Separating public and private schools.

Yes, that happens; but it is also true that when public schools can't teach special need students, they can and do send them to private schools
I don't know the statistics on it, and that may be the case, but that's just my anecdotal experience with someone I knew.

Now if a private school had enough special needs children (either physically or mentally challenged) that they could get enough funds to make it worthwhile I could understand. But in his case, they just literally did not have the teaching capacity for anything other than maybe high functioning autistic children. Severe disability was just a no-go. So, it would be 'hire an entirely new staff for one child' was not worth the tuition that they'd get. Problem is they probably kept saying that to prospective special needs students that at some point there would've been enough enrolled to make it worthwhile.

The only thing about it was, that school no longer exists. It was consolidated by the diocese with another Catholic school and turned into a much larger school built brand new. So, maybe now they do offer special education.
 
Yes, that happens; but it is also true that when public schools can't teach special need students, they can and do send them to private schools
Huh? You must know of some bizzarre instance. The local privates around me are not even ADA accessible.

Every kid that walks through the door at my local public school must be accomodated. That means language and disabilities.
 
You know, EdChoice could be helping a school like TCC without anyone "gaming" the system.
Are you insinuating that TCC's enjoyment of such advantages of depth and talent just happens? I'd strongly suggest not even trying to be so stupid. They are using vouchers as scholarships and picking and choosing who they accept. Plain and simple.

TBH my only beef is with the system the state legislature has created. If schools want to be private then stay private. Fact is, if not for vouchers TCC would probably be closed.
 
I don't know the statistics on it, and that may be the case, but that's just my anecdotal experience with someone I knew.

Now if a private school had enough special needs children (either physically or mentally challenged) that they could get enough funds to make it worthwhile I could understand. But in his case, they just literally did not have the teaching capacity for anything other than maybe high functioning autistic children. Severe disability was just a no-go. So, it would be 'hire an entirely new staff for one child' was not worth the tuition that they'd get. Problem is they probably kept saying that to prospective special needs students that at some point there would've been enough enrolled to make it worthwhile.

The only thing about it was, that school no longer exists. It was consolidated by the diocese with another Catholic school and turned into a much larger school built brand new. So, maybe now they do offer special education.
The "Ed Choice" Or scholarship program is another loophole that benefits the private schools. Is it even legal for state Money to fund a religious organization? 80% of private schools are religion based.
In my opinion geographically definef districts and non geographically defined schools should be separated when it comes to competitive extra curricular activities.
 
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Huh? You must know of some bizzarre instance. The local privates around me are not even ADA accessible.

Every kid that walks through the door at my local public school must be accomodated. That means language and disabilities.


There are 5 private schools that cater to disabilities in my area; they average around 50% public school students. Most public schools just warehouse the severely disabled special need students
you can see one of the schools from I-75 at the Glendale-Milford rd exit; it is that large school on the hill to the NW. [St Rita]
 
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No plan is perfect unless all Public Schools are able to operatced exactly like the Private schools. How about this for a plan. Private schools play a regular schedule vs. public and private schools then when the playoff start the Privates would go to one bracket for a state championship and the public schools would go into another bracket for a state championship. this plan is feasible. I care about Private schools but for people to say that Private schools don't have advantages over public schools is just not true. Even Private schools understand they have advantages over public schools. This plan would help both Publics and Privates in my opinion. If your not going to follow the exact rules and regulations then your cheating.
Look at the great state of Texas, they separated the two years ago.....it's a solution whose time has come
 
................................Look at the great state of Texas, they separated the two years ago.....it's a solution whose time has come


Texas has had separate systems for a long time; in the early 2000's the state legislature passed a bill [Texas SB 524 allowing the 2 largest private school to be admitted to the public school org. As of today, any private school willing to have their enrollment doubled and then multiplied by 1.8 can be admitted to the public school org.
TAPPS [the private school org] members cannot exceed 725 students
 
No plan is perfect unless all Public Schools are able to operatced exactly like the Private schools. How about this for a plan. Private schools play a regular schedule vs. public and private schools then when the playoff start the Privates would go to one bracket for a state championship and the public schools would go into another bracket for a state championship. this plan is feasible. I care about Private schools but for people to say that Private schools don't have advantages over public schools is just not true. Even Private schools understand they have advantages over public schools. This plan would help both Publics and Privates in my opinion. If your not going to follow the exact rules and regulations then your cheating.
Look at the great state of Texas, they separated the two years ago.....it's a solution whose time has come
Be real about your reasons. Your team hasn't won the title since Christ was lecturing in Omaha, and you want that damn trophy with or without regard to the fact that you probably wouldn't be the best.
 
There are 5 private schools that cater to disabilities in my area; they average around 50% public school students. Most public schools just warehouse the severely disabled special need students
you can see one of the schools from I-75 at the Glendale-Milford rd exit; it is that large school on the hill to the NW. [St Rita]
BS.

Public schools do not "warehouse" severly disabled students. In fact, in my district, severly disabled students are assigned a full-time aide that is with that student, individually, all day.

Talk about what you know because this is not it.
 
No plan is perfect unless all Public Schools are able to operatced exactly like the Private schools. How about this for a plan. Private schools play a regular schedule vs. public and private schools then when the playoff start the Privates would go to one bracket for a state championship and the public schools would go into another bracket for a state championship. this plan is feasible. I care about Private schools but for people to say that Private schools don't have advantages over public schools is just not true. Even Private schools understand they have advantages over public schools. This plan would help both Publics and Privates in my opinion. If your not going to follow the exact rules and regulations then your cheating.
Look at the great state of Texas, they separated the two years ago.....it's a solution whose time has come
Some public schools have advantages over other public schools. Do you want to seperate the haves and have nots on the public side too?
 
The "Ed Choice" Or scholarship program is another loophole that benefits the private schools. Is it even legal for state Money to fund a religious organization? 80% of private schools are religion based.
In my opinion geographically definef districts and non geographically defined schools should be separated when it comes to competitive extra curricular activities.
To answer your question no.

The state Supreme Court of Ohio has ruled 4 times that the way we fund our schools is illegal (property tax). Now, with the expansion of vouchers, MY property tax, which is meant for MY district, actually leaves to help prop up a supposedly private school outside of my district. Then there is the question of how much public dollars triggers compliance like all public schools? As of today, they actually get to use public dollars as scholarships and still pick and choose who walks through their doors.

The solution is simple. Either eliminate EdChoice OR make the private schools abide by everything their public counterparts must and we will have a level playing field. Right now, it is not even close.
 
Be real about your reasons. Your team hasn't won the title since Christ was lecturing in Omaha, and you want that damn trophy with or without regard to the fact that you probably wouldn't be the best.
If the playing field was level it would be a different story. It is not close at the moment.
Some public schools have advantages over other public schools. Do you want to seperate the haves and have nots on the public side too?
Some do, within the confines of the law. As long as the rules of the game are the same for all, I have no problem with the system, but that is not the case at the moment when it comes to public vs private.

And this is a relatively new occurance. Back in the day, before EdChoice, Private schools had to make it on their own. Catholic schools, like the one I attended did just fine because there was a steady influx of Catholic kids. No one seemed to mind as much because by and large the Catholic schools were not using taxpayer dollars to poach the best and brightest (fastest and highest jumpers) from public districts as they are today. As people have left the church the Catholic schools, especially the urban ones, had to rethink their gameplan for survival. Along came EdChoice which saved the day.
 
Are you insinuating that TCC's enjoyment of such advantages of depth and talent just happens? I'd strongly suggest not even trying to be so stupid. They are using vouchers as scholarships and picking and choosing who they accept. Plain and simple.

TBH my only beef is with the system the state legislature has created. If schools want to be private then stay private. Fact is, if not for vouchers TCC would probably be closed.
I'd suggest trying to not be so obtuse. The Catholic schools, especially those sized in football's DII and below, are in no position to pick and choose who they accept as long as the bill is paid. You said it yourself, "if not for vouchers, TCC would probably be closed."

As much as we all love football, there is far more to the world.
 
To answer your question no.

The state Supreme Court of Ohio has ruled 4 times that the way we fund our schools is illegal (property tax). Now, with the expansion of vouchers, MY property tax, which is meant for MY district, actually leaves to help prop up a supposedly private school outside of my district. Then there is the question of how much public dollars triggers compliance like all public schools? As of today, they actually get to use public dollars as scholarships and still pick and choose who walks through their doors.

The solution is simple. Either eliminate EdChoice OR make the private schools abide by everything their public counterparts must and we will have a level playing field. Right now, it is not even close.

This is basically it, in a nutshell.

One must abide by regulatory cost burdens, public oversight, and accept everyone, and one does not. Can't square that circle. As usual the churchies got their way though. And yes some do, for all intents and purposes, provide athletic scholarships which is pretty much the definition of recruiting. Give 'em credit they sure know how to work those loopholes.
 
Texas has had separate systems for a long time; in the early 2000's the state legislature passed a bill [Texas SB 524 allowing the 2 largest private school to be admitted to the public school org. As of today, any private school willing to have their enrollment doubled and then multiplied by 1.8 can be admitted to the public school org.
TAPPS [the private school org] members cannot exceed 725 students
Two points to make...

1) The UIL was created by the University of Texas (hence the University Interscholastic League), which was first started for debate, and then other non-athletic competitions. It just works for basically any interscholastic competition so well. Because of this setup, it has and always was just for the public schools of Texas. TAPPS was created by the parochial schools and basically mimics the exact rules. And if you want to get technical, there is/was the PVIL (Prairie View Interscholastic League) which was for segregated schools, that also basically followed the UIL setup before desegregation either closed or consolidated black schools (some still exist but are desegregated, obviously).

2) The lawsuit was that two extremely large schools: Strake Jesuit and Dallas Jesuit, were too large for TAPPS and they were essentially removed from being able to compete. Since TAPPS in Texas is mostly very small private schools. Texas doesn't have the behemoth private schools that major cities in the Northeast have. So, in lieu of some forced Act 72 like PA (where the PIAA was forced by law to admit private schools), the UIL came to the solution that the UIL will accept ANY private high school that is not eligible for admission to any of the other non-public associations (TAPPS, TCAL, TCAF, TAIAO, SBC, etc). This basically singled out just Strake Jesuit and Dallas Jesuit. Since every other private school are eligible to join one of those other associations.

That doubling enrollment, etc is because those two schools are male-only, while the UIL uses 9-12 ALL enrollment for classifications. They don't count male or female, and don't count just 3 of the 4 years for a two year cycle. And they also don't use enrollment. They pick one day, and literally count every student in attendance at the school that day. If they're home sick, etc, then they're not counted. Even if they're technically enrolled at the school. So, to get to a male/female equivalent of an all-male school, they just double the enrollment.

Also, if one of the private schools eligible to join UIL are ever caught recruiting, they're permanently banned for the UIL. So there's huge incentive NOT to recruit or even to appear to recruit.
 
BS.

Public schools do not "warehouse" severly disabled students. In fact, in my district, severly disabled students are assigned a full-time aide that is with that student, individually, all day.

Talk about what you know because this is not it.

Unfortunately; am well aware of how schools teach severely disabled students, public schools do not have the the resources to properly educate them. Some do have full time aides, but the aides are not teachers and they are there to monitor health or safety concerns; usually they are minimum wage jobs, but not in all the cases.
 
School resources differ significantly among the various districts, much like resources differ amongst communities. Services provided to students with IEPs differ accordingly.
 
Unfortunately; am well aware of how schools teach severely disabled students, public schools do not have the the resources to properly educate them. Some do have full time aides, but the aides are not teachers and they are there to monitor health or safety concerns; usually they are minimum wage jobs, but not in all the cases.
More BS.

Public school aides make roughly $17 an hour. They have to be state certified. To say that private schools are equiped and public schools are not is just flat out silly. You are making an of yourself and I'd suggest you stop.
 
I'd suggest trying to not be so obtuse. The Catholic schools, especially those sized in football's DII and below, are in no position to pick and choose who they accept as long as the bill is paid. You said it yourself, "if not for vouchers, TCC would probably be closed."

As much as we all love football, there is far more to the world.
To the best of my knowledge (at least till 2017 when my last kid graduated) McNicholas did not accept EDchoice vouchers. That may have changed but I’ve never heard it has. The HS is in Mt. Washington neighborhood with plenty of voucher eligible students within a few miles. McNick is probably above average in athletics despite not “ taking advantage “ of this option…I think most every other GCL Coed school does.
 
To answer your question no.

The state Supreme Court of Ohio has ruled 4 times that the way we fund our schools is illegal (property tax). Now, with the expansion of vouchers, MY property tax, which is meant for MY district, actually leaves to help prop up a supposedly private school outside of my district. Then there is the question of how much public dollars triggers compliance like all public schools? As of today, they actually get to use public dollars as scholarships and still pick and choose who walks through their doors.

The solution is simple. Either eliminate EdChoice OR make the private schools abide by everything their public counterparts must and we will have a level playing field. Right now, it is not even close.

IB, I agree with most of what you are saying, but don't think the Private Schools you mention are turning anyone away upfront - may kick them out for behavior or refusal to attempt doing any school work after gaining entrance.

But with 1/2 empty schools the private schools aren't turning any $$$ away. Since they are not held to the same standard when it comes to services for severe disabilities it is more likely that the parent - not the schools is determining the path for their child.

I don't want to fold laundry (private school)........so I have done a bad job or refused to do it for years (private school).......now I don't have to ever fold laundry (result of parental choice).

Outcome is the same (parents don't consider private schools for severe disabilities)......but I have not heard of anyone failing to get admitted to a private school in the last 8-10 years like I had heard about prior to EdChoice.
 
Can't paint w/ too broad a brush. Some private schools remain very selective with their academic/admissions standards, some do not, and some are "selectively selective" (exceptions for some, not for all).
 
Can't paint w/ too broad a brush. Some private schools remain very selective with their academic/admissions standards, some do not, and some are "selectively selective" (exceptions for some, not for all).

True.

Was just speaking about what I observed. A small local private school had a student with Downs Syndrome - if that student got in I don't think they were turning higher functioning students away when they had open classroom space.

Of course there is a difference between a law and an arbitrary policy as well as public disclosure and accountability vs closed books.
 
I am all for separate Public and Private tournaments.

The schools could then choose who they want to play during the regular season. The only sport that would be difficult to schedule is the big one - football because of league play and lack of open dates. Plus, the Friday Night Lights would not be as special with longer bus rides and empty visitor stands.

Most of the good public school programs love the challenge and experience of playing good private school teams and vice versa. So that will continue during the regular season. Most of the kids and families know each other and compete on the same travel/club/AAU teams anyway and they want to compete vs their peers. They don't want to add any more 22-0 baseball games, 84-30 basketball games, 12-0 soccer games etc.
 
I'd suggest trying to not be so obtuse. The Catholic schools, especially those sized in football's DII and below, are in no position to pick and choose who they accept as long as the bill is paid. You said it yourself, "if not for vouchers, TCC would probably be closed."

As much as we all love football, there is far more to the world.
To the best of my knowledge (at least till 2017 when my last kid graduated) McNicholas did not accept EDchoice vouchers. That may have changed but I’ve never heard it has. The HS is in Mt. Washington neighborhood with plenty of voucher eligible students within a few miles. McNick is probably above average in athletics despite not “ taking advantage “ of this option…I think most every other GCL Coed school does.
 
IB, I agree with most of what you are saying, but don't think the Private Schools you mention are turning anyone away upfront - may kick them out for behavior or refusal to attempt doing any school work after gaining entrance.

But with 1/2 empty schools the private schools aren't turning any $$$ away. Since they are not held to the same standard when it comes to services for severe disabilities it is more likely that the parent - not the schools is determining the path for their child.

I don't want to fold laundry (private school)........so I have done a bad job or refused to do it for years (private school).......now I don't have to ever fold laundry (result of parental choice).

Outcome is the same (parents don't consider private schools for severe disabilities)......but I have not heard of anyone failing to get admitted to a private school in the last 8-10 years like I had heard about prior to EdChoice.
I know of cases. Not at the school you are referring but others.

Downsyndrome is one thing. Every kid that walks through the door at an area public who speaks Arabic or Spanish must be accomodated. Kids in wheelchairs must be accomodated.

The voucher does not pick up the total cost which is the catch here. Every school has a different model but they all have a figure which is their budgeted cost per student. There is only so much endowment money to ensure the kids that run fast and jump high get subsidized on the remaining cost after voucher.

No one can explain away the numbers I present when it comes to TCC. That does not just happen organically. Especially when one considers every other sport outside of football and basketball has suffered greatly in terms of numbers and talent.

Regardless, you make my point. We are arbitrarily handing over taxpayer dollars to a private institution that does not have to open up their books and explain their method. Make the rules the same across the board and I would have far less of a problem with it.
 
Most of the good public school programs love the challenge and experience of playing good private school teams and vice versa. So that will continue during the regular season.
Fortunately, it will also continue in postseason play!
 
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