One Big Beautiful Bill

IVCguy said:
Lol. I'm not sure I look at him as my daddy, but that analogy has been used and I just used it to make a point.

I strongly disagree with you on raising taxes. You either believe that lower taxes increase revenues to the treasury or you believe higher taxes do that. I don't think there is even a question. It is the former. Works every time it is tried.

What happens is that when people who want higher taxes because they like government criticize tax cuts, they point out the budget deficits and increased debt that followed. But that is because the govt consistently takes everything it takes in and spends 50% more than the revenue increase.

Confiscating higher and higher amounts of people's money makes that money economically less dynamic by a factor of 4, limits growth, and gives you unlivable places like NY and California. I mean, this has been done by socialists, communists, social welfare states with mixed economies, and democratic states in the US and it produces the same effect everywhere it is tried in proportion to the degree it is tried.

Whatever you tax, you discourage and limit. So, think about how that relates to personal and family income and wealth.

I need to hear an explanation of how higher taxes are a positive macro economic move (taking money out of private hands, running it through the costs of a bloated bureaucracy, and turning back cents on the dollar into the economy after redistribution) or how it benefits individuals and families. It's nonsense. It could only be true if government was a multiplier and enhancer of the dollars it collects - which we know it isn't.

What we need is a low tax policy with a growth economy, and a shrinking of govt in general with a corresponding cut in spending. That's the prescription. If your family is running deficits, you have to increase income and cut spending to get to 0 deficit. That law applies here, but we have politicians who have ignored it for decades - and they are still doing it.

But if you are running deficits, how does limiting economic growth and impoverishing citizens with high taxes help the overall well-being of the country?
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Exactly. We have a spending problem in this country, not a revenue problem. The government brings in plenty of revenue, which they then turn around and spend on Sesame Street in Iraq and lesbian poetry readings in Bulgaria.

that anyone thinks giving them more tax dollars to waste is the right answer is misguided.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
“Unthinkable places to live such as California or New York” - last I checked California would have the 5th largest economy in the world if it were its own country and oh, about 40 million population. New York is still a financial hub of not only the US but the world. Now I agree California is not popular for big corporations but people simply choose to live there, California does not necessarily have to entice businesses to come.

I am not for raising taxes a large amount and the reduction of the corporate tax during Trumps 1st term was definitely needed but to a point where Amazon paid zero fed tax for I believe 2 years - no, not quite that much. Did trickle down economics work in the 1980’s? No. Two things need to occur to truly balance the budget and chip away at the $34+ trillion deficit:
1) a ___% reduction in Federal spending across the board. Let each department decide what/where to cut or eliminate
2) a ___% increase of tax of some sort. I talking about a 1-3% increase, nothing crazy. American got into this mess and the only way to get out of it or reduce it is to pay for it.

If your kid came to you asking for $$$ to pay off some bills & so the could increase the expenditures from the prior year and oh, by the way want to cut back on hours worked during the week - you would give imaging swift kick in the rear.
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People are fleeing NY and Cali. Cali is the homeless shite on the sidewalk capital of America. And if the Commie gets elected in NYC it was nice knowing you Big Apple.

If you have an aversion to deficits and wasteful government projects I sure wouldn't be touting Cali as an example of how to govern.

Let each department determine their own cuts? Yeah that should be effective. They piss money away now so they can justify a bigger budget next year. They aren't voluntarily making any meaningful cuts. Its why you need something like DOGE to make the cuts for them.
 
y2h said:
People are fleeing NY and Cali. Cali is the homeless shite on the sidewalk capital of America. And if the Commie gets elected in NYC it was nice knowing you Big Apple.

If you have an aversion to deficits and wasteful government projects I sure wouldn't be touting Cali as an example of how to govern.

Let each department determine their own cuts? Yeah that should be effective. They piss money away now so they can justify a bigger budget next year. They aren't voluntarily making any meaningful cuts. Its why you need something like DOGE to make the cuts for them.
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If anyone knows anything about a crap hole, it’s you - living in/around Cleveland and following Cleveland professional sports teams makes you qualified to speak on it.

California is fine & will be fine, SoCal having incredible weather means there is always someone willing to move there, especially either young dreamers or successful retirees.

As for a DOGE or a fiat ___ % cut across the board, yes I prefer the latter. The ___ % is not a suggestion but a requirement that each department would be forced to do so your argument is illogical. A department should be able to decide on what to cut better than a small group of computer nerds. I would hope a department would not choose to cut nuclear weapons inspectors or people currently working on bird flu & other dangerous viruses. Example: Would you be a better decision maker on which linebackers makes the Browns roster or the linebackers coaches?
 
joesports said:
I can show you a 100 site that show that trickle down does not work … tax cuts don’t increase revenue … just keep believing the Republican fairy tales while the rich get richer … and the gap between the rich and the poor gets wider … when did the gap start widening … in the 1980’s when Ronny convinced you that major tax cuts for the rich would help everyone … fairy tale!!!

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Even if true, there is no compelling reason to increase taxes. There is no compelling reason to increase spending beyond what the current tax revenue is. Tell us what the tax rate should be?
 
joesports said:
I can show you a 100 site that show that trickle down does not work … tax cuts don’t increase revenue … just keep believing the Republican fairy tales while the rich get richer … and the gap between the rich and the poor gets wider … when did the gap start widening … in the 1980’s when Ronny convinced you that major tax cuts for the rich would help everyone … fairy tale!!!

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Lol.

Now you are going to conflate across the board tax cuts with trickle down?

This is the problem with leftist economics. It fails to recognize common sense truths. It depends on how you are defining "trickle down", but on a very basic level, money can't move from people who don't have it to those who do have it. It can ONLY, by definition and logic, move from those who do have it to those who don't.

This movement of money happens in two general ways: 1) through a series of voluntary exchanges of products,services, or labor 2) the government confiscates the money from those who have it and then redistributes it to those who don't.

One of those works really well and benefits the most people while the other produces scarcity, poverty, misery, and death.

Keep in mind that their are lies, damned lies, and statistics - or we can include your "100 graphs that prove" Marxist lies.
 
IVCguy said:
Lol.

Now you are going to conflate across the board tax cuts with trickle down?

This is the problem with leftist economics. It fails to recognize common sense truths. It depends on how you are defining "trickle down", but on a very basic level, money can't move from people who don't have it to those who do have it. It can ONLY, by definition and logic, move from those who do have it to those who don't.

This movement of money happens in two general ways: 1) through a series of voluntary exchanges of products,services, or labor 2) the government confiscates the money from those who have it and then redistributes it to those who don't.

One of those works really well and benefits the most people while the other produces scarcity, poverty, misery, and death.

Keep in mind that their are lies, damned lies, and statistics - or we can include your "100 graphs that prove" Marxist lies.
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A) It is not across the board tax cuts when one group is getting significantly more or higher tax cuts.
B) You basically saying what I said … trickle down economics is a fairytale … thanks for the help
C) even though we both agree that trickle down economics don’t work … it does not stop the Republicans from selling the lie when they want to give cut taxes … especially for the upper end.
D) I am not surprised you are not a big fan of statistics (facts) … they are only used to prove the lies you believe are just that lies!

Thanks for the help … I couldn’t have said it better!
 
joesports said:
A) It is not across the board tax cuts when one group is getting significantly more or higher tax cuts.
B) You basically saying what I said … trickle down economics is a fairytale … thanks for the help
C) even though we both agree that trickle down economics don’t work … it does not stop the Republicans from selling the lie when they want to give cut taxes … especially for the upper end.
D) I am not surprised you are not a big fan of statistics (facts) … they are only used to prove the lies you believe are just that lies!

Thanks for the help … I couldn’t have said it better!
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Why do you call Donal Trump a King? What school district do you teach in?

Joe is living in a fairytale world.
 
joesports said:
A) It is not across the board tax cuts when one group is getting significantly more or higher tax cuts.
B) You basically saying what I said … trickle down economics is a fairytale … thanks for the help
C) even though we both agree that trickle down economics don’t work … it does not stop the Republicans from selling the lie when they want to give cut taxes … especially for the upper end.
D) I am not surprised you are not a big fan of statistics (facts) … they are only used to prove the lies you believe are just that lies!

Thanks for the help … I couldn’t have said it better!
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Of course people with more of a tax burden receive the biggest break. If I owe the government 100 dollars and you owe 1000 dollars and the tax burden is cut by ×% you will receive the greater benefit but we both got our taxes cut.

Trickle down is the essence of capitalism. Poor people don't employ others, people with money employ others.

I've never understood the disdain for "rich" people. Its something to aspire to rather than hate. I don't begrudge anyone what their god given talents and ambition brought them.
 
y2h said:
Of course people with more of a tax burden receive the biggest break. If I owe the government 100 dollars and you owe 1000 dollars and the tax burden is cut by ×% you will receive the greater benefit but we both got our taxes cut.

Trickle down is the essence of capitalism. Poor people don't employ others, people with money employ others.

I've never understood the disdain for "rich" people. Its something to aspire to rather than hate. I don't begrudge anyone what their god given talents and ambition brought them.
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Nothing but jealousy. The people that hate the rich are just angry at their personal failures.
 
y2h said:
Of course people with more of a tax burden receive the biggest break. If I owe the government 100 dollars and you owe 1000 dollars and the tax burden is cut by ×% you will receive the greater benefit but we both got our taxes cut.

Trickle down is the essence of capitalism. Poor people don't employ others, people with money employ others.

I've never understood the disdain for "rich" people. Its something to aspire to rather than hate. I don't begrudge anyone what their god given talents and ambition brought them.
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I don’t hate the rich … but most of our tax breaks are for the rich … this is what I disagree with most … they don’t need to get most of the tax breaks … let them create their wealth under the same system as everyone else.
 
joesports said:
I don’t hate the rich … but most of our tax breaks are for the rich … this is what I disagree with most … they don’t need to get most of the tax breaks … let them create their wealth under the same system as everyone else.
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They dont get most of the tax breaks. You are twisting raw numbers. Show me the percentage of what each bracket pays and tell me who is getting the breaks. And who are you to say who does or does not need a tax break?
 
D4fan said:
It's pretty obvious by now, the people demand a deficit. They will not be happy until every possible dollar is spent on social causes that they deem necessary or beneficial. So we accept the situation that the debt will be ever expanding, taxes therefore will never go away completely. Politicians are expected to overspend on causes the people want. Failure to overspend will likely result in removal from office from the financially conservative politician and their replacement will do the will of the people and overspend.

This is where Trump has it figured out. Do not cut spending, but rather, change who benefits from these deficit dollars. The rich are still going to be on the hook for paying for this deficit spending. The top 1% pay something like 70% of federal taxes. That's not going to change any time soon.
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We've only just begun. I share much of your cynicism, though.
 
Costa said:
They dont get most of the tax breaks. You are twisting raw numbers. Show me the percentage of what each bracket pays and tell me who is getting the breaks. And who are you to say who does or does not need a tax break?
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The major legit inequity in America's taxation is executive compensation taxed as a capital gain. Yet it remains ignored. It's as much of a political third rail as SS.
 
19AL63 said:
and a republican controlled Congress
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And the R’s control Congress now as the did during the first two years of Trumps first term.

The difference is Clinton allowed/made it happen. Again, I’m not a fan of Clinton and I did not vote for him either time but it is what it is. What’s the old saying, scoreboard don’t lie. Clinton had a 4 year run of a balanced budget. That’s not happening in the Big Beautiful Bill nor did it happen during Trumps first term.
 
Hammerdrill said:
Rich people and their activities pay more taxes than you ever will. Your inability to post coherent thoughts suggests to me that you likely do not pay income taxes to the federal government.
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The big beautiful hand out makes private jet purchases 100% tax deductible and you’re blabbing about who is not paying taxes. MAGAs are so f’ing dumb.
 
IVCguy said:
Lol.

Now you are going to conflate across the board tax cuts with trickle down?

This is the problem with leftist economics. It fails to recognize common sense truths. It depends on how you are defining "trickle down", but on a very basic level, money can't move from people who don't have it to those who do have it. It can ONLY, by definition and logic, move from those who do have it to those who don't.

This movement of money happens in two general ways: 1) through a series of voluntary exchanges of products,services, or labor 2) the government confiscates the money from those who have it and then redistributes it to those who don't.

One of those works really well and benefits the most people while the other produces scarcity, poverty, misery, and death.

Keep in mind that their are lies, damned lies, and statistics - or we can include your "100 graphs that prove" Marxist lies.
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Joe likely ascribes to the idea that all of the rich are placing their ill gotten gains in their mattresses.
 
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joesports said:
A) It is not across the board tax cuts when one group is getting significantly more or higher tax cuts.
B) You basically saying what I said … trickle down economics is a fairytale … thanks for the help
C) even though we both agree that trickle down economics don’t work … it does not stop the Republicans from selling the lie when they want to give cut taxes … especially for the upper end.
D) I am not surprised you are not a big fan of statistics (facts) … they are only used to prove the lies you believe are just that lies!

Thanks for the help … I couldn’t have said it better!
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Remind me again what you do for a living? Everyone of us here are successful as a result of trickle down.Let me know when you find an employer who is less well off than you are.
 
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WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
And the R’s control Congress now as the did during the first two years of Trumps first term.
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Yeah, "just like" Speaker Ryan, right ?

WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
The difference is Clinton allowed/made it happen. Again, I’m not a fan of Clinton and I did not vote for him either time but it is what it is. What’s the old saying, scoreboard don’t lie. Clinton had a 4 year run of a balanced budget. That’s not happening in the Big Beautiful Bill nor did it happen during Trumps first term.
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Clinton made nothing happen. It was Kasich and Gingerich. You are a clueless, gaslighting buffoon right now.

The balanced budgets "happened to Clinton", he did not "make it happen". What a fool.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
Am unbalanced budget was not Ryan’s fault. Did he do anything or enough to try & balanced the budget? One can say yes to that but use Ryan as the scapegoat for an unbalanced budget during his tenure is B.S.
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What an absolutely redarted comment. Ho Lee Phuc!!

He was the Speaker of the House at the time, for God's sake. You understand nothing at all now, evidently. Just pathetic idiocy from you, all day.
 
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