OHSAA needs to create new divisional placement

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
Enrollment is not a good indicator of competitiveness anymore. The time has come to move away from enrollment-based divisions.

I'm perfectly fine with getting rid of all divisions and going with one big tournament. Something needs to change. Sticking to the old way because it is perceived as "fair" has made a mockery of the system.

I don't want to blow up all OHSAA sports but if championship teams in DIV are competitive with championship teams in DI, there is a serious problem.
 
 
I do think they should do an all Division Champ in Boys Basketball.
OHSAA is all about money. Just need two more days. Draw names out of a hat or D1vD3 and D2vD4. Winners play for State Champ!
Even though they would be some of the less followed teams, you might actually get some good attendance, especially in years like this year, because they would be some really good matchups.
 
The problem with the singular division idea is you end up with 48 fewer schools that can win a District Title. There are ~800 high schools with a boys’ basketball team — 64 District Titles are won under the current set-up.

There is absolutely no way a situation where there are fewer seats at the table would get approved or have much support.
 
The problem with the singular division idea is you end up with 48 fewer schools that can win a District Title. There are ~800 high schools with a boys’ basketball team — 64 District Titles are won under the current set-up.
I'm not really in favor of only 1 division, I just don't ever want to see a DIV champion that could arguably beat the DI champion. It is the antithesis of the reason we have divisions.
 
OHSAA is all about money. Just need two more days. Draw names out of a hat or D1vD3 and D2vD4. Winners play for State Champ!
Even though they would be some of the less followed teams, you might actually get some good attendance, especially in years like this year, because they would be some really good matchups.
I would like to see that happen this year but I also think that would make things even worse.
 
Other states use a “success factor” to bump programs up a classification if they are too dominant in their current classification. All of 4 state qualifier teams in DIII should be in DII, they have been the dominant programs for some time. Richmond Heights should at least be in DIII if not DII. Maybe classification should be determined by a combination of number of students, strength of schedule and whether it is open or closed enrollment. I don’t have a problem with 4 divisions but I agree that the classification formula needs to be re-evaluated. There is no perfect formula but some changes are needed.
 
The problem with the singular division idea is you end up with 48 fewer schools that can win a District Title. There are ~800 high schools with a boys’ basketball team — 64 District Titles are won under the current set-up.

There is absolutely no way a situation where there are fewer seats at the table would get approved or have much support.
That depends. If you create a fifth "Super 32" type bracket that is open to every school regardless of division, I could see getting an invite to that tournament of tournaments having a higher value than a district title. I think you could even make that double elimination to make it more attractive to teams that would be selected.

You play out the other divisions as is. It would add a fifth division without watering down the other four too much. And it would also stop some of the complaining coming from these small town areas who think the current set up is unfair.

Ironically, I'm guessing these small town western Ohio posters are some of the most free market capitalists on this site. Now upset that some "urban schools" (Richmond Heights is suburban btw) are capitalizing on the system the OHSAA/Ohio Department of Education has put in place.
 
Simple stop teams from recruiting. Now everybody that says prove recruiting probably never supported a team blown out by a AAU team.
It's not about just recruiting. There are plenty of people passing quality schools in order to go to a powerhouse in their specific sport. The school "recruits itself".

We live in a highly mobile society. School enrollment no longer is highly relevant for the ability to field a successful team.
 
I'm not really in favor of only 1 division, I just don't ever want to see a DIV champion that could arguably beat the DI champion. It is the antithesis of the reason we have divisions.

I think 2001 D3 state champ ASVSM could have arguably beaten St Ignatius and D2 champion. It happens. It doesn't happen regularly. From what I understand RH best players live in the district. One is the son a girls varsity BB coach. They have a great HC.

I just don't see where you draw the line. St Paris Graham in wrestling was a small town power. There are years Marion Local could probably win D5 or D4 state titles in football.

Again, it seems like RH best players are sophomores who were there last year. They got a couple transfers, including one from my alma mater that could have used him. Players transfer all the time, Centerville, Ignatius, SVSM, Lutheran East, lots of schools get transfers.

At the end of the day, I don't like or support cheaters or cheating. But if these kids are living in Richmond Hts or moving before 8th or 9th grade what can you do?

If they aren't.. then there is a competitive balance formula in place already.

If you do an open division for boys basketball fine but there are other sports in OHSAA that need it too.
 

I think 2001 D3 state champ ASVSM could have arguably beaten St Ignatius and D2 champion. It happens. It doesn't happen regularly. From what I understand RH best players live in the district. One is the son a girls varsity BB coach. They have a great HC.

I just don't see where you draw the line. St Paris Graham in wrestling was a small town power. There are years Marion Local could probably win D5 or D4 state titles in football.

Again, it seems like RH best players are sophomores who were there last year. They got a couple transfers, including one from my alma mater that could have used him. Players transfer all the time, Centerville, Ignatius, SVSM, Lutheran East, lots of schools get transfers.

At the end of the day, I don't like or support cheaters or cheating. But if these kids are living in Richmond Hts or moving before 8th or 9th grade what can you do?

If they aren't.. then there is a competitive balance formula in place already.

If you do an open division for boys basketball fine but there are other sports in OHSAA that need it too.
Lol....a "couple transfers" in D4 is a crazy difference compared to all the other D4's that have the same kids that have lived there for 12 years. I hope Richmond Heights kids go home and enjoy their trophy....but it's a joke that they are playing in D4. They pull are basically pulling their team from a population of 3 million plus while they are playing against teams like Crestview that have a population of 3,000 lol
 
Lol....a "couple transfers" in D4 is a crazy difference compared to all the other D4's that have the same kids that have lived there for 12 years. I hope Richmond Heights kids go home and enjoy their trophy....but it's a joke that they are playing in D4. They pull are basically pulling their team from a population of 3 million plus while they are playing against teams like Crestview that have a population of 3,000 lol
No they arent basically pulling their team from a population of 3 million. NEO doesn't have 3 million people. I also don't think Richmond Heights is pulling kids from Westlake, Cuyahoga Falls, or Strongville..do you?.

Why is Richmond Hts CB number only 21 if they have all these transfers and move ins?

The rules place them.in D4 so they belong in D4. There is a reason why we have CB. Schools do get bumped up divisions quite a bit.
 
If I'm not mistaken there are certain states (California maybe?) who have an "open division" that teams can opt into. I've also heard of states where if you win a state title in one division, the next year you automatically get placed in the next division up.

I'm not saying either of those would be good for Ohio, just throwing out options that I've seen/read happening in other states.

In the case of Richmond Heights I understand they get to say "we won a state title!" and there's always lots to be proud of in that regard. But with the obvious talent disparity between Richmond Heights and every other D4 team in Ohio, are they really enjoying winning State Titles by 40? All other schools in D4 could put the 5 best players together to form a team and I'm not sure if that team could beat Richmond Heights..... They are a D1 school playing in the D4 tournament.

What the fix is I do not know, but I do agree with Yappi that there is a serious problem. The attendance continues to drop year after year and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
 
No they arent basically pulling their team from a population of 3 million. NEO doesn't have 3 million people. I also don't think Richmond Heights is pulling kids from Westlake, Cuyahoga Falls, or Strongville..do you?.

Why is Richmond Hts CB number only 21 if they have all these transfers and move ins?

The rules place them.in D4 so they belong in D4. There is a reason why we have CB. Schools do get bumped up divisions quite a bit.
Competitive Balance is a waste of time Very few teams are moved up/down. It's a lot of paperwork for AD's with very minimal action. OHSAA might as well get rid of it and save AD's a lot of time.
 
If I'm not mistaken there are certain states (California maybe?) who have an "open division" that teams can opt into. I've also heard of states where if you win a state title in one division, the next year you automatically get placed in the next division up.

I'm not saying either of those would be good for Ohio, just throwing out options that I've seen/read happening in other states.

In the case of Richmond Heights I understand they get to say "we won a state title!" and there's always lots to be proud of in that regard. But with the obvious talent disparity between Richmond Heights and every other D4 team in Ohio, are they really enjoying winning State Titles by 40? All other schools in D4 could put the 5 best players together to form a team and I'm not sure if that team could beat Richmond Heights..... They are a D1 school playing in the D4 tournament.

What the fix is I do not know, but I do agree with Yappi that there is a serious problem. The attendance continues to drop year after year and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Tradition factor is the answer. I am not sure what the formula is, so many points for every tourney win... or so many points if you win sectional, district, regional, state, etc... and then if you accumulate so many points over a 4 year period (maybe 2 year???) then you are bumped up. I'm sure there is someone way smarter than me and can come up with the particular details, but I would think that a tradition factor makes sense. It would encompass all factors that everyone tries to put their finger on.
 
Use some of the older guidelines. If you transfer to a new school but do not live in the district or designated area, you are not eligible for post season your first year.
 
I'm not sure enrollment has ever been a great indicator of competitiveness in basketball for those that are the best. 2-3 studs and 6-7 guys total is all you really need regardless of division to be very competitive.
The most fair way to sort everyone out probably has to be by sport; what makes sense as a metric in hoops, player movement, might not make sense in a diamond sport, available resources. But then again who has the time and political juice to go about defining all these variations? Cookie cutter methodology will probably continue to be the norm...
 
Use some of the older guidelines. If you transfer to a new school but do not live in the district or designated area, you are not eligible for post season your first year.
Those still exist today. So in this case they didn't change a thing.
 
The most fair way to sort everyone out probably has to be by sport; what makes sense as a metric in hoops, player movement, might not make sense in a diamond sport, available resources. But then again who has the time and political juice to go about defining all these variations? Cookie cutter methodology will probably continue to be the norm...
Agreed here...zero chance of ever seeing any "solution" that is anything but cookie cutter and applied across the board to all sports.
 
Sure. A change of residence is probably the biggest. You want to deny student participation in athletics for families that have a bona fide change of residence?
No, if they have a bona fide change of residence they are fine in the district they live in. Their are students who do not live inside a district but meet one of the exceptions so they are currently allowed to play. I say eliminate the exceptions. Live inside or play where you live.
 
Sure. A change of residence is probably the biggest. You want to deny student participation in athletics for families that have a bona fide change of residence?
Michigan disallows transferring for “athletic purposes” regardless of residence. In reality, it seems like eligibility depends on how many lawyers have kids enrolled.
 
Top