Ohio schoolboys who have gone on to break 4 minutes for one mile

Interesting stuff. I’m a stats nut myself and did a bit of research off the T&F News site.
From 2016 thru 2020, a 5 year span, the only runners to run faster than 3:33.65 were Engels (by 1/100 of a sec), and Matthew Centrowitz.

Colby...
#7 ever on U.S. soil
#5 American on U.S. soil
#17th fastest American ever at 1500 meters (any soil !!)


Here is the All-Time U.S. top 20 at 1500 meters…..We have an OHIO representative, folks!!
Colby Alexander finds himself in mighty good company.

1) Bernard Lagat 3:29.30
2) Sydney Maree 3:29.77
3) Matthew Centrowitz 3:30.40
4) Alan Webb 3:30.54
5) Andrew Wheating 3:30.90
6) Leo Manzano 3:30.98
7) Jim Spivey 3:31.01
8) Steve Holman 3:31.52
9) Steve Scott 3:31.76
10) David Krummenacker 3:31.93
11) Lopez Lomong 3:32.20
12) Evan Jager 3:32.97
13) Jim Ryun 3:33.1 (HT)
14) David Torrence 3:33.23
15) Chris Lukezik 3:33.28
16) Craig Engels 3:33.64
17) COLBY ALEXANDER 3:33.65
18) Seneca Lassiter 3:33.72
19) Paul McMullen 3:33.89
20) Steve Lacy 3:33.99
 
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Interesting, but Tom Byers mile PR of 3:50.84 from the Koblenze meet on 25 Aug 1982 converts to 3:33.74 1500m. I'm going to have to dig into my 1982 T&F News issues to see if they had a 1500m split on that race.
 
Hey JAVMAN83…There is no converting on All-Time lists. So the formula’s don’t come into play. As for having a clock at the 1500 en route, times do count as records that way, but trying to hit a fast 1500 en route to a mile is tough because you start kicking in a mile race much later than you would in a 1500 so you come thru the 1500 slower than you would if racing just a 1500. In that fast indoor race in Boston on 3/3/2019 for example, Johnny Gregorek ran a 3:49 indoor mile. They had a clock at the 1500. He hit 3:35.21 at the 1500. In that same race, Sam Prakel ran 3:50 and hit 3:35.66 thru 1500. Byers more than likely had around 3:35 en route to his 3:50, which is well outside the U.S. all-time top 20 for 1500.

Same holds true the other way round, as well. Just the opposite. Adding 17.5 seconds or so for the final 109 meters may seem like too much time for a guy running sub-4. But in a 1500 race, he would have hit 1500 way faster than he would have if he passed 1500 and still had a whole straightaway to go. He would have begun his kick much sooner.
 
State The Obvious said:
Hey JAVMAN83…There is no converting on All-Time lists. So the formula’s don’t come into play. As for having a clock at the 1500 en route, times do count as records that way, but trying to hit a fast 1500 en route to a mile is tough because you start kicking in a mile race much later than you would in a 1500 so you come thru the 1500 slower than you would if racing just a 1500. In that fast indoor race in Boston on 3/3/2019 for example, Johnny Gregorek ran a 3:49 indoor mile. They had a clock at the 1500. He hit 3:35.21 at the 1500. In that same race, Sam Prakel ran 3:50 and hit 3:35.66 thru 1500. Byers more than likely had around 3:35 en route to his 3:50, which is well outside the U.S. all-time top 20 for 1500.

Same holds true the other way round, as well. Just the opposite. Adding 17.5 seconds or so for the final 109 meters may seem like too much time for a guy running sub-4. But in a 1500 race, he would have hit 1500 way faster than he would have if he passed 1500 and still had a whole straightaway to go. He would have begun his kick much sooner.
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You are referring to ABSOLUTE lists, not comparative, which is what I & Track & Field News keep regarding HS times. No statistician converts upward from the 1500 to the mile precisely because the appointed distance has not been reached. However, in the case of the mile or 2 mile, reasonable conversions can & are made to the 1500/1600/3200 because those distances were reached enroute to the longer performance.

As I stated clearly earlier, my lists & theirs are COMPARATIVE in nature, not absolute. That said, statisticians DO include 1500m & 3000m splits enroute to mile & 2 mile races for ABSOLUTE lists of the 1500 & 3000 when those splits are available via electronic recording.
 
JAVMAN83 said:
You are referring to ABSOLUTE lists, not comparative, which is what I & Track & Field News keep regarding HS times. No statistician converts upward from the 1500 to the mile precisely because the appointed distance has not been reached. However, in the case of the mile or 2 mile, reasonable conversions can & are made to the 1500/1600/3200 because those distances were reached enroute to the longer performance.

As I stated clearly earlier, my lists & theirs are COMPARATIVE in nature, not absolute. That said, statisticians DO include 1500m & 3000m splits enroute to mile & 2 mile races for ABSOLUTE lists of the 1500 & 3000 when those splits are available via electronic recording.
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Hey JAVMAN…Sorry if I offended you. No offense meant. My main point was that Tom Byers, more than likely, split around 3:35 en route to his 3:50 mile, so even if they had a timer set up at 1500, he would have been well off the All-Time top 20 list as it exists today.
 
State The Obvious said:
Hey JAVMAN…Sorry if I offended you. No offense meant. My main point was that Tom Byers, more than likely, split around 3:35 en route to his 3:50 mile, so even if they had a timer set up at 1500, he would have been well off the All-Time top 20 list as it exists today.
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No offense taken. I'm going to dig into my old T&F News issues tomorrow to see if they did have a 1500 recording during Byers' 3:50+ mile.
 
Well, I checked the September 1982 issue of Track & Field News for the results of the Koblenz meet where Byers ran his mile PR. He placed 6th in that race with his 3:50.84 PR, and that made him the #4 American all-time at that moment. Unfortunately, no 1500m enroute times appear to have been recorded :(
 
Here is the updated list of top milers in Ohio History: UPDATED 2/4/22

TOP MILERS IN OHIO HISTORY

1) Tom Byers 3:50.84 run in 1982
2) Sam Prakel 3:50.94 run in 2019 (indoor) **
3) Clayton Murphy 3:51.99 run in 2017
4)Colby Alexander 3:52.84 run in 2022 (indoor)
5) Dave Wottle 3:53.3 (HT) run in 1973 *
6) Cory Leslie 3:53.44 run in 2014
7) Rob Myers 3:53.78 run in 2004
8) Jeff See 3:55.24 run in 2012
9) Steve Foster 3:55.1 (HT) run in 1977
10) Lucas Bons 3:55.45 run in 2021
11) Kevin Ryan 3:55.9 (HT) run in 1983
12) Brannon Kidder 3:56.06 run in 2018
13) Bob Kennedy 3:56.21 run in 1994

* NOTE: Dave Wottle's 3:53.3 was run in a race in Eugene, Oregon at Hayward Field. Pre invited Wottle to come out and race him in a mile. Wottle outkicked Pre for the win in, what at the time, made Wottle the second fastest American of All-Time. Only Jim Ryun was faster at the time. This race is featured in the "Fire On The Track" documentary on Pre.

NOTE: Sam Prakel ran 3:49.98 at the Guardian Mile in 2021. Colby Alexander ran 3:50.28 in the same race. Additionally, Colby Alexander ran 3:50.3 (HT) at the NYRRC 5th Avenue Mile in 2016 and Prakel added a 3:50.6 (HT) at the 2021 5th Ave Mile. Those are the four fastest miles ever run by an Ohioan indoors, outdoors, or on a certified road mile.
 
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FYI - Wottle's run would've made him the #2 performer, but not with the #2 performances in US history. Ryun had run both 3:51.3 and then 3:51.1 world records in '66 & '67, respectively. Ryun also had a 3:52.8 run in '72. I don't have a detailed compilation of miles from that era, so there may be more.
 
JAVMAN83 said:
FYI - Wottle's run would've made him the #2 performer, but not with the #2 performances in US history. Ryun had run both 3:51.3 and then 3:51.1 world records in '66 & '67, respectively. Ryun also had a 3:52.8 run in '72. I don't have a detailed compilation of miles from that era, so there may be more.
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You are 100% correct. I changed the wording. I believe it is now worded correctly. Thank you JAVMAN83.
 
Sam Prakel had a busy and very successful 2021. It should net him his 3rd Track and Field News end-of-year Top 10 ranking.
He ran under 3:39 for 1500 meters 7 times, with a best of 3:36.36. He added in 4 sub 4:00 minute track miles and a couple sub 4:00 road miles as well. His 3:49.98 at the Cleveland Guardian Road Mile was his road mile PR and his 3:55.33 at the Sir Walter Miler in NC was his season best outdoors.

He made his first Olympic Trials 1500 Final in June, placing 9th.

Sam was a multiple time Ohio State Champ for Versailles (2013 grad) at 800, 1600, 3200, and XC. At the U of Oregon, Sam was a 5 time All-American.

Sam has one more race left to run as he'll toe the line in the Big Apple for the NYRRC 5th Avenue Mile later this month.

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Colby Alexander had a short, but sweet, campaign in 2021. Just like his Oregon teammate, Sam Prakel (see above post), Colby should ride his 2021 success to his 3rd Top 10 National ranking at 1500 meters when T&F News comes out with their end-of-year rankings.

Because of injury, Colby got off to a late start and didn't run his first race until a month before the Olympic Trials. On June 3rd, he ran 3:35.81 in Portland, sending out word he would be a contender at the Trials. At the OT's, Colby made it thru the 2 qualifying rounds to his 2nd OT final. In the final, he led the race until 400 to go. With 100 to go, Colby and Sam Prakel were right there poised for a possible top 3 finish, but neither runner had that final gear up the homestretch to make the team. But a solid performance nonetheless from both Ohioans. (Colby 8th, Sam 9th).

The highlight of Colby's season came 3 weeks later, as he began rounding into peak shape, when he raced the Sunset Tour 1500 in Mission Viejo.
Colby raced to a 3:33.65 win, beating an elite field and becoming the 5th fastest American performer ever at 1500 meters on American soil. That time also ranked him as the 17th fastest American of All-Time for 1500 meters.

For good measure, Colby threw in a 3:50 28 road mile at Cleveland's Guardian Mile on July 31 to close out his brief, but ultra successful season.
His 3:50.28 beat his 3:50.30 road mile PR from 2016 when he almost upset newly crowned Olympic Champion, Matthew Centrowitz, at the NYRRC 5th Ave Mile.

Colby was a two-time State Champ for Strongville HS (2010 grad), and an All-American for the Oregon Ducks.
 
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There's a former miler named Matt Taylor who ran a 3:57.84 indoors in 1991.
He went to HS in Texas and ran at Arkansas, but has lived in Ohio for the past 25 years.

Interestingly, Matt once worked in the same department as Mike Huber. That name should be familiar to most distance fans.
 
Yes…Matt Taylor married one of the Dias twins (Julie?). The twins ran for Sourheast HS near Ravenna in the 80’s. They both won multiple State tiltles in track and XC then they went on to run for Arkansas where Julie met Matt. After Matt graduated from medical school, they moved to the Akron area where he now practices. Their two daughters eventually ran for the Razorbacks.
 
I mentioned Lucas Bons' (Dublin Coffman) strong performance in the 3000m at the Boston U indoor meet in another thread and also noted his 3:55.45 mile that he ran earlier this year. That performance is noted in this thread as well.

A few weeks ago I came across this article. Not many have gone under 4:00 for the mile in the state of Utah. Bons is only one of three people that have done it. A big factor is the altitude. Provo, where BYU is located, is at 4,597 feet of elevation. Bons' effort came at a meet last April in Provo.
 
This morning while I was reading and having coffee I started wondering if there were any Ohio runners other than Bons that have gone under 4:00 for the mile at altitude. I was also wondering how many people, in total, have done it. I was not able to answer my latter question but I did find out that Cory Leslie, a graduate of Sandusky Perkins and Ohio State, snuck under 4:00 in Albuquerque in 2013. Leslie recorded a 3:59.88 at 5000 ft elevation. This article is from 2014 and at that time it appears that only 6 runners have gone under 4:00 on American soil. Apparently Doug Padilla of BYU, and mentioned in the article that I posted above, was the first to do it in 1983. He also had his sub-4 effort in Provo as Bons did.

Also mentioned in the article that Leslie was mentioned, and off the topic of this thread a bit, was Jim Ryun's 3:37.8 1500 silver medal run in 1968 at the Olympics in Mexico City. He was beaten by Kip Keino who trained at altitude. Apparently, this is the equivalent of a 3:54.8 mile effort and is quite impressive given that Mexico City's altitude is 7300 feet.
 
WE HAVE A NEW MEMBER OF THE SUB-4 CLUB!!!

Dublin Jerome Alum, Elliott Cook dipped under the magic 4 min barrier last weekend at the Razorback Inv, running 3:59.02. Elliott was the 2019 indoor mile champ for Jerome and is currently a redshirt freshman at Oregon.

Colby Alexander, Sam Prakel, Mick Stanovsek, and now Elliott have made their collegiate home in Eugene and what better place to be a miler than TrackTown USA?!? No college track program is better at churning out elite milers than Oregon.

Elliott is the 31st Ohio schoolboy to go on to break 4:00. Congratulations Elliott!
 
Colby Alexander and Sam Prakel shine at Millrose Games Wanamaker Mile

The Wanamaker Mile is the most prestigious indoor mile in the world. It's the highlight event of one of the most star-studded indoor meets on the planet, The Millrose Games.

To get an invite to toe the line in a meet like this is quite an honor. In this years Wanamaker Mile, there were 14 runners, over half of them from countries outside the US. The two favorites were Scotland's Josh Kerr, a 3:29 1500 runner and the 2021 Olympic Bronze medalist at 1500, and Ollie Hoare from Australia, a 3:32 1500 runner and a 2021 Olympic finalist at 1500 meters.

US entries included former US indoor 1500 champion, Craig Engels... 3:49 indoor miler Johnny Gregorek... Henry Wynne, 3:34.01 1500 and 5th at last years Olympic Trials... former HS phenom Hobbs Kessler, now running for adidas...and three Ohio HS alums, Colby Alexander, Sam Prakel, and 2021 Olympic Trials 800 Champ, Clayton Murphy.

Hoare, Kerr, and Colby quickly separated from the field with pacer Erik Sowinsky setting a torrid pace. Hoare came thru 400 in 55, 800 in 1:54, and won in 3:50.83, becoming the 11th fastest indoor miler in history. He didn't pull away from Kerr and Colby until the final 150 meters however, as Kerr finished in 3:52.27, followed closely by Colby in 3:52.84. Prakel closed well for 4th in 3:55.73.

Hoare ran his indoor PR and also set an Australian national record. Olympic Bronze Medalist, Kerr also ran an indoor PR and set a Scottish national record. Alexander hung on gamely to set an indoor PR and overall mile PR, proving he can run with the world's best even when they are running personal bests. Alexander's time now ranks him as the 14th fastest American indoor miler in history. It's also currently a US #1 rank.
 
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ALEXANDER AND PRAKEL IN THE TOP ECHELON OF U.S. 1500/MILE RANKINGS

World Athletics is the organization responsible for all rankings in the sport of track & field. They use a scoring system that awards points for performances. The points you are awarded are based on the quality of your effort, the quality of the meet, and the quality of competition within your event. They take the average score of your top five performances over the past 12 months and rank you based on that average score.

Thru April 12 here are the U.S. rankings based on the performances over the last 12 months.

1) Cole Hocker
2) Colby Alexander
3). Matthew Centrowitz
4) Sam Prakel
5) Johnny Gregorek
6) Henry Wynne
7) Craig Engels
8) Josh Thompson
9) Yared Nuguse
10) Vince Ciattei

This ranking system was what got Cole Hocker into the Olympic Games last year. He won the Trials but didn't have the "A" standard. He was however ranked high enough in these rankings to be permitted to run in the Games. (I believe a top 50 World rank was required to run in the Olympics if you hadn't achieved the "A" time and. obviously, you had to be one of your country's chosen participants thru their selection process.)
 
COLBY AND SAM AT THE USA INDOOR CHAMPIONSHIPS

My post (above) on the latest US rankings, forgot to mention Colby and Sam and their efforts at the USA indoor Championships at the end of February in Spokane, WA.

Colby went in as a favorite to make the World team based on his previous indoor efforts in January and early Feb. He'd run 3:52 and 3:53 for the mile at the Millrose Games and the NB Indoor Grand Prix. He'd raced most of the top US milers (Engels, Gregorek, Prakel, Kessler, Murphy) and the closest any of them came to Colby was 3 full seconds back. Entering the USA meet, Cole Hocker was a legitimate concern, but he would be running the 3000 the night before and doubling back in the 1500 the next day.

Colby has had his share of injuries in the past but this season he'd finally been healthy. But the injury cloud returned the day of the meet. His Twitter account that day stated that in the first 3 steps after the gun, he felt his hamstring pull. He shortened his stride and slowed his pace to allow him to continue without fully pulling his hamstring, but he couldn't risk changing speeds or accelerating (or kicking). As it happened, he finished 6th and out of the money for the World team. I haven't read any updates on the injury and I haven't seen any race results since then from him. Hopefully he'll be back at it outdoors.

His Oregon teammate, Sam, ran to a 4th place finish, also out of the money for a World team berth. But, unlike Colby, luck was on Sam's side because one of the runners ahead of Sam didn't have the World "A" time and another declined to go (injury?). So Sam ended up running at the World Championships in Serbia. Sam's World team debut was a very successful one as he qualified for the final and then ran to a 9th place finish in the final.

It says a lot about the state of miling at the moment in the US, when the 4th place finisher at our National Meet placed 9th at the World Championships.

CONGRATULATIONS TO SAM AND COLBY ON OUTSTANDING INDOOR SEASONS
 
Gofast.edu said:
The kid from St. X Nathan Mountain ran 3:40 last week as a freshman. A matter of time before he breaks 4.
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I agree. Just a matter of time. He has the advantage of great talent plus great coaching. Vin Lananna and Trevor Dunbar form a fantastic coaching tandem for Nathan. But even tho a sub-4 mile is more common these days than back in the day, it"s still a significant achievement, and never a guarantee.

Off the top of my head...Just look at some recent Ohio alum that we thought were shoo-ins...

Dustin Horter went to Indiana. Ran 4:05 in HS...Best so far...4:04.31
Joe Bistritz went to NC State...Ran 4:06 in HS...Best so far 4:04.39
Arjun Jha went to Indiana..Got real close...Best so far 4:00.84
Ashwin Briggs went to Navy..Got real close...Best so far 4:01.12

These guys are at the tail end of their college careers (or already out) and opportunities are likely diminishing.

Some older guys that we thought were shoo-ins...

Sam Borchers went to Penn State. Ran 4:03 in HS...Final PR 4:01.98
John Zishka went to Penn State/Oregon. Ran 4:03 in HS, never broke 4
Ron Addison went to Tennessee. Ran 4:05 in HS, never broke 4

There's more. Way more...But I think you get my drift. Having said all that, I think Nathan breaking 4 is a no-doubter. The question is, how far under will he go?
 
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I always thought Penn State was way over-rated as a quality distance school. Frankly, I don't consider miling to be a distance event. It is far more a tempo run with a sprint at the end. Completely different qualities than that needed for 10ks and marathons.
 
JAVMAN83 said:
I always thought Penn State was way over-rated as a quality distance school. Frankly, I don't consider miling to be a distance event. It is far more a tempo run with a sprint at the end. Completely different qualities than that needed for 10ks and marathons.
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I agree about Penn State and distance. Their cross country and track distance results aren’t generally that good on a national level. Their middle distance runners tend to have some National success though. Ohio native, Brannon Kidder had an outstanding career there. Coach John Gondak does a good job with recruiting. But it does seem like their distance program lags behind the top dogs.
 
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