The Amish

[IVCguy]

Funny, ex Amish guy comes onto guru site more often than most anyone else.

I was watching a classic movie a couple days ago, one that I have never made it all the way through due to its juvenile humor and content. But they made one salient point that has gotten me thinking this week. They stated that Amish people get ahead in life by doing things one and a half times more than the average English. As I thought about that, and a scene in For Richer or Poorer where the actor says " 5:00 in the morning, I overslept" or something sis milar to that. I was trained at a young age to get up around 3:00. I then would work typically 12 hours, take a 1 hour nap, and work another 6 hours. Dad always said "stay too busy to spend your money and you will multiply it many times".

So my question for you Mr Guru is this, do you believe Amish in general work 1.5 times harder than the English? Or is their lifestyle mostly responsible for their ability to save large sums of money relative to their income?

Wow. That's a book- or at least a 60 page term paper. But my opinion is shorter. Lol

The Amish do work harder than most folks by virtue of the modern conveniences they do not use.

I think this is particularly true of farmers. There is a loss of efficiency when you don't use tractors or modern equipment, for example, and that lack of efficiency is paid for with a lot of sweat.

But that can apply to other aspects of Amish life. For example, until recently, almost all Amish did their laundry with a wring washer and no dryer. The work involved with washing, wringing, rinsing, and wringing again is a lot more labor intensive than throwing your clothes in a modern washer. Then, once the laundry is washed it has to be hung outside to dry (weather permitting) or hung in the basement.

Now, for all except the low groups, more of them are using modern conveniences like tractors (with some limitations) and washers, even dryers. Increased used of solar and larger generators have allowed them to advance into more convenience and save some of the extra labor.

But, by modern English standards, they still have to make up for a lack of efficiency with harder work - comparatively. And they are generally happy to make those sacrifices in order to maintain a separation and difference from "the world".

As to wealth and prosperity - it is incredible how many Amish in Holmes Co are filthy rich. They are an industrious, frugal, and hardworking people. They save money in dozens of ways: insurance, transportation, utilities, clothes, food (with butchering their own animals and gardens, canning/freezing), no jewelry, entertainment, etc., etc. Even on modest incomes, if a a family saves wisely over decades and earns well above their lifestyle, they can accumulate an eye-popping amount of money and assets.

 

[nupanther]

Funny, ex Amish guy comes onto guru site more often than most anyone else.

I was watching a classic movie a couple days ago, one that I have never made it all the way through due to its juvenile humor and content. But they made one salient point that has gotten me thinking this week. They stated that Amish people get ahead in life by doing things one and a half times more than the average English. As I thought about that, and a scene in For Richer or Poorer where the actor says " 5:00 in the morning, I overslept" or something sis milar to that. I was trained at a young age to get up around 3:00. I then would work typically 12 hours, take a 1 hour nap, and work another 6 hours. Dad always said "stay too busy to spend your money and you will multiply it many times".

So my question for you Mr Guru is this, do you believe Amish in general work 1.5 times harder than the English? Or is their lifestyle mostly responsible for their ability to save large sums of money relative to their income?

Was this movie Kingpin?

 

[D4fan]

Wow. That's a book- or at least a 60 page term paper. But my opinion is shorter. Lol

The Amish do work harder than most folks by virtue of the modern conveniences they do not use.

I think this is particularly true of farmers. There is a loss of efficiency when you don't use tractors or modern equipment, for example, and that lack of efficiency is paid for with a lot of sweat.

But that can apply to other aspects of Amish life. For example, until recently, almost all Amish did their laundry with a wring washer and no dryer. The work involved with washing, wringing, rinsing, and wringing again is a lot more labor intensive than throwing your clothes in a modern washer. Then, once the laundry is washed it has to be hung outside to dry (weather permitting) or hung in the basement.

Now, for all except the low groups, more of them are using modern conveniences like tractors (with some limitations) and washers, even dryers. Increased used of solar and larger generators have allowed them to advance into more convenience and save some of the extra labor.

But, by modern English standards, they still have to make up for a lack of efficiency with harder work - comparatively. And they are generally happy to make those sacrifices in order to maintain a separation and difference from "the world".

As to wealth and prosperity - it is incredible how many Amish in Holmes Co are filthy rich. They are an industrious, frugal, and hardworking people. They save money in dozens of ways: insurance, transportation, utilities, clothes, food (with butchering their own animals and gardens, canning/freezing), no jewelry, entertainment, etc., etc. Even on modest incomes, if a a family saves wisely over decades and earns well above their lifestyle, they can accumulate an eye-popping amount of money and assets.

Great synopsis. From my deduction I believe you would place lifestyle above hours worked for their affluence.

So the best of all worlds financially would be someone who embraces modern technology for work efficiency, but practices the self denying principles that cause consumption of resources.

I probably left the anabaptist church I was raised in due to marrying my high school non believing girlfriend, who did not quite embrace the no TV or radio thing even if it did add to overall productivity. Today, I still live much the same as I was raised, no jewelry, few new clothes (being a farmer I get all the free coats I can use, free hats, my clothes come from my work uniforms, I get free steel toed shoes from my employer, drive mostly old vehicles that need some repairs but are depreciated fully.

I don't intentionally set out to live so tight fisted, just seems ingrained.

 

[D4fan]

Was this movie Kingpin?

Yes, it was.

 

[IVCguy]

So the best of all worlds financially would be someone who embraces modern technology for work efficiency, but practices the self denying principles...

This!^^^

 

[eastisbest]

What good is money not spent? Building small paper tiger empires? Passing it down to the next generation that doesn't still won't spend it?

It gets spent. I expect no different from Amish. If they're earning it, they're using it.

 

[IVCguy]

What good is money not spent? Building small paper tiger empires? Passing it down to the next generation that doesn't still won't spend it?

It gets spent. I expect no different from Amish. If they're earning it, they're using it.

Well, I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from. No one suggested the Amish don't spend - they do. The suggestion was that, generally, their lifestyle involves significantly less spending than their income.

Financial advisors refer to that gap as "living with margin" and it is strongly urged. It allows for emergency funds, general savings, investments - which creates a high degree of financial security and increases one's wealth. It also equips one for a high degree of charitable giving.

I hope you aren't arguing against financial security, increasing wealth, and generous giving. I'm sure you aren't.

But if you are suggesting an "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" type of financial and spending approach, you have to remember that the Amish are a Christian sect who would reject that kind of pagan approach and would tend to follow Biblical financial principles that certainly encourage living with margin. FWIW

 

[eastisbest]

Well, I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from. No one suggested the Amish don't spend - they do. The suggestion was that, generally, their lifestyle involves significantly less spending than their income.

Financial advisors refer to that gap as "living with margin" and it is strongly urged. It allows for emergency funds, general savings, investments - which creates a high degree of financial security and increases one's wealth. It also equips one for a high degree of charitable giving.

I hope you aren't arguing against financial security, increasing wealth, and generous giving. I'm sure you aren't.

But if you are suggesting an "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" type of financial and spending approach, you have to remember that the Amish are a Christian sect who would reject that kind of pagan approach and would tend to follow Biblical financial principles that certainly encourage living with margin. FWIW

For someone not understanding where I am coming from, you had a lot of response, lol.

 

[IVCguy]

For someone not understanding where I am coming from, you had a lot of response, lol.

Ha! Just covering the most obvious possibilities.

Interesting you don't take the opportunity to explain it yourself, but OK. Thanks for your contribution.

 

[eastisbest]

Ha! Just covering the most obvious possibilities.

Interesting you don't take the opportunity to explain it yourself, but OK. Thanks for your contribution.

Kind of snarky response. They teach you that in Bible school?

What's "interesting" about lack of explanation (rhetorical)? You looking for hidden meaning ?

You didn't ask for further explanation. Would that be "interesting?" You just core dumped possible scenarios. Clear your brain of its little voices. No hidden meanings.

 

[IVCguy]

Kind of snarky response. They teach you that in Bible school?

What's "interesting" about lack of explanation (rhetorical)? You looking for hidden meaning ?

You didn't ask for further explanation. Would that be "interesting?" You just core dumped possible scenarios. Clear your brain of its little voices. No hidden meanings.

There is a hostility in your comments that is not hard to detect. Your assertion that you know how a culture functions in a particular area - in this case, money and spending - is arrogant AND erroneous. Add in that you arent willing to detail your thoughts indicates that you are not trying to have an honest discussion.

After all, we have a guy here who grew up Amish (D4) and understands it. Is he lying about his experience - the experience that I have observed in the culture in which I have lived for decades?

So, I'm not sure I know what to do with that other than say thanks for trying to contribute.

 

[IVCguy]

To take this in a more positive and practical direction - and serve the purpose of the thread - there are some Amish who do get into financial trouble. Some of it is due to poor planning or spending, but it can be due to calamities or events outside the family's control.

When an Amish family gets into financial trouble, the church steps in. They will pay for essentials, put the family on a budget, manage their debts, and, most interesting, will assign a man in the church to control their bank accounts. That designated man writes all the checks for the family and controls all spending. He negotiates down debts and payment schedules.

 

[eastisbest]

Your assertion that you know how a culture functions in a particular area - in this case, money and spending -

Care to quote that.

 

[IVCguy]

Care to quote that.

It gets spent. I expect no different from Amish. If they're earning it, they're using it.

 

[eastisbest]

Your assertion that you know how a culture functions in a particular area - in this case, money and spending -is arrogant AND erroneous.

It gets spent. I expect no different from Amish. If they're earning it, they're using it

You found egregious offense in that? lol. Prove me wrong.

While you're at it, tell me what my culture is. Careful now. You don't want to come off arrogant AND erroneous and you might look at how many presumptions you've stated about how other culture functions then do that look in the mirror thing.

Instead of just asking, you went into a whole dissertation of possible scenarios that must have flowed into that one line of my post.

You've been presumptious and arrogant so a little back at you based on observation of your responses. You've got little voices in your head presuming for you, particularly if they've presummed your position is being disputed. That's not conversation and idea exchange. That's arrogance, "guru."

 

[IVCguy]

You found egregious offense in that? lol. Prove me wrong.

While you're at it, tell me what my culture is. Careful now. You don't want to come off arrogant AND erroneous and you might look at how many presumptions you've stated about how other culture functions then do that look in the mirror thing.

Instead of just asking, you went into a whole dissertation of possible scenarios that must have flowed into that one line of my post.

You've been presumptious and arrogant so a little back at you based on observation of your responses. You've got little voices in your head presuming for you, particularly if they've presummed your position is being disputed. That's not conversation and idea exchange. That's arrogance, "guru."

Enough. My limit on foolishness has been reached. You are on ignore.

 

[eastisbest]

Enough. My limit on foolishness has been reached. You are on ignore.

I guess that's what wannabe gurus do when their pretentious accusations get called out. First he infers Amish culture are hoarders, then insults those that suggest otherwise. Run Forest Run!

 

[MasonComet]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852647849168683147

 

[IVCguy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852647849168683147

One of the most amazing things I've seen is a large barn built in one day during a "frolic". Maybe 100+ men and boys get organized into teams under a master builder, the ladies start getting the food going, and by the end of the day everyone is tired, well fed, and a new barn is standing.

When there is a need or suffering, they will show up if they can. They are generous with their time and money.

 

[Thavoice]

See Amish every couple weeks, the other day they had their horse and buggy at the dollar general.

there was a local guy who was on a show on TLC this summer who left the lifestyle and married an 'english' woman is wht they call main stream whitey I suppose
He started a local roofing company and seemed to be do pretty well.

They promoted the show on the business facebook page to watch the show, etc. It made him look in a very bad light...and I know thos shows pick a storyline and go for it. (the english woman he married was pretty attractive and seemed like a predator how she lured him.....)

Among the personal things that TLC focused on was his addiction to porn and cheating on his wife, etc. Soon after the show ended for the season his business seemed to have...disappeared.........

 

[IVCguy]

See Amish every couple weeks, the other day they had their horse and buggy at the dollar general.

there was a local guy who was on a show on TLC this summer who left the lifestyle and married an 'english' woman is wht they call main stream whitey I suppose
He started a local roofing company and seemed to be do pretty well.

They promoted the show on the business facebook page to watch the show, etc. It made him look in a very bad light...and I know thos shows pick a storyline and go for it. (the english woman he married was pretty attractive and seemed like a predator how she lured him.....)

Among the personal things that TLC focused on was his addiction to porn and cheating on his wife, etc. Soon after the show ended for the season his business seemed to have...disappeared.........

Yeah, I mean, I can't stand those reality "Amish" shows. When you know the people in them, you realize how many lies and misrepresentations are going on. It's pretty disgusting.

There was a good one about 15 years ago called "Amish Out of Order" about an ex-Amish guy (I think his name was Mose Gingerich) who had left the low Amish in Wisconsin or Iowa and moved to Columbia, Missouri. He started a construction company and did well. He began a program where he helped 18 year olds+ that wanted to leave, get out, he had places for them to stay, gave them jobs, and helped them adjust to the new world they were living in.

These kids were going from one, very strict world that was very structured and where most of their choices were made for them into a different world with, to them, radical freedom, but with rules they did not understand, so many of them, without guidance, ended up in jail.

I liked the show because the sories were interesting and didnt seem conjured. You could follow a variety of kids about why they left, how well they adapted, and why some of them went back home.

But everything else I've seen has been trash - particularly anything on TLC. Lol.

 

[Thavoice]

Yeah, I mean, I can't stand those reality "Amish" shows. When you know the people in them, you realize how many lies and misrepresentations are going on. It's pretty disgusting.

There was a good one about 15 years ago called "Amish Out of Order" about an ex-Amish guy (I think his name was Mose Gingerich) who had left the low Amish in Wisconsin or Iowa and moved to Columbia, Missouri. He started a construction company and did well. He began a program where he helped 18 year olds+ that wanted to leave, get out, he had places for them to stay, gave them jobs, and helped them adjust to the new world they were living in.

These kids were going from one, very strict world that was very structured and where most of their choices were made for them into a different world with, to them, radical freedom, but with rules they did not understand, so many of them, without guidance, ended up in jail.

I liked the show because the sories were interesting and didnt seem conjured. You could follow a variety of kids about why they left, how well they adapted, and why some of them went back home.

But everything else I've seen has been trash - particularly anything on TLC. Lol.

My bad..it wasn't an Amish reality show. It was about people from way different backgrounds getting married.
Amish and english.
Muslim and non Muslim.
Orthodox jew and maybe a catholic or whatever