We needed expanded playoffs for Covid with cancellations. Reduce it now.

eastisbest

Well-known member
there is no revenue generated, there is nothing but expenses covered by the taxpayers.

what do you not understand about that?

there IS no actual revenue generated. For Example:
Your blather didn't respond to my post in the least. What do you not understand about that?

Are you just one of the guys paid to be tools on here to try and generate posts? Please move on so I can enjoy interacting with the posters who are serous. You're an idiot. TY
 

BlueDevil2022

Active member
Your blather didn't respond to my post in the least. What do you not understand about that?

Are you just one of the guys paid to be tools on here to try and generate posts? Please move on so I can enjoy interacting with the posters who are serous. You're an idiot. TY
no high school football program actually generates revenue, just as NO high school extracurricular generates revenue

whats hard to understand about that?

ALL high school extracurriculars expenses are covered by taxpayers funds.

any gate simply partially defrays the expense for ALL extracurriculars
 

raising4daughters

Active member
and then there were none

zero percent of under 8 seeds survived round 4

I havent counted under # 4 seeds, I suppose I should

the OHSAA should be charged with child endangerment. or the Schools ADS one of the two.

Just imagine the number of injured kids on those 112 teams
So which 8 would you propose limiting the playoff berths to? Your same data set shows that Harbins are a poor gauge for slots 7 and 8 as more 10s beats 7s and more 9s beat 8s. I don't disagree with trimming back from 16, but Harbins have been proven to oick the best 4-6 but not best 8.
 

BlueDevil2022

Active member
So which 8 would you propose limiting the playoff berths to? Your same data set shows that Harbins are a poor gauge for slots 7 and 8 as more 10s beats 7s and more 9s beat 8s. I don't disagree with trimming back from 16, but Harbins have been proven to oick the best 4-6 but not best 8.
i don't know about whether harbins are a poor gauge or not.

doesn't matter 224 teams is child abuse because 112 have zero chance of winning 6 post season games

16 games is ridiculous.

Div 1 has all 1 seeds except Springfield #2 getting through


Div 2 is 2 # 1 a 3 and a 4
Div 3 has a 5 seed making it. the lowest seed to get through round 4
 
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Head Linesman

Well-known member
Here is the breakdown after all Regions are decided (Round 4 of 6)

Div I R1 -1 R2-2 R3-1 R4-1 100% 4 and above
Div 2 R5-1 R6-3 R7-1 R8-4 100% 4 and above
Div 3 R9-2 R10-1 R11-5 R12 - 3 75% 4 and above
Div 4 R13-6 R14-1 R15-2 R16-1 100% 4 and above
Div 5 R17-1 R18-1 R19-1 R20-1 100% #1 seeds
Div6 R21-1 R22-5(tie) R23-1 R24-1 75% #1
Div7 R25-1 R26-4 R27-1 R28-5 50% #1 100% above 8

100% of all regional winners above 8 seed
85% above 5
60% #1 seeds (17)
10.7% #2 seeds (3)
7.1% #3 seeds (2)
7.1% #4 seeds (2)
10.7% #5 seeds (3)
3.5% #6 seed (1)

Of Seeds below #4 : (4 teams)
Div4 R13 Jefferson Area faces Glenville (undefeated) and will almost certainly be mercy clocked
R11 #5 Bloom Carroll faces #3 Seed Tippecanoe which should be a tossup
R22 #5 seed Columbus Grove faces Marion Local should be a mercy clock
R28 #5 seed New Bremen faces Lima Central should be a tossup.

Conclusion: Harbins a very good predictor of winning region, 60% #1 seeds won, 86% 1-4 seeds won region

(#6 seed Jefferson Area received benefit of very questionable officiating in 4th quarter: (subconscious rooting for underdog ?) v Beloit West Branch whose D seemed to give up after the questionable spots.

2 #5 seeds have a chance to advance.

that would be 2 of 28 or 11%

Zero percent of the expansion 112 (below #8 seed) ever had a reasonable chance to win tournament and should not have been in tournament.
 

SportsFan79

Well-known member
Here is the breakdown after all Regions are decided (Round 4 of 6)

Div I R1 -1 R2-2 R3-1 R4-1 100% 4 and above
Div 2 R5-1 R6-3 R7-1 R8-4 100% 4 and above
Div 3 R9-2 R10-1 R11-5 R12 - 3 75% 4 and above
Div 4 R13-6 R14-1 R15-2 R16-1 100% 4 and above
Div 5 R17-1 R18-1 R19-1 R20-1 100% #1 seeds
Div6 R21-1 R22-5(tie) R23-1 R24-1 75% #1
Div7 R25-1 R26-4 R27-1 R28-5 50% #1 100% above 8

100% of all regional winners above 8 seed
85% above 5
60% #1 seeds (17)
10.7% #2 seeds (3)
7.1% #3 seeds (2)
7.1% #4 seeds (2)
10.7% #5 seeds (3)
3.5% #6 seed (1)

Of Seeds below #4 : (4 teams)
Div4 R13 Jefferson Area faces Glenville (undefeated) and will almost certainly be mercy clocked
R11 #5 Bloom Carroll faces #3 Seed Tippecanoe which should be a tossup
R22 #5 seed Columbus Grove faces Marion Local should be a mercy clock
R28 #5 seed New Bremen faces Lima Central should be a tossup.

Conclusion: Harbins a very good predictor of winning region, 60% #1 seeds won, 86% 1-4 seeds won region

(#6 seed Jefferson Area received benefit of very questionable officiating in 4th quarter: (subconscious rooting for underdog ?) v Beloit West Branch whose D seemed to give up after the questionable spots.

2 #5 seeds have a chance to advance.

that would be 2 of 28 or 11%

Zero percent of the expansion 112 (below #8 seed) ever had a reasonable chance to win tournament and should not have been in tournament.
West Branch played very little D all year… Hence the reason they onto basketball season now.
 

Head Linesman

Well-known member
West Branch played very little D all year… Hence the reason they onto basketball season now.
nothing wrong with that.

this thread is regarding the 224 team field for the post season football tournament which is completely unjustified.

there's nothing wrong with high school kids playing ten games and being done with it as it was for decades.

i know I was extremely happy after ten weeks and it was over with and we could get on with enjoying life without having to go to stinking football practice.
 

tom_hsfootball_fan

Well-known member
Following the Harbins used to be a lot of fun. Now it's just a waste of time.

For every week of playoffs over 4, they should require one additional week of school... all day math and science.
 

raising4daughters

Active member
Conclusion: Harbins a very good predictor of winning region, 60% #1 seeds won, 86% 1-4 seeds won region
Yes, I've agreed with you and @BlueDevil2022 on this point several times. Harbins ARE a good predictor of the Top 4 and are a logical way to go with good, proven predictor of winners. For us purists, it puts more emphasis on the regular season, too. For those whose biggest concern is about player health, it's also a good solution.

We seem to live in a playoff happy era even in pro sports. Yes, it's revenue driven. I hate the playoff expansion in MLB.

I guess the only counter is what I personally saw with my youngest daughter's school, Padua. They had a nice run through the playoffs beating 3 teams with better records and better seeds but ultimately getting crushed (that no one saw coming) by the #1 seed. With 4 or 8 in the playoffs, that run never happens. Safer? Yes. Would the boys prefer the 3 additional wins and 1 loss to safety? I doubt it.
 

PGEMF

Well-known member
Your blather didn't respond to my post in the least. What do you not understand about that?

Are you just one of the guys paid to be tools on here to try and generate posts? Please move on so I can enjoy interacting with the posters who are serous. You're an idiot. TY

Just put him on ignore. I did.
 

Head Linesman

Well-known member
Yes, I've agreed with you and @BlueDevil2022 on this point several times. Harbins ARE a good predictor of the Top 4 and are a logical way to go with good, proven predictor of winners. For us purists, it puts more emphasis on the regular season, too. For those whose biggest concern is about player health, it's also a good solution.

We seem to live in a playoff happy era even in pro sports. Yes, it's revenue driven. I hate the playoff expansion in MLB.

I guess the only counter is what I personally saw with my youngest daughter's school, Padua. They had a nice run through the playoffs beating 3 teams with better records and better seeds but ultimately getting crushed (that no one saw coming) by the #1 seed. With 4 or 8 in the playoffs, that run never happens. Safer? Yes. Would the boys prefer the 3 additional wins and 1 loss to safety? I doubt it.

Thank you for your understanding and thoughtful response, raising4.

It all boils down to the actual purpose of extracurriculars as a function of education. In my mind, interscholastic competitions are being exploited, and the children themselves are being exploited (by persons who have absolutely no interest in the long term health and well being) for short term monetary gain, it's just that simple.

if education was actually the purpose then this model of pretend/faux professional teams fielded by each school for the purpose of interscholastic competition would not even exist because the vast majority of students at each school are excluded from participation in the competitions. If it was about physical education, it would make it possible for EVERY student to participate equally in a program, if competition is a vital educational strategy, ALL students should have equal access to the benefits of competition, not just a "pretending to be professional athletes" squad, excluding the vast majority.

I believe the idea that anything is revenue driven is a canard, a false premise from the educational institutional point of view: the schools are getting almost none of the revenues generated by media companies. well not almost none. precisely none.

there is no evidence that the 224 field post season tournament generates any real revenue for any participating school, at $10 a head for admission. Everybody seems to think its all about revenue to somebody, but nobody can tell me who, except that I know who does NOT benefit from any revenue generated, and that is the kid who is out there on the field and on the practice field, never even getting into a game, being exploited.

thats whats so hard to get people to understand. there IS no REAL revenue being generated, revenue meaning income exceeding expenses such as in the business world. school districts don't even have the capacity to CALCULATE all expenses of any extracurricular because they aren't set up that way with P/L ledgers tracking expenses to any one activity.

THIS is as much detail as you or I can get. I can't even GET that much information about Padua Franciscan, it being a PRIVATE school, it does not submit itself to State of Ohio Audits.

1668956788887.png
In fact, in State of Ohio public school system audits the word "athletic" as in athletic department: DOES NOT OCCUR in the entire document.

wrap your head around THAT one.
 

Head Linesman

Well-known member
Following the Harbins used to be a lot of fun. Now it's just a waste of time.

For every week of playoffs over 4, they should require one additional week of school... all day math and science.
you hit on what it's supposed to be ALL ABOUT.

its about HAVING FUN. CHEAP ENTERTAINMENT

that's ALL it IS. RIGHT?
 

Head Linesman

Well-known member
Yes, I've agreed with you and @BlueDevil2022 on this point several times. Harbins ARE a good predictor of the Top 4 and are a logical way to go with good, proven predictor of winners. For us purists, it puts more emphasis on the regular season, too. For those whose biggest concern is about player health, it's also a good solution.

We seem to live in a playoff happy era even in pro sports. Yes, it's revenue driven. I hate the playoff expansion in MLB.

I guess the only counter is what I personally saw with my youngest daughter's school, Padua. They had a nice run through the playoffs beating 3 teams with better records and better seeds but ultimately getting crushed (that no one saw coming) by the #1 seed. With 4 or 8 in the playoffs, that run never happens. Safer? Yes. Would the boys prefer the 3 additional wins and 1 loss to safety? I doubt it.

what did they learn by playing 4 more games that they would not have learned playing ten games and hanging up the pads?

nothing is the answer. and what did they get that a team that went 0-10 got?

same answer. not a damn thing. except 4 more weeks of football practice and mercy clocked one last time.
 

Hot_Takes

Active member
no high school football program actually generates revenue, just as NO high school extracurricular generates revenue

whats hard to understand about that?

ALL high school extracurriculars expenses are covered by taxpayers funds.

any gate simply partially defrays the expense for ALL extracurriculars
No high school generates revenue. Whether they play an extra week of football playoffs or not is irrelevant.
 

Head Linesman

Well-known member
No high school generates revenue. Whether they play an extra week of football playoffs or not is irrelevant.

That is correct. None of the revenue generated by media selling advertising is shared with the kids providing the cheap entertainment.

That is the part that is relevant. The winners or losers are what is irrelevant.

We are making progress here. Go over and post what you just posted to the idiots who think their football program generates revenue and that winning football games is relevant and their whole identity is wrapped up in whether or not their kids play an extra week of football playoffs.

they are found here: http://yappi.com/forum/index.php?th...hbishop-hoban-13-1.356061/page-7#post-8644927
 
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Hot_Takes

Active member
That is correct. None of the revenue generated by media selling advertising is shared with the kids providing the cheap entertainment.

That is the part that is relevant. The winners or losers are what is irrelevant.

We are making progress here. Go over and post what you just posted to the idiots who think their football program generates revenue and that winning football games is relevant and their whole identity is wrapped up in whether or not their kids play an extra week of football playoffs.

they are found here: http://yappi.com/forum/index.php?th...hbishop-hoban-13-1.356061/page-7#post-8644927
You misundestand all schools are taxpayer funded athletics or education they do not generate revenue in any way shape or form. How they choose to spend funds is up to each district.
 

BlueDevil2022

Active member
You misundestand all schools are taxpayer funded athletics or education they do not generate revenue in any way shape or form. How they choose to spend funds is up to each district.
i misunderstand nothing.

It is an article of the faith in Massillon that the football program generates revenue that pays for all the other extracurriculars, having been set forth in 1951 along with other falsehoods. (that the father of every baby boy born in the Massillon City Hospital is awarded a full size leather football when he leaves the hospital)

here is the "revenue" falsehood being propagated:


it wasn't true in 1951 and isn't true today but when a school levy is up for renewal the push poll robo calls repeat the falsehood even today.

those people swear it's true.

go over and ask them.

the one true statement in that newsreel is made right at the beginning, that the town is a cult.
 
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serpico

Well-known member
i misunderstand nothing.

It is an article of the faith in Massillon that the football program generates revenue that pays for all the other extracurriculars, having been set forth in 1951 along with other falsehoods. (that the father of every baby boy born in the Massillon City Hospital is awarded a full size leather football when he leaves the hospital)

here is the "revenue" falsehood being propagated:


it wasn't true in 1951 and isn't true today but when a school levy is up for renewal the push poll robo calls repeat the falsehood even today.

those people swear it's true.

go over and ask them.

the one true statement in that newsreel is made right at the beginning, that the town is a cult.
First off, you and @Head Linesman should have a meet up or something. You guys seem to think exactly alike 🤔

Secondly, high school sports absolutely produce revenue if they sell even one ticket. Whether or not they produce enough to cover expenses is another matter.
 

BlueDevil2022

Active member
First off, you and @Head Linesman should have a meet up or something. You guys seem to think exactly alike 🤔

Secondly, high school sports absolutely produce revenue if they sell even one ticket. Whether or not they produce enough to cover expenses is another matter.
dude you have a first grade understanding of real or actual revenue
 

BleedPurple13

Active member
First off, you and @Head Linesman should have a meet up or something. You guys seem to think exactly alike 🤔

Secondly, high school sports absolutely produce revenue if they sell even one ticket. Whether or not they produce enough to cover expenses is another matter.
Odd they respond for each other as well.

“Both” apparently don’t have an understanding of revenue vs profit.
 
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