winbypin
Well-known member
Ok. But you specifically said you want to limit their ability to play in the post season which isn't part of CB or part of a new division.
OHSAA needs to create new divisional placement
- Thread starter Yappi
- Start date
cincyhoops
Well-known member
Counting I got 28 up and 31 down. Still only 59 total which is less than 10%. Division 3 and 4 are on the same sheet so you can't count them twice.
That could be part of a solution since these kids are changing schools each season primarily for the tournament run.
The fact that the OHSAA cannot separate the 2 sheets is an indicator they can make mistakes so I counted the tabs. In all 4 divisions I see they indicate that because of the CB formula 69 total teams have been moved.
The CB is set up to count every player that saw varsity action during the regular season(only if they played) and the players that were on the tournament roster(regardless if the played in the tournament or not. Some teams submit total numbers for 13 players while others submit 21. If they max out the tournament roster at 15 they at lest have 15 to report. If they had 12 kids see minutes during the regular season but 2 sustained injuries that kept them out of the tournament so they dressed 5 jv for tournament, then that team would report on 17
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
The OHSAA has done a solid, consistent job in presenting the state titles across different classifications as being of equal prestige. I’m not sure this idea would really bode well for the future of Ohio HS athletics, since a “promotion” system and the ideology of a ‘top’ division is going to result in naked characterizations of who is good and who is not good.
In a state that has vast open enrollment, with public policy makers candidly expressing they want more kids to be in private schools and will continue to proffer legislation to reach that end, all the while with an increasing share of the state population becoming suburban, this would just widen the distance between athletic have’s and have not’s. (I’d bet dollars to donuts that 48/64 — 3/4’s — of this RPI system would be GWOC, OCC, GCL + Ignatius + Edward + SVSM + Hoban, and some GMC sprinkled in. That may be all fair and fine to some, but the smaller public schools around many of those places would likely stand to lose kids over time.)
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
I wish the championships could stay at equal prestige but I think things have changed and we are heading over a cliff.
People figure out strategies that give them an edge. Every rule that we create makes for a different strategy.
I just want the divisions to provide an opportunity for those that don't have a real opportunity.
Lastly, I would never allow a school to win back to back championships in the same lower division. Win a championship in a lower divison, move up one division and let another team have the same opportunity.
People figure out strategies that give them an edge. Every rule that we create makes for a different strategy.
I just want the divisions to provide an opportunity for those that don't have a real opportunity.
Lastly, I would never allow a school to win back to back championships in the same lower division. Win a championship in a lower divison, move up one division and let another team have the same opportunity.
Excuse me while my head explodes.
winbypin
Well-known member
But it already is part of the rules.
You cannot do that. So if a team wins back to back championships with kids that were juniors and then seniors - the young kids coming up behind them get penalized by being moved up ? That makes no sense. Talent changes yearly and you cannot assume a team is going to be equally good after winning back to back championships. Teams need to play in the division they belong in and people need to just deal with it. If no rules are being broken then it is what it is.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
I'm not assuming any talent level by moving them up. Lower divisions are meant to give all schools a chance at a championship. If your school wins one, you move up one division and allow another team an opportunity. Your school still gets an opportunity but the chance of winning is only slightly lower in one division higher.
I have often expressed exactly your sentiments on here. Why should my son in 9th grade not have the same opportunity to advance as far as his senior brother did when winning the tournament?
I think what Yappi is attempting to point out to those who share our perspective is perhaps the community and school is more important than the individuals who make up the school.
If the community has been blessed to win a title, move the community up. If little brother is a sophomore he would get the chance to play for a title his senior season, unless they win the next division up as well, and have to move up further.
What was the easiest division to win this year? I don't think it would have been division 4. And if you moved Richmond Heights up to D3 next year they could win it and go for a D2 title.
I think VASJ is the first school to win titles in both the large school division and the smallest school division (2013) . Some school would bring in a fab five freshman group at a D4 and run the table by their senior year.
Personally the longer I think about the more I like the idea of RPI or "pool play" from regular season dictating what group you will be placed into. Will each be perceived as equal in merit and prestige? No , but you would also stop this question of if the D4 champ was arguably the best team in Ohio. Team ranked #201 would definatly not be the best. To make such a system work, you would have to leave half to 2/3 of the teams out of the tournament. No reason we should have a D4 comprised of teams 601-800 and find a champion in that group. Also, I can hear the complaints now of how some small school played too tough of a schedule just to blow their ranking so they could win a lower division title.
realball4468
Member
I'm ok with letting the public schools duke it out separately from the non-public schools.
The current competitive balance system could still stay in place.
Maybe non-public gets divided into 2 divisions.
The current competitive balance system could still stay in place.
Maybe non-public gets divided into 2 divisions.
I'm trying to be clear but I guess I'm not. I like the rule that if you change schools but not your residence, you automatically are not eligible for post season play that year. No exceptions.
winbypin
Well-known member
So things like a change in legal custody or s death of an immediate family member should also disqualify the kid from having a complete season? Seems harsh.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
The problem is people always find a loophole or a lawyer to exploit the exception.
Richmond Heights boys basketball: Spartans return to guard-heavy offensive attack
After it came so close to winning the state championship in three of the past four seasons, Richmond Heights finally crossed that off its list.
www.news-herald.com
"While Jones and Barber are returning starters, Richmond Heights only has two other players returning in Michael McWilliams and Demarrius Winters Jr. With a slew of new faces, both coach and players know they need to develop as a unit."
This sums up what went on at RH this year. I don't know how they get away with it, but they do. There was NOT 80% returning players.
CasualFan24
Well-known member
Richmond Hts would have won the state title in all 4 divisions this year.
Change of custody probably means a change of residence. I don't understand how a sister or brother passing forces someone to change schools.
Get away with what ? What rule did they break ? They have open enrollment. So long as those players reside in Richmond Heights there is really nothing that can be done. You not understanding or liking it is not a rules violation.Richmond Heights boys basketball: Spartans return to guard-heavy offensive attack
After it came so close to winning the state championship in three of the past four seasons, Richmond Heights finally crossed that off its list.
"While Jones and Barber are returning starters, Richmond Heights only has two other players returning in Michael McWilliams and Demarrius Winters Jr. With a slew of new faces, both coach and players know they need to develop as a unit."
This sums up what went on at RH this year. I don't know how they get away with it, but they do. There was NOT 80% returning players.
realball4468
Member
2021-22 Richmond Heights
#21 Josiah Harris (Sr) **Played freshman season @ Canton GlenOak
#34, London Maiden (Sr) **Played junior season @ Benedictine
#11, Detric Hearst (Sr) **Played junior season @ Benedictine
Loyal Foster (So) **Transferred to Youngstown Boardman
2022-23 Richmond Heights
#1, De-Erick Barber (So)
#2, Demarris Winters (So)
#5, Jeremy Wilson (Jr) **Played @ Solon in 21-22
#11, Dorian Jones (So)
#22, Hosea Steele Jr. (Jr) **Played @ Cleveland Heights in 21-22
#3, Micheal McWilliams (Jr)
#00 Braylen Salters (Jr) **Played MS basketball @ Bedford High
#10, Chevy Dozier
#12, Joey Emory
#21, Tyson Garner (Jr)
#23, Sonny Emory (Sr)
There are 4 categories
1. Non-Public who don't openly recruit
2. Non-Public who openly recruit
3. Public who don't openly recruit
4. Public who openly recruit
In the metropolitan areas, hopping around from school to school is a normal thing and happens all the time. In the rural areas, it's more taboo and frowned upon...but still does take place form time to time.
#21 Josiah Harris (Sr) **Played freshman season @ Canton GlenOak
#34, London Maiden (Sr) **Played junior season @ Benedictine
#11, Detric Hearst (Sr) **Played junior season @ Benedictine
Loyal Foster (So) **Transferred to Youngstown Boardman
2022-23 Richmond Heights
#1, De-Erick Barber (So)
#2, Demarris Winters (So)
#5, Jeremy Wilson (Jr) **Played @ Solon in 21-22
#11, Dorian Jones (So)
#22, Hosea Steele Jr. (Jr) **Played @ Cleveland Heights in 21-22
#3, Micheal McWilliams (Jr)
#00 Braylen Salters (Jr) **Played MS basketball @ Bedford High
#10, Chevy Dozier
#12, Joey Emory
#21, Tyson Garner (Jr)
#23, Sonny Emory (Sr)
There are 4 categories
1. Non-Public who don't openly recruit
2. Non-Public who openly recruit
3. Public who don't openly recruit
4. Public who openly recruit
In the metropolitan areas, hopping around from school to school is a normal thing and happens all the time. In the rural areas, it's more taboo and frowned upon...but still does take place form time to time.
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winbypin
Well-known member
Ok. But it's a bit of throwing the baby out with the bath water isn't it? More legit transfers under the existing exceptions versus ones bending the rules.
winbypin
Well-known member
Don't know either but who are we to judge?
Excuse me while my head explodes.
yeah I had to reread this 3 times and still don't get it.So a couple of transfers in. No different than Garfield Hts or Cleveland Hts recently. Normal thing that happens all the time. Only difference is they are transferring in to a D4 school and some people are upset I guess.
If Cleveland Hts or Euclid hired Quentin Rogers kids would be going there. Like I have said many times nobody is out here trying to create a D4 dynasty.
The same way baseball players find their way to Walsh Jesuit and wrestlers find their way to St Ed..basketball players are going to migrate to winning programs with reputable coaches. Nothing new.
I'm not upset. Simply perplexed over how other people think small urban districts that are loaded with talent belong in the small school tournament and will encourage better basketball?
I'm just one person, so if the solid beatdowns is what makes your world more enjoyable have at it.
Talent scouts for the rural teams have a way tougher job landing recruits than the small urban districts, but it is what is is, and that's fine by me.
I've never been in favor of a success multiplier or bump, but I think it is the only way to solve things like the RH situation. No idea what is a fair way to create the multiplier, but to completely re-do the classification system or add divisions because of a handful of teams seems like the wrong thing to me.
ShoelessJoe
Active member
My complaint has always been schools being able to attract players from large population areas and playing in small school divisions. Here is my solution to solve this. If a player open enrolls in a school district they do not live in 20% of the enrollment of the district they live in will be added to the school they are attending for divisional assignment purposes. If an athlete moves into the school district after their 9th grade year, 20% is added for the first year then it is dropped. Each school would get a 1 person exemption of the first year 20% add on for basketball and other sports, and a 3 person exemption for football to account for legitimate move ins. A private school district would be defined as the area within a 5 mile radius of the school. For controlled enrollment public schools like Africentric whose school district is defined as the whole city of Columbus they would add 20% of the enrollment of all Columbus City Schools to their actual enrollment. This would penalize public schools that attract a lot of open enrollment athletes and Private Schools that attract athletes from large population areas.