Three teams drop out to avoid playing Marion Local in playoffs…

McMurphy said:
I could be wrong, but one year around 2020 they experimented with 12 I thought
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Could be idk but I thought that was the year they let anybody who wanted to play in and then went to 16 year after. I really don't think there was any bye weeks ever in the playoffs. 2020 my Tigers were a top seeded team and went to the finals and we didn't have no bye
 
McMurphy said:
Yes, but the top 4, had the byes. I believe the Covid year was the 12 team trial
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In the Covid year everybody qualified, that is why there were byes. 12 teams per region was discussed but it was never implemented in the playoffs. As you stated though it is impossible to have 12 teams/region qualify without byes. To avoid byes the number of teams/region must be a power of 2 (2, 4, 8, 16, etc) not just divisible by 2.

darbydavidsonfan said:
I don’t remember 12 teams. I’m pretty sure it went from 8 to 16 in 2020.
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With the exception of D1 from 2013-2015 when OHSAA went to only two regions you are correct sir. 16 teams per region qualified in D1 in those 3 seasons while everybody else remained at 8. D1 went back to 4 regions and 8 teams/region until 2021 when OHSAA expanded to the current 16/region.
 
YTOWN said:
In the Covid year everybody qualified, that is why there were byes. 12 teams per region was discussed but it was never implemented in the playoffs. As you stated though it is impossible to have 12 teams/region qualify without byes. To avoid byes the number of teams/region must be a power of 2 (2, 4, 8, 16, etc) not just divisible by 2.



With the exception of D1 from 2013-2015 when OHSAA went to only two regions you are correct sir. 16 teams per region qualified in D1 in those 3 seasons while everybody else remained at 8. D1 went back to 4 regions and 8 teams/region until 2021 when OHSAA expanded to the current 16/region.
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2020 was the COVID year and short regular season schedule. There were no bye weeks. My team played 6 playoff games that year
 
TigerBeast78 said:
2020 was the COVID year and short regular season schedule. There were no bye weeks. My team played 6 playoff games that year
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I meant in the playoffs. There were bye weeks for several teams in the 1st round of the playoffs, other than D1 because they only had 16 teams/region in D1.
 
YTOWN said:
I meant in the playoffs. There were bye weeks for several teams in the 1st round of the playoffs, other than D1 because they only had 16 teams/region in D1.
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I'm talking D2 and yes your right I looked and it said bye week but we still played 6 playoff games that year. Must of been more than 6 rounds of playoffs that year
 
TigerBeast78 said:
I'm talking D2 and yes your right I looked and it said bye week but we still played 6 playoff games that year. Must of been more than 6 rounds of playoffs that year
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Other than D1 there were more than 6 rounds. There were also some "byes" in later rounds due to one of the teams having Covid-19 and not being allowed to continue. In those cases the other team advanced without playing a game. I'm assuming from your avatar that you are from Massillon. The Tigers had a bye in round one as did Hoban who Massillon played in the finals.
 
YTOWN said:
Other than D1 there were more than 6 rounds. There were also some "byes" in later rounds due to one of the teams having Covid-19 and not being allowed to continue. In those cases the other team advanced without playing a game. I'm assuming from your avatar that you are from Massillon. The Tigers had a bye in round one as did Hoban who Massillon played in the finals.
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Yes I went back and looked at the schedule that's why I said must of been more than 6 rounds cause it did say bye week before our first game. Thanks for clearing it up.
 
TigerBeast78 said:
Could be idk but I thought that was the year they let anybody who wanted to play in and then went to 16 year after. I really don't think there was any bye weeks ever in the playoffs. 2020 my Tigers were a top seeded team and went to the finals and we didn't have no bye
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You are right. With the discussion of going to 12, probably just confused me into thinking they experimented with it. But yes I do remember now the Covid year they let everyone in because it was such a a shortened regular season schedule for everyone.
 
McMurphy said:
You are right. With the discussion of going to 12, probably just confused me into thinking they experimented with it. But yes I do remember now the Covid year they let everyone in because it was such a a shortened regular season schedule for everyone.
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Yep. I don't know where my brain was at thinking we use to have 12 for years definitely impossible without bye weeks. I just can't believe the OHSAA doubled the number of teams from 8 to 16 thats ridiculous.
 
while I'm reluctant to get too into the weeds of "does ML belong in 6 or 7"...
14Red said:
Marion Local('s)... enrollment isn't larger than their peers
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this is just not true.

ML's EMIS for boys in grades 9-11 is 107. The highest EMIS in D7 is 108. There are several other schools who are at EMIS 107 along with ML, sure.

There's also a plethora of D7 schools whose EMIS is in the 60's and below.

Presume that the ratio difference of boys also extends to the class that isn't factored into the EMIS. If ML has ~32 boys per class (107/3 minus remainder) and a school, say Ridgemont (EMIS 62) by comparison has ~21 boys per class... 32 x4 = 128 boys in the school ; 21 x4 = 84 boys in the school. 84/128 = 65%; which means ML has 35% more boys than the given run-of-the-mill D7 rural public.

Even if you subtract out the low-end public school enrollment outliers in D7 -- Vanlue, Beallsville and Sciotoville, all of which are south of 40(!) EMIS -- you still have a swath of schools in the 50's and 60's on boys enrollment. Those schools go through challenges on the annual, regardless of their previous accolades. Just ask the Polar Bears of Hardin Northern: state champs in 04, and nine years later there was a hiatus on football in Dola.

Again, not here to say one way or the other ML 'fits' in D7, nor confer that their success is a product of raw enrollment power. Just that, when you mentioned earlier "the lowest common denominator" -- there's a lot of have's, and a lot of have not's, in D7. And where those have not's are, frankly, it's because of population decline spanning years. A lot of those public school communities and their sponsoring villages/townships outside of MAC territory are shriveling at a break-neck pace, and will continue to. See, below.

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TigerBeast78 said:
Yep. I don't know where my brain was at thinking we use to have 12 for years definitely impossible without bye weeks. I just can't believe the OHSAA doubled the number of teams from 8 to 16 thats ridiculous.
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The only way to up to more teams, without the byes though
 
The Dock said:
while I'm reluctant to get too into the weeds of "does ML belong in 6 or 7"...

this is just not true.

ML's EMIS for boys in grades 9-11 is 107. The highest EMIS in D7 is 108. There are several other schools who are at EMIS 107 along with ML, sure.

There's also a plethora of D7 schools whose EMIS is in the 60's and below.

Presume that the ratio difference of boys also extends to the class that isn't factored into the EMIS. If ML has ~32 boys per class (107/3 minus remainder) and a school, say Ridgemont (EMIS 62) by comparison has ~21 boys per class... 32 x4 = 128 boys in the school ; 21 x4 = 84 boys in the school. 84/128 = 65%; which means ML has 35% more boys than the given run-of-the-mill D7 rural public.

Even if you subtract out the low-end public school enrollment outliers in D7 -- Vanlue, Beallsville and Sciotoville, all of which are south of 40(!) EMIS -- you still have a swath of schools in the 50's and 60's on boys enrollment. Those schools go through challenges on the annual, regardless of their previous accolades. Just ask the Polar Bears of Hardin Northern: state champs in 04, and nine years later there was a hiatus on football in Dola.

Again, not here to say one way or the other ML 'fits' in D7, nor confer that their success is a product of raw enrollment power. Just that, when you mentioned earlier "the lowest common denominator" -- there's a lot of have's, and a lot of have not's, in D7. And where those have not's are, frankly, it's because of population decline spanning years. A lot of those public school communities and their sponsoring villages/townships outside of MAC territory are shriveling at a break-neck pace, and will continue to. See, below.

View attachment 68001
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I'm honestly surprised that the state of OH projects Mercer County to have a declining population. We're one of the few counties along with the ones that comprise Columbus that have had consistent population growth.

With that said, yes for D7 they have more but when they are in D6 they have a lot less and still run the table so I would argue it evens out since they're on the border of the divisions.
 
State2013-1 said:
I'm honestly surprised that the state of OH projects Mercer County to have a declining population. We're one of the few counties along with the ones that comprise Columbus that have had consistent population growth.
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yeah tbh that one did strike me as a little odd, unless they're thinking either Celina itself goes through population decline in the next ~25 years, or that Celina's population plateaus along with the aging population in Mercer County being higher than the anticipated amount of ML + FR + CW + [whoever else I'm forgetting] alumni in the coming years staying home/returning home.
 
The Dock said:
while I'm reluctant to get too into the weeds of "does ML belong in 6 or 7"...

this is just not true.

ML's EMIS for boys in grades 9-11 is 107. The highest EMIS in D7 is 108. There are several other schools who are at EMIS 107 along with ML, sure.

There's also a plethora of D7 schools whose EMIS is in the 60's and below.

Presume that the ratio difference of boys also extends to the class that isn't factored into the EMIS. If ML has ~32 boys per class (107/3 minus remainder) and a school, say Ridgemont (EMIS 62) by comparison has ~21 boys per class... 32 x4 = 128 boys in the school ; 21 x4 = 84 boys in the school. 84/128 = 65%; which means ML has 35% more boys than the given run-of-the-mill D7 rural public.

Even if you subtract out the low-end public school enrollment outliers in D7 -- Vanlue, Beallsville and Sciotoville, all of which are south of 40(!) EMIS -- you still have a swath of schools in the 50's and 60's on boys enrollment. Those schools go through challenges on the annual, regardless of their previous accolades. Just ask the Polar Bears of Hardin Northern: state champs in 04, and nine years later there was a hiatus on football in Dola.

Again, not here to say one way or the other ML 'fits' in D7, nor confer that their success is a product of raw enrollment power. Just that, when you mentioned earlier "the lowest common denominator" -- there's a lot of have's, and a lot of have not's, in D7. And where those have not's are, frankly, it's because of population decline spanning years. A lot of those public school communities and their sponsoring villages/townships outside of MAC territory are shriveling at a break-neck pace, and will continue to. See, below.

View attachment 68001
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So are you advocating for MORE divisions??? The enrollment is simply a general way to slice up the pie. We all know there are D6,D5 and even D4 teams that ML would wipe all over the field. But that doesn't mean we just arbitrarily just move teams because they are great.
 
ML runs the table I think we can all agree on that. And I do apologize for out of comments. But this is what this forum is for. I appreciate all of you guys opinions. Thats what makes this fun. Its hard to fathom that this football season is pretty much over. I guess we'll talk the same Sh($ come basketball season.
 
14Red said:
So are you advocating for MORE divisions???
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not necessarily advocating for more divisions.

@Gamma Gobbler wisely pointed out the idea of how the seventh division created in 2013 (which was the reconstituted Division 1) could also apply to D7 (paraphrasing his words.) In that, you don't have the ~same amount of schools in D7 that you do 6, 5, 4... just like how Division 1 doesn't have nearly as many schools in it as the other six divisions do.

that's where I'm at, mostly. Just like how D1 only has the ~72 largest schools in the classification, you could in theory do the same for D7.
 
Simkon your a good guy. Your passion is real and I wish you guys the best of luck in the future. Hey pal remember the MVC days? Other than the Steel Valley I think were the toughest conference. I remember riding into Campbell and our buses getting hit by bricks. Lol. To Me thats the original Pit.
 
The Dock said:
yeah tbh that one did strike me as a little odd, unless they're thinking either Celina itself goes through population decline in the next ~25 years, or that Celina's population plateaus along with the aging population in Mercer County being higher than the anticipated amount of ML + FR + CW + [whoever else I'm forgetting] alumni in the coming years staying home/returning home.
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The housing situation here is bad. No one can find anything and I think that is actually hindering our population growth. I know of a few people who would like to move home but can't because there's no where to live. I'm not sure what's going on in the other communities but ML has to build a new school because our current one is too small for the projected incoming classes. The only caveat is that ML's school district is actually in 3 different counties so maybe it isnt a good basis. I can't imagine the other towns are having a downfall.
 
The Dock said:
not necessarily advocating for more divisions.

@Gamma Gobbler wisely pointed out the idea of how the seventh division created in 2013 (which was the reconstituted Division 1) could also apply to D7 (paraphrasing his words.) In that, you don't have the ~same amount of schools in D7 that you do 6, 5, 4... just like how Division 1 doesn't have nearly as many schools in it as the other six divisions do.

that's where I'm at, mostly. Just like how D1 only has the ~72 largest schools in the classification, you could in theory do the same for D7.
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If reducing the number of divisions isn’t going to happen, I would love to see D7 trimmed like D1 was.
 
McMurphy said:
Yes, I realize the direction they are going, but it is just opinions and talk on here. Not necessarily complaining
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Oh I know I wasn't judging. I'm just saying I know how people feel about 16 teams making it ,and it just isn't going to get any better
 
The Dock said:
while I'm reluctant to get too into the weeds of "does ML belong in 6 or 7"...

this is just not true.

ML's EMIS for boys in grades 9-11 is 107. The highest EMIS in D7 is 108. There are several other schools who are at EMIS 107 along with ML, sure.

There's also a plethora of D7 schools whose EMIS is in the 60's and below.

Presume that the ratio difference of boys also extends to the class that isn't factored into the EMIS. If ML has ~32 boys per class (107/3 minus remainder) and a school, say Ridgemont (EMIS 62) by comparison has ~21 boys per class... 32 x4 = 128 boys in the school ; 21 x4 = 84 boys in the school. 84/128 = 65%; which means ML has 35% more boys than the given run-of-the-mill D7 rural public.

Even if you subtract out the low-end public school enrollment outliers in D7 -- Vanlue, Beallsville and Sciotoville, all of which are south of 40(!) EMIS -- you still have a swath of schools in the 50's and 60's on boys enrollment. Those schools go through challenges on the annual, regardless of their previous accolades. Just ask the Polar Bears of Hardin Northern: state champs in 04, and nine years later there was a hiatus on football in Dola.

Again, not here to say one way or the other ML 'fits' in D7, nor confer that their success is a product of raw enrollment power. Just that, when you mentioned earlier "the lowest common denominator" -- there's a lot of have's, and a lot of have not's, in D7. And where those have not's are, frankly, it's because of population decline spanning years. A lot of those public school communities and their sponsoring villages/townships outside of MAC territory are shriveling at a break-neck pace, and will continue to. See, below.
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Interesting. Thanks. Bears repeating an earlier post but the idea that CB forced ML down to D7 is a travesty. But, these are the kind of unintended consequences that can happen when you try to manufacture fairness. Same can be said for weak programs that get bumped up over some kids who are not any good and clearly for non-football reasons.
 
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