The Official 2024 Reds season thread

[AEW Champion]

This thread is pretty amusing because there are a select few who only seem to come on here when the Reds fall apart and they gloat? Of course they say they have checked out and don't pay attention, but they always seem to pop in after the team loses???

The weekend notwithstanding, here is some points to still consider moving forward:

• the development of this team continues, Elly, Steer, Marte, Friedl, Abbott, Lodolo, guys we are moving forward with need to continue to get at bats and starts
• IF Matt McLain can play, he NEEDS to play. Any time he gets this year will help his development.
• This franchise still has the building blocks in place. Next season, with the guys mentioned above and Greene, you'll have a healthy McLain, CES, and any other additions they can get. My guess sometime in '25 you'll see Rhell Lowder.
• This team is still on the right track.

I’m not sure whether you’re referring to me, but I do tend to post more often after losses because that’s usually when mind-boggling stuff that’s post-worthy occurs.

I guess I could come on here daily and recap each game, including wins, but that tends to not generate much discussion since there’s only so much to say about “Steer had a nice night” or “Espinal’s been hot for awhile.”

The building blocks are still here, but if Greene is injured and the Reds bungle it like they do with many injuries, that could put a severe blow into the hopes of the 2025 Reds. For me, if there’s even a hint of an elbow injury, shut him down and let him rest and heal for next season. Don’t run him back out there after 15 days to tempt fate.

 

[D4fan]

I’m not sure whether you’re referring to me, but I do tend to post more often after losses because that’s usually when mind-boggling stuff that’s post-worthy occurs.

I guess I could come on here daily and recap each game, including wins, but that tends to not generate much discussion since there’s only so much to say about “Steer had a nice night” or “Espinal’s been hot for awhile.”

The building blocks are still here, but if Greene is injured and the Reds bungle it like they do with many injuries, that could put a severe blow into the hopes of the 2025 Reds. For me, if there’s even a hint of an elbow injury, shut him down and let him rest and heal for next season. Don’t run him back out there after 15 days to tempt fate.

My real feelings are mostly as you laid out. Sometimes I get frustrated with ownership of this team but honestly until this season, I still supported Bell. I would still fully support him, just want him to change from current to former in his manager title. So yes, my quip about Bell getting the kids "ready" for next year was sarcastically stated.

I also enjoy the challenge of trying to remain positive in the face of adversity. Yes, anyone who analyzes this team knew that three game sweep was just another false tremor that they were coming alive. Too many fielding errors, base running blunders, inability to hit. This team has had decent pitching that appears out of gas, and they are not fundamental enough to win any significant percentage of games.

In honor of the great Tracy Jones, "fire Dusty (David)".

 

[wolves82]

So it was a 28-3 total for the weekend. Ooooof.

Visiting family in the Pittsburgh area next weekend and about a month ago we all decided to go to the Saturday Pirates/Reds game. Both teams appeared to have a chance at that point. Now it is just the annual battle to stay out of the cellar. Oh well, it is a really nice ballpark and at least it is a fireworks night.

 

[14Red]

What do any at bats that occur when there is zero pressure to produce matter? Please answer that for me? September baseball for teams out of contention is no better than the Arizona Fall league

Oh my. Outside of Elly and Steer, I'd say most of these guys are playing for their jobs. And if the Reds decide to move Elly to centerfield, then Friedl will be a corner outfielder or looking for work. These guys have to prove themselves every day. These are uber competitive people, they don't need "pressure" to play. It's part of their makeup. We've banged on Will Benson all season, myself included. I'm sure no one feels worse about his season than Benson.

 

[14Red]

I always have difficulty determining whether your posts are satire or your honest beliefs, but two points:

1. No one who has watched any amount of the 2024 Reds would even consider a 10-0 run as possible. The team’s crappy offense is incapable of supporting that type of a run.

2. A big part of the problem is the lack of progression of players at the major-league level under this coaching staff. The true stars whose talent wins out have improved (Elly, Greene), but other guys don’t. Allowing Bell to continue on into 2025 would be total negligence.

Never in the 150 year history of the Reds franchise has a manager gotten 6 or more years while winning nothing. That right there is a sign of the lowered expectations and acceptance of failure under the Castellini regime. It’s still head-scratching how this franchise has gone from great managers like Sparky, Lou Piniella, Davey Johnson and Jack McKeon to their run of horrible managerial hires in the 21st Century, barring Dusty Baker.

I am certainly not a David Bell fan, but I do think you have to split up his time. The Reds were in a position in 2021 to "go for it" and then decided before 2022 to rebuild. These things take time. I realize many fans do not have the patience, but this is not unprecedented.
Now with that said, I do not feel Bell is the guy to take this forward, but many of these clubs now operate as a group. There is no way Bell puts the daily lineup together, I think it's set and he's simply asked to manage the team that day.

 

[GCPRO]

Oh my. Outside of Elly and Steer, I'd say most of these guys are playing for their jobs. And if the Reds decide to move Elly to centerfield, then Friedl will be a corner outfielder or looking for work. These guys have to prove themselves every day. These are uber competitive people, they don't need "pressure" to play. It's part of their makeup. We've banged on Will Benson all season, myself included. I'm sure no one feels worse about his season than Benson.

Once again you misunderstand. Pressure to deliver when the game matters, the games no longer matter when you are out of the playoff race. The last month of the season is the Arizona Fall League if you are out of the playoff race.
"Competitive" players? Because they are paid, they are competitive? WoW! You're telling me the Reds lineup competed this past weekend?

 

[14Red]

My real feelings are mostly as you laid out. Sometimes I get frustrated with ownership of this team but honestly until this season, I still supported Bell. I would still fully support him, just want him to change from current to former in his manager title. So yes, my quip about Bell getting the kids "ready" for next year was sarcastically stated.

I also enjoy the challenge of trying to remain positive in the face of adversity. Yes, anyone who analyzes this team knew that three game sweep was just another false tremor that they were coming alive. Too many fielding errors, base running blunders, inability to hit. This team has had decent pitching that appears out of gas, and they are not fundamental enough to win any significant percentage of games.

In honor of the great Tracy Jones, "fire Dusty (David)".

I appreciate the positive vibes. The great thing about baseball is it's a LONG season, ups and downs are expected. Heck, look back at 1990. That season the Reds busted out of the gates and got off to a quick start, but played pretty much .500 ball after the all star break. If that team had faltered in the playoffs, there would had been alot of finger pointing and blaming that they ran out of gas and didn't go get enough help. They got hot in October and won the world series. That's baseball. Look around at many of the other teams in baseball, they are alot like the Reds, ups and downs. The Pirates are experiencing an AWFUL August. Two months ago, they bring up Paul Skenes and were pushing the Brewers, now look at them.
The most fundamental thing I see with this team is it's inability to get on base an create any kind of offense. That whole game turned yesterday when Blanco, who hit two homers on Saturday, pushed a bunt to first base and got on. He steals second, then the Royals do what they do, they hit with men in scoring position. KC is second in all of baseball for the least number of strikeouts. The Reds are 7th. When you have so many unproductive outs, it's just kills the offense. Later in the game, guy leads off with a double. Deep fly to right moves him to 3rd, another fly ball brings him home. The Royals relief pitcher gift wrapped a comeback for us in the 7th with walks, we have Elly and Steer up with the bases loaded (guys we want up) and they both strike out. Those of us who follow the team daily see this all too often.

 

[14Red]

The building blocks are still here, but if Greene is injured and the Reds bungle it like they do with many injuries, that could put a severe blow into the hopes of the 2025 Reds. For me, if there’s even a hint of an elbow injury, shut him down and let him rest and heal for next season. Don’t run him back out there after 15 days to tempt fate.

I don't fully disagree with this, but let me ask you this. So Greene gets shut down for the rest of '24. Things go as planned next year and we get to September... He's NEVER thrown more than 143 innings in a season. How in the heck are we ever going to get deep into a playoff run if we have guys who've never thrown more than 150 innings in a season? At some point we have to expand these guys out.

 

[wolves82]

What do any at bats that occur when there is zero pressure to produce matter? Please answer that for me? September baseball for teams out of contention is no better than the Arizona Fall league

Wow. A lot of the September at bats will be against MLB-caliber pitchers throwing for teams in contention. None of those guys are throwing in the Arizona Fall league.

Also, there are three decks on the MLB stadiums, with lots of people in them. It absolutely matters, and absolutely adds pressure to the individuals taking the ABs.

 

[GCPRO]

Wow. A lot of the September at bats will be against MLB-caliber pitchers throwing for teams in contention. None of those guys are throwing in the Arizona Fall league.

Also, there are three decks on the MLB stadiums, with lots of people in them. It absolutely matters, and absolutely adds pressure to the individuals taking the ABs.

Just disagree. See it in every level of athletics I’ve been involved with. K

 

[AEW Champion]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785709895582408927

This tweet is old (from 5/1/24), but in the wake of Hunter Greene being on the IL with elbow soreness, that makes it 10 for 10 in terms of the top 10 average fastball velocities by starting pitchers last year ultimately getting hurt last year or this year.

 

[wolves82]

Just disagree. See it in every level of athletics I’ve been involved with. K

OK we can disagree. Here is what I have seen.

My son was an exceptional HS pitcher. He was middling in college, and not good enough to be drafted. Only the exceptional kids got drafted. One of his buddies did, got a signing bonus from the Rockies. He was a middling pitcher in the low minors and never made it beyond high A ball.

Every level up is way tougher. So I am confident that 95% of the MLB guys throwing in September will be tougher than 95% of the pitchers in the Arizona fall league. So if McLain is 100% healthy, he should do a rehab stint in the minors, and if still healthy, he would benefit from a few weeks at the highest level.

 

[14Red]

Reds moves today....

 

[14Red]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785709895582408927

This tweet is old (from 5/1/24), but in the wake of Hunter Greene being on the IL with elbow soreness, that makes it 10 for 10 in terms of the top 10 average fastball velocities by starting pitchers last year ultimately getting hurt last year or this year.

And there was a report out last week that MLB wants to required starting pitchers to go 6 innings? In what world? Baseball needs to stop placating to the fans for what they want. The game itself stands just fine.

 

[14Red]

O Canada!

 

[14Red]

That thud you heard on Saturday was me hitting the ground after hearing the news of Hunter Greene's "elbow soreness". A couple of thing I really looked forward to the next 6 weeks was Hunter's continued dominance and his assault on a potential 2nd Cy Young for a Reds pitcher in 5 seasons. The latter is likely over.
Now the one thing we can hang out hat on for now, as long as the Reds information is accurate, that it's elbow soreness and forearm tightness. Forearm tightness is generally a precursor to Tommy John surgery. My hope is that Hunter has been grinding pretty hard the last 2 months, and his elbow is just a little sore from that. Let's hope and pray that's it.
This franchise's 2025 is HEAVILY dependent upon Hunter Greene, Nick Lodolo and Andrew Abbott being top of the rotation, 25+ start guys for the entire season. We are in year 7 of Hunter being in the organization and the groundwork has been laid, the extended contract has him a Red for the foreseeable future.
I feel for Reds fans because you are again be asked for patience. I don't see this organization going out and buying FA pitchers, but if for some reason Greene's elbow is not good, the team may need to go that direction.
I do feel that if he is ok in a week to 10 days, he needs to come back and pitch. Another 3-4 starts would put a cap on a breakout season for him.

 

[wolves82]

That thud you heard on Saturday was me hitting the ground after hearing the news of Hunter Greene's "elbow soreness". A couple of thing I really looked forward to the next 6 weeks was Hunter's continued dominance and his assault on a potential 2nd Cy Young for a Reds pitcher in 5 seasons. The latter is likely over.
Now the one thing we can hang out hat on for now, as long as the Reds information is accurate, that it's elbow soreness and forearm tightness. Forearm tightness is generally a precursor to Tommy John surgery. My hope is that Hunter has been grinding pretty hard the last 2 months, and his elbow is just a little sore from that. Let's hope and pray that's it.
This franchise's 2025 is HEAVILY dependent upon Hunter Greene, Nick Lodolo and Andrew Abbott being top of the rotation, 25+ start guys for the entire season. We are in year 7 of Hunter being in the organization and the groundwork has been laid, the extended contract has him a Red for the foreseeable future.
I feel for Reds fans because you are again be asked for patience. I don't see this organization going out and buying FA pitchers, but if for some reason Greene's elbow is not good, the team may need to go that direction.
I do feel that if he is ok in a week to 10 days, he needs to come back and pitch. Another 3-4 starts would put a cap on a breakout season for him.

I am 100% with you in hoping it is not going to require TJ.

I have zero% faith in the Reds medical staff. If they say Hunter is fine, he should go get 2nd and 3rd opinions. It looks like the games in September will not be meaningful in the standings, so if there is even 1% uncertainty in the diagnosis, Hunter should not pitch any more this year. As you say, he is critical to the plans for 2025. No point in risking anything in September.

 

[14Red]

I am 100% with you in hoping it is not going to require TJ.

I have zero% faith in the Reds medical staff. If they say Hunter is fine, he should go get 2nd and 3rd opinions. It looks like the games in September will not be meaningful in the standings, so if there is even 1% uncertainty in the diagnosis, Hunter should not pitch any more this year. As you say, he is critical to the plans for 2025. No point in risking anything in September.

I mean if I threw like Hunter, my elbow may be sore sometimes too. We'll just hope it's not TJ. It seems like with TJ, it's more forearm pain.

 

[GCPRO]

OK we can disagree. Here is what I have seen.

My son was an exceptional HS pitcher. He was middling in college, and not good enough to be drafted. Only the exceptional kids got drafted. One of his buddies did, got a signing bonus from the Rockies. He was a middling pitcher in the low minors and never made it beyond high A ball.

Every level up is way tougher. So I am confident that 95% of the MLB guys throwing in September will be tougher than 95% of the pitchers in the Arizona fall league. So if McLain is 100% healthy, he should do a rehab stint in the minors, and if still healthy, he would benefit from a few weeks at the highest level.

I’ve seen those players myself. I think from my experience is that it becomes what’s inside the particular players that separate them. If you’ve been to any spring training camp the amount of talented players is ridiculous.
Facing those arms matter little when the outcome of an at bat or the game is inconsequential. Just my point.

The same with Greene. If in fact he’s having physical issues he needs not to pitch any more this season. Be healthy for 2025.

 

[AEW Champion]

And there was a report out last week that MLB wants to required starting pitchers to go 6 innings? In what world? Baseball needs to stop placating to the fans for what they want. The game itself stands just fine.

I figured you would be in favor of that mandate, given your constant gripes about pitchers not going deep enough into games.

 

[14Red]

I figured you would be in favor of that mandate, given your constant gripes about pitchers not going deep enough into games.

Absolutely, but you have to build up to it. The issue I have is the reason they want to do this is for more fan interest. It's clear that the reason pitchers don't go longer is because today's pitching is way ahead of the hitting. You give a medium to good starter two rotations through the lineup, then bring in one after another of guys who throw 95+ and that's dropped batting averaged over 30 points over the last 20 years.
My suggestion is to limit teams to have only 10 or 11 pitchers on their staff. That forces managers to leave starters in longer. The other thing to consider is this may have some union backing because if you continue to lessen the workload for starters, why would teams be inclined to overpay? I've always been surprised that starting pitchers don't fight more for innings. Most seem very content going 5 innings a start. The most expensive starting pitchers are making between $30 million to $40 million this season, you can nearly make up a staff of effective pitchers for that price tag. That has to scare the union.
Other consideration, one of the major issues with baseball is lack of offense. Why not lower the mound? This was done back in the late 60's because pitching was dominating baseball and it had a big affect on the game. You flatten that mound some and it affects the breaking pitches.

 

[14Red]

Reds going on the road to Toronto, Blue Jays veteran Tyler Glassnow vs. Julian Aguiar, just called up to make his major league debut. What would you guess is the outcome? Reds win 6-3. We finally swing the bats a little, doubling our run output tonight that we had in 3 games vs. the Royals.
Really hard to figure how the bullpen is going to hold up at this pace. Our starters now are Lodolo, Abbott, Aguiar, Spires is pitching tomorrow and Nick Martinez, who's been a bullpen guy most of the season. Two more in Toronto then 4 in Pittsburgh.

 

[14Red]

“We had a doctor see him, had [an] MRI, it’s not as bad as we thought,” Reds president of baseball operations Nick Krall said Sunday in an appearance on MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM. “He’s going to get checked out again, a second opinion, and we’re working through that right now. At this point, it’s minimal. He’s going to miss some time, obviously, because it is an injury to his elbow and we just want to be precautious on that. But overall it’s the best-case scenario and hopefully he’ll miss a minimal amount of time and be back soon.” - Nick Krall taking about Hunter Greene

Ok, first of all I have no problem with Nick Krall. I think he's done a pretty good job of building this franchise. However, given the situations of McLain, CES, Graham Ashcraft, you could see why Reds fans may be skeptical.
What does this babble mean? Not as bad as we thought? The first mention Saturday was he had elbow soreness and he was going to the IL as a precaution??? Sounds like they may have thought it was worse? HE'S getting a second opinion and WE'RE working on that? What does that mean? A second opinion means Greene is making that call?? We've had two players get 2nd opinions this year, CES and Ashcraft. Both are done for the season. Within the last two sentences.... "he's going to miss some time, and he'll miss a minimal amount of time and be back soon?" What does that mean? It would had been better if he just declined the interview request. I'm almost sure that if David Bell and Nick Krall had a meeting, it could last an hour and nothing would be said.

 

[wolves82]

Reds going on the road to Toronto, Blue Jays veteran Tyler Glassnow vs. Julian Aguiar, just called up to make his major league debut. What would you guess is the outcome? Reds win 6-3. We finally swing the bats a little, doubling our run output tonight that we had in 3 games vs. the Royals.
Really hard to figure how the bullpen is going to hold up at this pace. Our starters now are Lodolo, Abbott, Aguiar, Spires is pitching tomorrow and Nick Martinez, who's been a bullpen guy most of the season. Two more in Toronto then 4 in Pittsburgh.

LOL. The pitcher's name is "Glasnow" and he pitches for the Dodgers. Nice try though. It was Kevin Gausman for the Jays last night. I did tune in at 2-2, saw the Reds knock out Gausman and then Steer, France and Fraley hit 3 straight gap doubles to right center off a reliever to make it 6-2. Nice to see some solid hits.

As for the bullpen, they will just keep the revolving door with Louisville going, I'd imagine. Ownership and management could care less about quality at this point. They have made their nut for the year.

 

[wolves82]

“We had a doctor see him, had [an] MRI, it’s not as bad as we thought,” Reds president of baseball operations Nick Krall said Sunday in an appearance on MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM. “He’s going to get checked out again, a second opinion, and we’re working through that right now. At this point, it’s minimal. He’s going to miss some time, obviously, because it is an injury to his elbow and we just want to be precautious on that. But overall it’s the best-case scenario and hopefully he’ll miss a minimal amount of time and be back soon.” - Nick Krall taking about Hunter Greene

Ok, first of all I have no problem with Nick Krall. I think he's done a pretty good job of building this franchise. However, given the situations of McLain, CES, Graham Ashcraft, you could see why Reds fans may be skeptical.
What does this babble mean? Not as bad as we thought? The first mention Saturday was he had elbow soreness and he was going to the IL as a precaution??? Sounds like they may have thought it was worse? HE'S getting a second opinion and WE'RE working on that? What does that mean? A second opinion means Greene is making that call?? We've had two players get 2nd opinions this year, CES and Ashcraft. Both are done for the season. Within the last two sentences.... "he's going to miss some time, and he'll miss a minimal amount of time and be back soon?" What does that mean? It would had been better if he just declined the interview request. I'm almost sure that if David Bell and Nick Krall had a meeting, it could last an hour and nothing would be said.

It means Krall is smart enough to realize the Reds medical staff is incompetent but he did not want to come out and say it. It also means that he is not sure of the outcome, clearly. Also, he is dumb enough to use made up words like "precautious" in an interview. Finally, calling elbow discomfort the "overall best case scenario" is pretty stupid. The best case scenario is that Greene has no pain whatsoever and is not on the IL. He could say, "given the circumstances, we were happy with the initial medical report", or something like that.

I know this sounds nit-picky, but in business what you say means something. Smarter people don't say stupid things like that in an interview. With this many years on the job, Krall should be smarter, better. People just let this crap slide without questioning anything. We are numbed by hearing stupid comments in interviews everyday, especially from people that want us to vote for them.

Glad they are getting outside opinions on Greene. If there is 1% doubt, he pitches no more this season.

 

[14Red]

LOL. The pitcher's name is "Glasnow" and he pitches for the Dodgers. Nice try though. It was Kevin Gausman for the Jays last night. I did tune in at 2-2, saw the Reds knock out Gausman and then Steer, France and Fraley hit 3 straight gap doubles to right center off a reliever to make it 6-2. Nice to see some solid hits.

As for the bullpen, they will just keep the revolving door with Louisville going, I'd imagine. Ownership and management could care less about quality at this point. They have made their nut for the year.

Glassnow....Gausman...same thing. LOL.

The bullpen has not been the problem this year, they've been pretty steady all year, even Buck Farmer. The issue many have with the current state of baseball is the "average" pitcher is much much better than the "average" hitter. It's an opportunity for some kids to get a chance. Aguiar may get a shot to stay in the rotation for awhile.

 

[14Red]

It means Krall is smart enough to realize the Reds medical staff is incompetent but he did not want to come out and say it. It also means that he is not sure of the outcome, clearly. Also, he is dumb enough to use made up words like "precautious" in an interview. Finally, calling elbow discomfort the "overall best case scenario" is pretty stupid. The best case scenario is that Greene has no pain whatsoever and is not on the IL. He could say, "given the circumstances, we were happy with the initial medical report", or something like that.

I know this sounds nit-picky, but in business what you say means something. Smarter people don't say stupid things like that in an interview. With this many years on the job, Krall should be smarter, better. People just let this crap slide without questioning anything. We are numbed by hearing stupid comments in interviews everyday, especially from people that want us to vote for them.

Glad they are getting outside opinions on Greene. If there is 1% doubt, he pitches no more this season.

Everyone can get another opinion, that's not just for athletes. But I don't know why the Reds would do anything other than what's in the best interest of the player. They team is invested in these guys are will take it very cautious. Too cautious in my opinion. But the notion that the club or the medical staff is doing anything that would hurt the players chances to perform make no sense at all.

 

[wolves82]

Everyone can get another opinion, that's not just for athletes. But I don't know why the Reds would do anything other than what's in the best interest of the player. They team is invested in these guys are will take it very cautious. Too cautious in my opinion. But the notion that the club or the medical staff is doing anything that would hurt the players chances to perform make no sense at all.

Of course I agree that the Reds medical team WANTS to do what is in the best interest of the players. Anything else would be insane. That is why it just has to be incompetence.

They did not intentionally send CES back out there with a fractured hand. They just missed it, and he got hurt worse. They did not intentionally send Lodolo back out there last year with his leg issue unresolved. They just blew that also. As well as many others.

 

[14Red]

Another day, another new Red. Amed Rasario. Candelario goes on the IL.

 

[14Red]

Reds are undefeated out of the United States this season. Toronto starter is Jose Berrios, and yes, I've confirmed it is him. It will be imperative that Spires gives us some length tonight.