Ohio State University at Collegiate Duals

Does Ohio State have an Identity? What do they do well as a team? Penn State has the poise, which is attributed to Cael. Iowa has the toughness that comes from the Brands Brothers. What does Ohio State bring to the table? I have no doubt the poise and toughness is worth 3 points per match. I don't know which coach would be the answer? With Ohio State's resources they should be able to find him.
I'd love to hear others' opinions on this, but one could say that Ohio State's identity is character, which can be attributed to Coach Ryan. A couple years ago I got to watch a Team USA camp session and after it was finished Coach Kevin Jackson encouraged all the athletes to thank the supporters that were watching. It was early 2021 and people were still being cautious about social distancing so I wouldn't have faulted anyone if they didn't want to shake hands, but the only ones who shook hands with us were all the former Buckeyes or Ohio RTC guys that were at the camp.
 
Bigbeeg I could not agree more. Many top recruits have hit their ceiling in high school. NO coach will be able to get more out of them. Hold backs, maturity etc all play a role. A Big Ten coach has told me more than once recruiting todays wrestler is so complex. It's not just what the wrestler has done on the mat. Frankly it's more outside the wrestling room than inside.
Totally agree. There's so much more to look at outside of the wrestling. You may have a recruit that has dedicated his entire life to nothing but wrestling and has excelled. Then you may have a recruit that has excelled at wrestling, but has had other things on his plate that didn't allow him to give himself entirely to wrestling. So the latter may have a higher ceiling idk? An example I will give is Bradley Eaton. I watched a video where his coach said he was the best athlete he has ever seen. He's not an elite wrestler on the national level. Could he be if he committed entirely to wrestling? What is his ceiling if he commits entirely to wrestling? The thing is there's hundreds of kids out there like that. Sometimes the four time nationally ranked wrestlers are already as good as they get.
 
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Totally agree. There's so much more to look at outside of the wrestling. You may have a recruit that has dedicated his entire life to nothing but wrestling and has excelled. Then you may have a recruit that has excelled at wrestling, but has had other things on his plate that didn't allow him to give himself entirely to wrestling. So the latter may have a higher ceiling idk? An example I will give is Bradley Eaton. I watched a video where his coach said he was the best athlete he has ever seen. He's not an elite wrestler on the national level. Could he be if he committed entirely to wrestling? What is his ceiling if he commits entirely to wrestling? The thing is there's hundreds of kids out there like that. Sometimes the four time nationally ranked wrestlers are already as good as they get.
Funny you should mention Eaton, as I just found out recently, that he is the first Freshman in St Ed's history to earn a varsity letter in 3 sports. He was also the leading tackler on St Ed's State Title team this year. Pretty impressive for a Soph 150lber.
 
Sometimes the four timer nationally ranked wrestler is already as good as he gets.
And I think many times those kids have to learn how to compete week in and week out. That has to be difficult for wrestlers that get only a handful of competitive matches during the season.
I believe that was similar to something Romero said. He only wrestled in season and when you're beating people all the time you don't learn how to compete. He had to learn that in college.
 
And I think many times those kids have to learn how to compete week in and week out. That has to be difficult for wrestlers that get only a handful of competitive matches during the season.
I believe that was similar to something Romero said. He only wrestled in season and when you're beating people all the time you don't learn how to compete. He had to learn that in college.
Kaleb had Football that kept him from doing the Big off Season Wrestling circuit for the most part. The Kids nowadays have way more chances to Wrestle Top Notch competition in season and out than kids of even 20 years ago. It depends on your HS Programs Schedule and your Clubs willingness and ability to travel in the off season. Where there's a will there's a way.
 
Maybe you are a better evaluator of talent than I, but I ’m curious, what have you observed that would lead you to this opinion 2 months into his RS freshman season? Are their holes in his game that I’m just not seeing, because I happen to think that he has huge upside. He’s strong, quick , athletic, and 184 seems to be the right weight for him. He had about the best HS career one could possibly have. He’s having a very good redshirt year @ 7-1 so far with a recent win over Big 10 bronze medalist and AA from Rutgers. Word around the RTC is that he has a great work ethic, he’s a humble kid, and by all accounts a good citizen and a good student.

I get it, he lost Geog- who happens to be also be really good. I get it he lost to Fishback 2 years ago @ Fargo- who is also tremendous.

Let the kid develop, that’s what a redshirt year is for.
I have no doubt the Shumate is a humble and good kid, and I think I haven't gotten out of line with my prediction. It is not like I am dragging the kid and saying he is trash. I wouldn't do that, and I hope he succeeds. I am not just saying that to save face, I genuinely hope that he succeeds and you can tell me I was wrong. I love when people succeed, and I think its bad JuJu to hope for others failures.

With that being said, you asked me why I feel the way I do about his upside in college, and I will give you my reasoning behind it as you asked.

I feel like he is the typical man amongst boys high school success story. He was always so much stronger and physically gifted than his opponents. There is a laundry list of guys with this similar story that are shell-shocked by D1 college wrestling. I do think he is a very good wrestler, I am not saying he didn't develop solid technique. I do think, however, that he has made a career out of physically dominating lesser physically gifted wrestlers. I do think that he has done this in a less than stellar weight class, both locally in Ohio and Nationally. When he did have opportunities with the top guys in the country, he often fell short. I realize he only had 5 losses in high school, but he didn't have a lot of "big wins" either, and all of those losses were to the guys that could test him. His best win in Ohio was McDanel, who beat him the week before at districts. He lost a few times at Ironman, and got thoroughly dominated by Fishback at Fargo, and then watched Fishback win his weight class at Ironman a few months later. He had more losses his senior year than any other year. Not the best trajectory.

As for the start of his RS year, its true that he beat a former AA from Rutgers, but that AA was during the COVID year. I don't really think that win is as huge as it appears. Very good win, but its not an elite win imo. He had close wins over a couple of unheralded guys, one of which was a 3-2 win over a guy who never placed at Ohio High School State, who has a losing college record at Cleveland State, and another 3-1 decision over a non-starter for Northwestern with a career college record of 8-18. Throw in the fact that Geog dominated him in a 6-1 win, and its not going as well as that 7-1 record you threw out there suggests. He has a long way to go to be a competitive Big Ten starter.

Again, this is just my opinion, I never claimed to have all the answers or a crystal ball. I am allowed to have an opinion, just like you are allowed to disagree with me. Fortunately for Shumate, my opinion is not the end all be all, and he gets to write his own story. You are right, I will let him develop. It is just my prediction that he will not develop into what you think he will.
 
Truthfully no, but why would he go out of state to NC State over a “powerhouse” school if they did? But again, maybe they did but doubt it.
NC State has done a fine job recruiting themselves. Wolfpack RTC had grown quite well. And chose a non "powerhouse" school that finished top 10 last year and is now ranked ahead of said "powerhouse".
 
I have no doubt the Shumate is a humble and good kid, and I think I haven't gotten out of line with my prediction. It is not like I am dragging the kid and saying he is trash. I wouldn't do that, and I hope he succeeds. I am not just saying that to save face, I genuinely hope that he succeeds and you can tell me I was wrong. I love when people succeed, and I think its bad JuJu to hope for others failures.

With that being said, you asked me why I feel the way I do about his upside in college, and I will give you my reasoning behind it as you asked.

I feel like he is the typical man amongst boys high school success story. He was always so much stronger and physically gifted than his opponents. There is a laundry list of guys with this similar story that are shell-shocked by D1 college wrestling. I do think he is a very good wrestler, I am not saying he didn't develop solid technique. I do think, however, that he has made a career out of physically dominating lesser physically gifted wrestlers. I do think that he has done this in a less than stellar weight class, both locally in Ohio and Nationally. When he did have opportunities with the top guys in the country, he often fell short. I realize he only had 5 losses in high school, but he didn't have a lot of "big wins" either, and all of those losses were to the guys that could test him. His best win in Ohio was McDanel, who beat him the week before at districts. He lost a few times at Ironman, and got thoroughly dominated by Fishback at Fargo, and then watched Fishback win his weight class at Ironman a few months later. He had more losses his senior year than any other year. Not the best trajectory.

As for the start of his RS year, its true that he beat a former AA from Rutgers, but that AA was during the COVID year. I don't really think that win is as huge as it appears. Very good win, but its not an elite win imo. He had close wins over a couple of unheralded guys, one of which was a 3-2 win over a guy who never placed at Ohio High School State, who has a losing college record at Cleveland State, and another 3-1 decision over a non-starter for Northwestern with a career college record of 8-18. Throw in the fact that Geog dominated him in a 6-1 win, and its not going as well as that 7-1 record you threw out there suggests. He has a long way to go to be a competitive Big Ten starter.

Again, this is just my opinion, I never claimed to have all the answers or a crystal ball. I am allowed to have an opinion, just like you are allowed to disagree with me. Fortunately for Shumate, my opinion is not the end all be all, and he gets to write his own story. You are right, I will let him develop. It is just my prediction that he will not develop into what you think he will.
Valid arguments and we all hope he's successful. BUT, don't minimize the win over Poz. His losses at the NCAA's were to Hidley, TB-1 2-1, in the semi's and a 5-4 loss to Keckeisen for 3rd. Taking 4th behind Brooks and those two is nothing to sniff at. 184 may just be his weight.
 
And I think many times those kids have to learn how to compete week in and week out. That has to be difficult for wrestlers that get only a handful of competitive matches during the season.
I believe that was similar to something Romero said. He only wrestled in season and when you're beating people all the time you don't learn how to compete. He had to learn that in college.
That's an excellent point.
 
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Valid arguments and we all hope he's successful. BUT, don't minimize the win over Poz. His losses at the NCAA's were to Hidley, TB-1 2-1, in the semi's and a 5-4 loss to Keckeisen for 3rd. Taking 4th behind Brooks and those two is nothing to sniff at. 184 may just be his weight.
Very valid argument as well, I will admit that I actually did not dig that deep into his NCAA run. He had a good tournament for sure. Rutgers as a pretty good Freshman at 184 right now, so it remains to be seen where Poz fits into the lineup. He may be forced to 197 and may not fair as well up there. Time will tell.
 
Kaleb had Football that kept him from doing the Big off Season Wrestling circuit for the most part. The Kids nowadays have way more chances to Wrestle Top Notch competition in season and out than kids of even 20 years ago. It depends on your HS Programs Schedule and your Clubs willingness and ability to travel in the off season. Where there's a will there's a way.
I understand Romero's situation and how different wrestling is compared to twenty years ago. I just thought it was an honest and interesting take. I didn't hear him say it, so take it for what it's worth.
 
Does Ohio State have an Identity? What do they do well as a team? Penn State has the poise, which is attributed to Cael. Iowa has the toughness that comes from the Brands Brothers. What does Ohio State bring to the table? I have no doubt the poise and toughness is worth 3 points per match. I don't know which coach would be the answer? With Ohio State's resources they should be able to find him.
Faith
 
The truly great wrestling programs have always had coaches that are bigger than any wrestler that comes into the program. Gable, Cael, Smith, Brands. I don't think we've heard the last of Smith. And I can only imagine what would happen to the OSU wrestling room if Brands or Cael took over that program. I have no doubt things would be different. Idk if we will ever see another coach like Tom Brands? The intensity and passion never stops, add the Olympic gold medal and you have one of a kind. I can't figure out Cael? He seems like a guy that would say act like you've been then before. My point is I hope OSU finds the next great coach that will be bigger than any wrestler that comes into the program.
 
The truly great wrestling programs have always had coaches that are bigger than any wrestler that comes into the program. Gable, Cael, Smith, Brands. I don't think we've heard the last of Smith. And I can only imagine what would happen to the OSU wrestling room if Brands or Cael took over that program. I have no doubt things would be different. Idk if we will ever see another coach like Tom Brands? The intensity and passion never stops, add the Olympic gold medal and you have one of a kind. I can't figure out Cael? He seems like a guy that would say act like you've been then before. My point is I hope OSU finds the next great coach that will be bigger than any wrestler that comes into the program.
I remember someone once mentioned Kolat, current Navy coach would be a good fit when OSU job becomes available
 
I remember someone once mentioned Kolat, current Navy coach would be a good fit when OSU job becomes available
Kolat has said he's not interested in a big school head coach gig. He wants to coach a program not run it.

If the Buckeyes don't get results by the time the "super class" graduates, then TR may start to feel some heat. But I'd say his career at OSU is pretty secure.
 
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