Trial of the Century...

What verdict will the jury return:

  • Guilty: Second-degree murder

    Votes: 8 16.3%
  • Guilty: Third-degree murder

    Votes: 5 10.2%
  • Guilty: Second-degree manslaughter

    Votes: 25 51.0%
  • Not Guilty: All Charges

    Votes: 4 8.2%
  • Hung Jury

    Votes: 7 14.3%

  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .

Happier

Well-known member
Showed up at Cup Foods high so,
1. Used drugs earlier in the day.
2. Drove under the influence.
3. Tried to pass a counterfeit bill.
4. Didnt leave the scene after being caught.

5. Consorted with a drug dealer and possibly a second drug dealer (at least a user) in his car.
6. Didnt leave scene after store came out first time.
7. Didnt leave scene 2nd time store came out.
8. Wasnt fully compliant when police arrived on scene.
9. Was argumentative after being taken onto custody.
10. At some point put 2 more meth/fentanyl tablets in his mouth. (these were found by BCA investigators the next day in the vehicle they were trying to get him onto with Floyd's DNA from his saliva on them)
11. Did not take the advice of the bystander who told him to comply because "you can't win."
12. Did not comply and get into car.
13. Fought and resisted officers who were trying to transport him.
14. Continued to resist for multiple minutes (up to 5).

OK. Not 18. An unlucky 14.

Passing a counterfeit bill is basically J-walking.
You have did not comply 7 times...he was handcuffed on ground for 9+ minutes. 4 1/2 non-responsive.

None of the above allows a police officer to use deadly force...so ....
 

Gardens35

Well-known member
I like this Inspector Katie Blackwell so far. Quick and to the point.


Just testified that she's known Officer Chauvin for 20 years.
 

winbypin

Well-known member
Passing a counterfeit bill is basically J-walking.
You have did not comply 7 times...he was handcuffed on ground for 9+ minutes. 4 1/2 non-responsive.

None of the above allows a police officer to use deadly force...so ....
Passing a single counterfeit bill unknowingly might be basically "jay walking"....otherwise it could be much worse of a crime.
 

Happier

Well-known member
Passing a single counterfeit bill unknowingly might be basically "jay walking"....otherwise it could be much worse of a crime.

Well he already established he was in an altered state...even if a felony it is not one that requires lethal force.
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
Passing a counterfeit bill is basically J-walking.
You have did not comply 7 times...he was handcuffed on ground for 9+ minutes. 4 1/2 non-responsive.

None of the above allows a police officer to use deadly force...so ....
Passing a fake bill is like jaywalking?

That's possibly the most uninformed, idiotic, water headed statements I've ever seen here.
 

IVCguy

Well-known member
Passing a counterfeit bill is basically J-walking.
You have did not comply 7 times...he was handcuffed on ground for 9+ minutes. 4 1/2 non-responsive.

None of the above allows a police officer to use deadly force...so ....
Oh my.

This is why I am grumpy. A wise book tells me to not entertain fools, but I find myself doing it a lot.

Here is the truth that you are avoiding. Floyd gets up on May 25, 2020 and doesnt do drugs. Or if he does, he doesnt drive to Cup Foods. Or if he does, he doesnt use a counterfeit bill. Or if he does, he beats cheeks. Or if he doesnt, he leaves after the first visit to his car by the clerk. He doesnt consort with drug users/dealers. But if he does, he leaves after the 2nd visit to his car by store personell. When police arrive, he doesnt put additional drugs in his mouth to hide them. But if does do that, however he complies at every opportunity after that and gets into the car peacefully.

If he does even just the last part, what are the chances he ends up prone with 3 officers on top of him and ends up dying potentially as a result of the restraint?

I will help you. The odds are almost zero.

It's a logical and practical argument, not necessarily a legal argument. But the obvious truth of it stands.
 
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Happier

Well-known member
"it is against our department policies"
"it is not part of our policy, our training or our values and ethics"
"It is not what we train"
"he did not implement a proper use of force"
"he did not provide care"

The Chief of Police said Chauvin violated department policies. He believes Chauvin used excessive force.
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
"it is against our department policies"
"it is not part of our policy, our training or our values and ethics"
"It is not what we train"
"he did not implement a proper use of force"
"he did not provide care"

The Chief of Police said Chauvin violated department policies. He believes Chauvin used excessive force.
CYA, baby, CYA!
 

IVCguy

Well-known member
"it is against our department policies"
"it is not part of our policy, our training or our values and ethics"
"It is not what we train"
"he did not implement a proper use of force"
"he did not provide care"

The Chief of Police said Chauvin violated department policies. He believes Chauvin used excessive force.
That is the chief's position. However, you must understand that he is not unbiased. He is a political animal in a charged political environment. There is no advantage to him to help Chauvin. His advantages lie in joining the majority views of the mayor, city council, BLM, etc. Chauvin gave him and his dept a black eye and a gigantic headache, so he is motivated to put significant distance between himself, the MPD, and Chauvin. Doesn't mean that he isn't being completely honest in his testimony. It does mean that he is not a neutral witness with no agenda - he has a definite agenda, and his testimony has to be assessed in that light.

Trials are about assigning blame. The prosecution wants to blame Chauvin for Floyd's death. The defense will want to blame Floyd and circumstances outside of Chauvin's control for Floyd's death.

The 18, or rather, 14 bad decisions Floyd made is what I have always called the "If Not For Game". It's how we logically assign blame and degree of blame. Parents of teens who want to teach responsibility should be familiar with it because teens usually have tons of excuses for ending up hurt, doing damage, or being in trouble. But a good parent will brush away those excuses and focus on the decisions THEY made that put them in the situation they are making excuses for. So you tell your little criminal, "It doesn't matter what your friends did or what serendipity befell you, you put yourself in the position for this to happen when you chose to be there and then chose to do/not do what you did/did not do."

If not for Floyd's 14 decisions, he is not dead. If not for Chauvin's several decisions, Floyd is not dead. The trial is really about whose decisions are determined to be the most responsible.
 

Gardens35

Well-known member
That is the chief's position. However, you must understand that he is not unbiased. He is a political animal in a charged political environment. There is no advantage to him to help Chauvin. His advantages lie in joining the majority views of the mayor, city council, BLM, etc. Chauvin gave him and his dept a black eye and a gigantic headache, so he is motivated to put significant distance between himself, the MPD, and Chauvin. Doesn't mean that he isn't being completely honest in his testimony. It does mean that he is not a neutral witness with no agenda - he has a definite agenda, and his testimony has to be assessed in that light.

Trials are about assigning blame. The prosecution wants to blame Chauvin for Floyd's death. The defense will want to blame Floyd and circumstances outside of Chauvin's control for Floyd's death.

The 18, or rather, 14 bad decisions Floyd made is what I have always called the "If Not For Game". It's how we logically assign blame and degree of blame. Parents of teens who want to teach responsibility should be familiar with it because teens usually have tons of excuses for ending up hurt, doing damage, or being in trouble. But a good parent will brush away those excuses and focus on the decisions THEY made that put them in the situation they are making excuses for. So you tell your little criminal, "It doesn't matter what your friends did or what serendipity befell you, you put yourself in the position for this to happen when you chose to be there and then chose to do/not do what you did/did not do."

If not for Floyd's 14 decisions, he is not dead. If not for Chauvin's several decisions, Floyd is not dead. The trial is really about whose decisions are determined to be the most responsible.

Yea, he's the guy that signed the termination letters.
 

NewOldBlood

Well-known member
Oh my.

This is why I am grumpy. A wise book tells me to not entertain fools, but I find myself doing it a lot.

Here is the truth that you are avoiding. Floyd gets up on May 25, 2020 and doesnt do drugs. Or if he does, he doesnt drive to Cup Foods. Or if he does, he doesnt use a counterfeit bill. Or if he does, he beats cheeks. Or if he doesnt, he leaves after the first visit to his car by the clerk. He doesnt consort with drug users/dealers. But if he does, he leaves after the 2nd visit to his car by store personell. When police arrive, he doesnt put additional drugs in his mouth to hide them. But if does do that, however he complies at every opportunity after that and gets into the car peacefully.

If he does even just the last part, what are the chances he ends up prone with 3 officers on top of him and ends up dying potentially as a result of the restraint?

I will help you. The odds are almost zero.

It's a logical and practical argument, not necessarily a legal argument. But the obvious truth of it stands.
You are 100% correct, but that doesn't mean that Chauvin didn't cause his death. There are many choices Floyd could have made that would allow him to still be alive today. There are also choices that Chauvin could have made that would allow Floyd to be alive today. Floyd was a criminal. I find it bothersome that he has been held up as some sort of idol by certain segments of society. I also find it bothersome that anybody who watched that video thinks that Chauvin didn't do anything wrong. I know a few cops. They all think Chauvin should go to jail for what he did.
 

my2sense

Well-known member
Given all the video evidence - was a trial really necessary? Or just necessary to keep promoting certain agendas and keep the woke fires burning?
 

IVCguy

Well-known member
You are 100% correct, but that doesn't mean that Chauvin didn't cause his death. There are many choices Floyd could have made that would allow him to still be alive today. There are also choices that Chauvin could have made that would allow Floyd to be alive today. Floyd was a criminal. I find it bothersome that he has been held up as some sort of idol by certain segments of society. I also find it bothersome that anybody who watched that video thinks that Chauvin didn't do anything wrong. I know a few cops. They all think Chauvin should go to jail for what he did.
I ain't arguing against any of that. I believe I have made all of those same points in previous posts on this thread.

I think there is a difference in degree of expectations and standards between Floyd and Chauvin. Floyd was an individual under the influence. Not an excuse, but it becomes part of what Chauvin had to deal with as a professional.

Also as a professional LEO, once the cuffs are on, the standard becomes "in your custody means in your care." Point being that if this were just citizens involved - 3 guys trying to control Floyd - those 3 would not have the additional responsibility of care that a LEO does. I see that professional responsibility as a major impediment to Chauvin walking out of that court not guilty of anything.

I think Chauvin is fine with everything he did in pulling Floyd out of the vehicle, placing him prone, and the first 5 min of restraint. His problem starts at some point in the last 4 1/2 min when the man was not speaking, not resisting, unconscious, and eventually not breathing. He was in his custody and in his care. It appears his care was negligent.
 

Yorktown

Well-known member
Passing a counterfeit bill is basically J-walking.
You have did not comply 7 times...he was handcuffed on ground for 9+ minutes. 4 1/2 non-responsive.

None of the above allows a police officer to use deadly force...so ....

Again Happy shows his hand.
Happy is either a Troll who just loves to rift the “echo chamber”
Or
Happy is really this delusional and unstable.

A troll is a troll and I laugh at pretty much all troll posts.

The other is just plain sad.. seek help if the latter is true Happy.
 
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