Region 4 Semi-Finals: Elder(10-2) vs. Lakota West(12-0)

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PURPLE REIGN

Well-known member
You have a strange obsession with Taft. No kids at Taft are making a difference at Elder. Taft will get beaten like a drum by Wyoming this week. I don't think those kids are what Elder needs or wants.
I disagree. It has nothing to do with Taft and everything to do with taking advantage of Elder's location in the city of Cincinnati and access to dozens of CPS players who could make a difference.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
You have a strange obsession with Taft. No kids at Taft are making a difference at Elder. Taft will get beaten like a drum by Wyoming this week. I don't think those kids are what Elder needs or wants.

What? Taft has some players. Would any consider leaving the west end for Elder? I don't know. They get recruited regardless if they go to Taft or Elder. The upside for them would be getting a chance to play for a bigger/better program.

Elias Rudolph has an offer from Ohio St., but he wouldn't make a difference for Elder vs. LW? He would have shut down all the edge runs LW had last week and get some pressure on Bolden. Tayshawn Banks has offer from Boston College, but he wouldn't make a difference for Elder? He matches up with any top WR in Ohio. Elder defense could probably do a lot more to create pressure with a shut down corner, or afford to spy Bolden.

Also, Taft only lost to Wyoming 20-0 in the regular season. That is hardly getting "beaten" like a drum. How did CJ Hester end up at Wyoming by the way?
 

Omar

Well-known member
You have a strange obsession with Taft. No kids at Taft are making a difference at Elder. Taft will get beaten like a drum by Wyoming this week. I don't think those kids are what Elder needs or wants.
Overall the depth isnt there, but they have some great individual talent. Tayshawn Banks is a D1 FS, he would make a huge impact.

Elder absolutely needs someone with that level of athleticism.
 

Omar

Well-known member
That 2012 was built for success in November also - strong OL and big bruising RB. Their defensive front 7 was strong as well. They should have beaten Colerain that year.

Things also broke extremely odd throughout the state that year. Moeller finished 3rd or 4th in the GCL, but ended up representing R4. The other state rep was Toledo Whitmer, not Ed's, Ignatius or Mentor. It was about as wide open as I can remember with the usual suspects all bowing out early.
Ramstetter was also dominating. That Colerain game is still one of the best individual performances I’ve seen from a WR at the HS level.
 

Omar

Well-known member
I disagree. It has nothing to do with Taft and everything to do with taking advantage of Elder's location in the city of Cincinnati and access to dozens of CPS players who could make a difference.
That’s exactly what it is. Literally just 1-2 per class elevates the program’s ceiling a significant degree.
 

JElder

Well-known member
What? Taft has some players. Would any consider leaving the west end for Elder? I don't know. They get recruited regardless if they go to Taft or Elder. The upside for them would be getting a chance to play for a bigger/better program.

Elias Rudolph has an offer from Ohio St., but he wouldn't make a difference for Elder vs. LW? He would have shut down all the edge runs LW had last week and get some pressure on Bolden. Tayshawn Banks has offer from Boston College, but he wouldn't make a difference for Elder? He matches up with any top WR in Ohio. Elder defense could probably do a lot more to create pressure with a shut down corner, or afford to spy Bolden.

Also, Taft only lost to Wyoming 20-0 in the regular season. That is hardly getting "beaten" like a drum. How did CJ Hester end up at Wyoming by the way?
CORRECT!!! Taft and West High have kids from and individual basis that would help Elder immediately. I'm not sure how Taft losing as a team to Wyoming has any bearing on Elder being able to get some of those individual players into the program to help supplement what they already have.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
You guys keep thinking that high profile D-1 guys make a huge difference. Most of the time they actually hinder a team, it is rare that a team full of D-1 dudes actually make a run. Part of Elder's success is that they truly put team above individual.

But I know most don't agree with that, and that's fine.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
You guys keep thinking that high profile D-1 guys make a huge difference. Most of the time they actually hinder a team, it is rare that a team full of D-1 dudes actually make a run. Part of Elder's success is that they truly put team above individual.

But I know most don't agree with that, and that's fine.

Yeah, Jacob James, Luke Kandra, Joe Royer really hindered Elder's 2019 D1 State Runner-up team. I guess they would be state champions without them.

If Elder wants to get over the hump of Region 4 more than once a decade, it will take some more talent to get there.
 

Omar

Well-known member
You guys keep thinking that high profile D-1 guys make a huge difference. Most of the time they actually hinder a team, it is rare that a team full of D-1 dudes actually make a run. Part of Elder's success is that they truly put team above individual.

But I know most don't agree with that, and that's fine.
What??? They absolutely make a difference. Look at West & Moeller. It’s not necessarily a requirement to be an extremely good HS player, but the odds are a lot better.

The difference in ability stood out vs West. Throws Schoster normally completes we’re batted down or deflected bc their DBs could close those passing windows much faster than any other Secondary they played. That Fraction of a second speed wise made a gigantic difference.
 
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Omar

Well-known member
CORRECT!!! Taft and West High have kids from and individual basis that would help Elder immediately. I'm not sure how Taft losing as a team to Wyoming has any bearing on Elder being able to get some of those individual players into the program to help supplement what they already have.
And it doesn’t have to be just Taft or West High. There’s a Freshman starting at WR & CB from Taylor that would be a big playmaker at Elder in the future. They got lucky to get Harmeling from St Catherine and likely some kids coming in from Victory, but they need a more consistent supply of fast athletes at the skill positions.
 

adselder09

Well-known member
You have a strange obsession with Taft. No kids at Taft are making a difference at Elder. Taft will get beaten like a drum by Wyoming this week. I don't think those kids are what Elder needs or wants.
You may be right about their matchup this week, but their CB Banks is a stud. Also Tyler Williams is quietly building a very good football program down there. They've beaten two GCL-CoEd teams in back-to-back weeks in Alter and McNicholas.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
You may be right about their matchup this week, but their CB Banks is a stud. Also Tyler Williams is quietly building a very good football program down there. They've beaten two GCL-CoEd teams in back-to-back weeks in Alter and McNicholas.

Elias Rudolph has 16.5 sacks this year and has an offer from Ohio State.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
And he gets maybe 5 sacks if he played at Elder. It's pretty easy to tear it up in sacks playing in the CMAC where nobody has any lineman.

He would have just as many or more at Elder. Around half their games, he probably played 3 quarters or less due to blowouts/running clock. Also, some of the teams on their schedule are run heavy offenses. Wyoming passed only 10 times with 27 rushes. He had a .5 sack and 2 TFL against Wyoming who you say is going to beat them like a drum this weekend.

CMAC website also shows they haven't entered defensive stats the last 3 games. He is likely above 20 sacks on the year.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
He would have just as many or more at Elder. Around half their games, he probably played 3 quarters or less due to blowouts/running clock. Also, some of the teams on their schedule are run heavy offenses. Wyoming passed only 10 times with 27 rushes. He had a .5 sack and 2 TFL against Wyoming who you say is going to beat them like a drum this weekend.
You are proving my point. He had . 5 sack against Wyoming. You think he's going to tear it up against the teams Elder has played?
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
You are proving my point. He had . 5 sack against Wyoming. You think he's going to tear it up against the teams Elder has played?

A .5 sack and 2 TFL where he was probably double teamed every play and they only threw 10 passes. So, he basically had a sack 10% of time. Against a team that threw the ball 20 or 30 times that's 2 or 3 sacks a game.

Yes, I do think he would have at least 16 sacks if playing with Elder.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
A .5 sack and 2 TFL where he was probably double teamed every play and they only threw 10 passes. So, he basically had a sack 10% of time. Against a team that threw the ball 20 or 30 times that's 2 or 3 sacks a game.

Yes, I do think he would have at least 16 sacks if playing with Elder.
I see your point, just disagree that he'd have anywhere close to that success playing in the GCL.
 

Omar

Well-known member
A .5 sack and 2 TFL where he was probably double teamed every play and they only threw 10 passes. So, he basically had a sack 10% of time. Against a team that threw the ball 20 or 30 times that's 2 or 3 sacks a game.

Yes, I do think he would have at least 16 sacks if playing with Elder.
It would be great to have a stud like Rudolph at DE. However, Elder can find really good pass rushers in their Feeder system. What they have difficulty finding are explosive WRs/RBs and shutdown corners. Banks might not be as highly recruited, but he’d add more value to Elder.
 

ElderHSfan02

Well-known member
I see your point, just disagree that he'd have anywhere close to that success playing in the GCL.

I'm just saying he would have helped Elder. Elder was good on dline, but against an elite team like West, Moeller, Ed's, he would have helped.

It goes back to my original point. Having a good team year in and year out is great. Elder is a top program. To get over the hump of Region 4 more than once a decade, they need more talent.
 

TR1982

Active member
You have a strange obsession with Taft. No kids at Taft are making a difference at Elder. Taft will get beaten like a drum by Wyoming this week. I don't think those kids are what Elder needs or wants.
Those kids don't all go on to play for Taft. Those youth programs were simply using the stadium for their playoff games. These kids go to school all over. So I think his point was why would Elder not extend the olive branch to host these playoff games, and show off their facilities to boot. All GCL school have a way they go about getting kids to their school, and this suggestion clearly isn't in line with what Elder does so don't expect a change anytime soon.
 

TR1982

Active member
And he gets maybe 5 sacks if he played at Elder. It's pretty easy to tear it up in sacks playing in the CMAC where nobody has any lineman.
He definitely would impact the way a team had to gameplan. Having to take time to account for a player like him frees up other players to make plays. So yeah may not have beaucoup sacks, but would still make an impact. You acting like he wouldn't be a factor at any GCL school. At X if you had him Hammond and Kattus on DL good luck containing all three and if you did the LB's would feast. Same logic would apply to Elder, Moe. Or LaSalle.
 

EHS 2001

Moderator
So I think his point was why would Elder not extend the olive branch to host these playoff games, and show off their facilities to boot. All GCL school have a way they go about getting kids to their school, and this suggestion clearly isn't in line with what Elder does so don't expect a change anytime soon.
Elder hosted youth football games in 2019 and has offered to host similar leagues every year since.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Elder hosted youth football games in 2019 and has offered to host similar leagues every year since.
That’s immediately what I thought of when I saw the article. It’s a good way to market the school without bending any rules or compromising their ethics.
 

JElder

Well-known member
And he gets maybe 5 sacks if he played at Elder. It's pretty easy to tear it up in sacks playing in the CMAC where nobody has any lineman.
The kid is 6'4" and 225lbs with offers from OSU, Clemson, Arkansas etc etc. he is a 4 star and ranked #3 player in Ohio and the #11 edge rusher in the country.
 

CincyHSFootballFan

Well-known member
Everything everyone is saying is so right except for cincifbfan. Most of us have been saying this for years, just not for sports, but to diversify the school. Whatever Elder is doing to do so, which I can see that they are trying, is not good enough. I think it is time to as within the rules as possible, to start targeting kids from CPS from an athletic standpoint. Start sending coaches to games, whatever is allowed.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Everything everyone is saying is so right except for cincifbfan. Most of us have been saying this for years, just not for sports, but to diversify the school. Whatever Elder is doing to do so, which I can see that they are trying, is not good enough. I think it is time to as within the rules as possible, to start targeting kids from CPS from an athletic standpoint. Start sending coaches to games, whatever is allowed.
They’re trying but need better results.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
The kid is 6'4" and 225lbs with offers from OSU, Clemson, Arkansas etc etc. he is a 4 star and ranked #3 player in Ohio and the #11 edge rusher in the country.
And Elder has 2 Dlineman that are about the same build as him. If your wanting D-1 recruits, then I'd be asking why doesn't Elder have very many...... They have dudes that pass the "eye" test with their size. They have numerous guys that are 6'4" and over. Is the coaching staff not developing them enough? Is the weight program lacking? Is the staff getting these boys out to camps? Or is it maybe I'm right in that teams with loads of D-1 recruits wind up being detrimental to the team as a whole.

The schools with probably the most recruits in the area are Winton Woods and Withrow, and guess what, both are at home like Elder. And both would have gotten beat way, way worse than Elder did in any of Elder's losses.

Getting a few D-1 guys doesn't suddenly turn you in to a state champ. Sorry, that's simply not how it works. It takes a whole team buying in, great coaching, and quite a bit of luck, especially in Region 4.
 

PURPLE REIGN

Well-known member
And Elder has 2 Dlineman that are about the same build as him. If your wanting D-1 recruits, then I'd be asking why doesn't Elder have very many...... They have dudes that pass the "eye" test with their size. They have numerous guys that are 6'4" and over. Is the coaching staff not developing them enough? Is the weight program lacking? Is the staff getting these boys out to camps? Or is it maybe I'm right in that teams with loads of D-1 recruits wind up being detrimental to the team as a whole.

The schools with probably the most recruits in the area are Winton Woods and Withrow, and guess what, both are at home like Elder. And both would have gotten beat way, way worse than Elder did in any of Elder's losses.

Getting a few D-1 guys doesn't suddenly turn you in to a state champ. Sorry, that's simply not how it works. It takes a whole team buying in, great coaching, and quite a bit of luck, especially in Region 4.
Not sure I am following... Being D1 is football is rare. Id guess less than 1% of high school football players get there. On a GCL team or GMC team, that number is probably less than 5%.

You think Elder is intentionally preventing kids from going D1 because it's detrimental to the team? This is crazy.

The reality is most Elder players do not have the talent. And if they have the talent, they do not have the size. And if they have the talent and the size, they do not have the speed. You need all three.

Elder (and every team) is always a better team when they have multiple kids with D1 talent. Not even sure how this is a point of contention.
 

Pantherontheporch

Well-known member
And Elder has 2 Dlineman that are about the same build as him. If your wanting D-1 recruits, then I'd be asking why doesn't Elder have very many...... They have dudes that pass the "eye" test with their size. They have numerous guys that are 6'4" and over. Is the coaching staff not developing them enough? Is the weight program lacking? Is the staff getting these boys out to camps? Or is it maybe I'm right in that teams with loads of D-1 recruits wind up being detrimental to the team as a whole.

The schools with probably the most recruits in the area are Winton Woods and Withrow, and guess what, both are at home like Elder. And both would have gotten beat way, way worse than Elder did in any of Elder's losses.

Getting a few D-1 guys doesn't suddenly turn you in to a state champ. Sorry, that's simply not how it works. It takes a whole team buying in, great coaching, and quite a bit of luck, especially in Region 4.
To follow up on Purple Reign, I'm no expert on football, so please explain to me what I am missing.
Let's say you have a kid who has all the D-I or even Power 5 (for now) measurables. Not only that but he is eminently coachable, is very disciplined on the field in that he always sticks to his assignments and never free lances, has great instincts, and is a great teammate in the locker room. He is a quick learner and works hard off the field, lifts like a madman. He says "Sir" and "Ma'am." So not only does he have great physical attributes, great talent, and a great attitude, he is not a prima donna.
How would several or even more of these kinds of players be detrimental to a team as a whole?
 
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