think they need to re-evaluate the personnel at OL. It’s limiting the Offense. TBH, this is the best Elder D I’ve seen in a long time. They played their a** off and gave Elder a chance to win.
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Not sure what changes they can make. The starting RT was lost before season started. I have to believe Ramsey and James are playing the best they have.
 
cincifbfan said:
I'm curious why you are so focused on the O-Line and not the D-line that gave up 298 yards rushing? You praise a defense that got shredded on the ground.
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I was going to say the same thing. Giving up 298 yards on the ground will not win you many games.

They need to get another big body on the line. Freeman and Ginn/Heitz at DT with Hulen and McKenna at DE, 3 LB Dugan, Voelkerding, Arnold. CB Morman, Priestle, S Gutekunst and Morgan
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
Not sure what changes they can make. The starting RT was lost before season started. I have to believe Ramsey and James are playing the best they have.
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Maybe, but the situation needs to be evaluated otherwise there would never be any personnel changes in season.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
The corners have played well through 4 games. The OL isn't the best Elder has had, but I think they are doing better than last season overall. They had a huge challenge with Ed's. They just need to keep getting better every week. The schedule doesn't get easier.
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They didn’t play well for the majority of the Springboro game either. That’s what’s worrisome.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
I was going to say the same thing. Giving up 298 yards on the ground will not win you many games.

They need to get another big body on the line. Freeman and Ginn/Heitz at DT with Hulen and McKenna at DE, 3 LB Dugan, Voelkerding, Arnold. CB Morman, Priestle, S Gutekunst and Morgan
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Eds is the biggest OL they’ll see all year. I don’t get why you’re giving the OL a pass but criticizing the DL, when they’ve played way better all yr.
 
Omar said:
Eds is the biggest OL they’ll see all year. I don’t get why you’re giving the OL a pass but criticizing the DL, when they’ve played way better all yr.
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The defense has played well this year, but you can't give up 298 yards on the ground. They got good players in Heitz and Ginn that could help, but they don't use them. Getting Hoernschemeyer back eventually will help.
 
Omar said:
Maybe, but the situation needs to be evaluated otherwise there would never be any personnel changes in season.
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I don't think you will see any changes based on last game. There are probably a handful of lineman in the state that can block Kilbane.
 
Unsung play by a few guys on Saturday that deserves notice. Our fullback Autenreib may have played the best game the varsity level in years. His blocks and receptions when it counted were impressive and to fight through an early set back he had was great for the panthers. James, moorman and priestly came up with some really great plays when we needed it. How about our center too who again doesn’t get recognition but handled the large front he faced without a bad snap.
Volks, dugan and cam also closed on plays quick and did their jobs.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
The defense has played well this year, but you can't give up 298 yards on the ground. They got good players in Heitz and Ginn that could help, but they don't use them. Getting Hoernschemeyer back eventually will help.
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They rotate them in. I do think Ginn would be better on the OL.
 
Was Reuter out for last game, or did they just decide not to play him? He could have helped get the run game going. Is it too late to see what he can do on defense if they are not going to play him on offense?
 
JElder said:
This is the best Elder D in years
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Yes, it is - and last year's was one of the worst. How did some of these kids not start/play more last year?

You can't convince me that most of these kids weren't better players, especially at DL and LB. Yes, I know they got better during the off-season, but it's a night and day difference.

What's the next class with all the hype that ends up doing nothing?
 
OnTheLine85 said:
You can't convince me that most of these kids weren't better players, especially at DL and LB. Yes, I know they got better during the off-season, but it's a night and day difference.
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Hulen, Freeman, McKenna on the dline all started last season and Heitz started/rotated also. All 4 are back this year.
Dugan and Hoernschemeyer started at LB last year.
Gutekunst started at S last year.

The 2 corners from last year are both playing college football. Nicholas Paff a senior LB last year had a really good year until getting hurt is playing college football. Schaerer(LB) and Georges(LB/DB) both seniors last year had solid seasons.

You have 6-8 players this year who saw significant time on defense last year. Getting that experience and a whole off season of getting bigger/faster/growing is a big reason why the defense has improved a lot.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
Yes, it is - and last year's was one of the worst. How did some of these kids not start/play more last year?

You can't convince me that most of these kids weren't better players, especially at DL and LB. Yes, I know they got better during the off-season, but it's a night and day difference.

What's the next class with all the hype that ends up doing nothing?
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The one senior I am surprised that did not get regular playing time last year was Voelkerding. I think he has been one of their best defensive players this year.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
What's the next class with all the hype that ends up doing nothing?
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That class did beat Moeller who made the state final 4. They finished 6-6 on an absolutely brutal schedule. St. X with all of their college commitments unfortunately had their number.

It must make you feel really good to rip on high school kids?
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
Nicholas Paff a senior LB last year had a really good year until getting hurt is playing college football. Schaerer(LB) and Georges(LB/DB) both seniors last year had solid seasons.
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I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I thought Elder's LB core last year was one of the most porous in recent memory. So many huge gains from opponents that started with the lack of quality LBs.

Gutenkunst has been a stud since day 1. Kid deserves more hype, but he was in the wrong class. Same with Voelkerding. The two other DBs were pretty good too. They couldn't make up for the lack of quality LB play.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
It must make you feel really good to rip on high school kids?
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I'm not ripping on the kids. I'm ripping on the people that severely over-inflated their talent because they were grade school heroes - mainly pboy.

Most sane people knew they were good players, but not near the hype machine they received.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
That class did beat Moeller who made the state final 4. They finished 6-6 on an absolutely brutal schedule. St. X with all of their college commitments unfortunately had their number.

It must make you feel really good to rip on high school kids?
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Didn't they give up like 100 points in that game?

Elder - 101
Moe - 100
 
OnTheLine85 said:
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I thought Elder's LB core last year was one of the most porous in recent memory. So many huge gains from opponents that started with the lack of quality LBs.

Gutenkunst has been a stud since day 1. The two other DBs were pretty good too. They couldn't make up for the lack of quality LB play.
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I forgot about the senior LB from last year Spinney. He was 1st team All GCL. The coaches pick all GCL. I will take their opinion over yours.

Let's breakdown the LBs since you said Elder lacked quality LB last year, but this year have quality LBs.

Spinney 1st team All GCL
Dugan Started last year. Returning starter this year.
Hoernschemeyer started last year. Returning starter this year.
Schaerer senior starter last year. You could make an argument Voelkerding should have rotated with him.

Remember Paff got hurt last year too. He was a 3 year varsity starter. Losing him at LB was a HUGE loss to the defense.
 
This year's LBs.
Hoernschemeyer(senior) - returning starter. Got hurt week 1. Luke Paff has filled in for him.
Dugan(junior) - returning starter. He has gotten bigger/faster since last year and better.
Arnold(sophomore) - played some Varsity last year as a freshman. He has struggled a little this year in 1st year as starter, that is expected for a sophomore. I don't think you can make an argument that he should have started over a senior.
Voelkerding(senior) - I think he has been their best LB this year with Dugan not far behind him. I think you can make an argument he should have played more last year, but he is not making a difference in any outcome against St. X.
 
I agree on Spinney. I thought he was the best of the bunch. But the Elder defense last year had to be one of the worst on record. You can start as many years as you want, if you give up a whole bunch of yards every year you're playing, that's certainly valid evidence regardless of what you just laid out. To put it simply, they just weren't a good defensive team.

I'd venture to guess they are way down on the list when it comes to points given up and yards given up. That's a way more telling story than individual accolades or years starting.
 
They also faced a brutal schedule and St. Xavier and Moeller were both loaded offensively. At one point, they were starting 3 sophomores on Varsity. That is usually not a good sign. They didn't have the senior size on the defensive line. Those underclassman on the dline are now a year older/bigger/experienced and doing a lot better than last year.

Last year's team struggled on the line and we know that's where games are won and lost.
 
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