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Northwestern vs SLC - Status

Yes and watch out for the "A+" logic.

side note: What kink of college/university puts an "A+" on the transcript? Reminds me of the movie "A Christmas Story" where the boy writes a paper on getting a Red Ryder gun and dreams of the teacher giving him an A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.

Some how I feel like it was a dream.
 
pied said:
I think SLCDad does have a clue about HS sports. I do think his vision can be short sighted to one team and half decade. I think he relies on computer stats too much, and makes conclusions about them.
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You are right. This is why I use the stats.

On boards like this it's common for people to say "this team could beat that team" or "if that team played in my state, they could never do what they did", etc., etc. These statements are personal opinions. I prefer to use the opinions of experts who make a living evaluating high school football.

Computer polls are especially valuable in my opinion because they don't have the human bias or "group think" mentality. For example, in 2006 there was a terrific team up in Oregon (Portland Jesuit). Most national pollsters overlooked them in the rankings. Jesuit won the Oregon 6A title. BOTH national computer models had them in the national top 3 but only one human poll had then in the top 10. Another example is 2006 Lakeland. My intent is NOT to rag on Lakeland, but in all honesty, they really didn't have a national championship season in 2006. Many teams did better on the field than Lakeland. However, because Lakeland STARTED the season ranked high and the human polls have a "don't drop until you lose" mentality some humans ranked them #1. BOTH computer models had Lakeland near the bottom of the top 20. I believe the computers were right in this case.

Granted, there are flaws in computer models just like there are flaws in EVERY poll.

If you read my posts about rankings, I almost never use my personal opinion but I use as much independent data as I can to support what I post. Yeah, I'm a homer, but when it comes to rankings or schedule strength, I'm not a homer because I use independent data, not a homer opinion.
 
pied said:
Wow, your third consecutive post on this thread w/in 15 minutes.....

I think SLCDad does have a clue about HS sports. I do think his vision can be short sighted to one team and half decade. I think he relies on comuter stats too much, and makes conclusions about them.

I also think he has an easy case to make. His team has been the best of the best for the past few years. Since he limits his arguements to that time frame, his points are accurate. They can also be irritating, but many of his points are factully accurate.

Again, who is incorrect? You are stating that I do not challenge him, yet I challenged him on the exact points you have.

My true colors?

If I have any, they would be the Navy and Gold from Lamar and Burnt Orange and White for Texas.
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and how do you say FOR CERTAIN SLC was the best team in the country???

who did they play on the east coast?
who did they play from the midwest?
who did they play from california?

what makes you 100% certain slc was the absolute best team in the nation in 2006?

I am very curious on how subjective ratings PROVE SLC was the best team in the country and you fall for that
 
pied said:
It took you 18 minutes to post four times consecutively on this thread, and nearly nothing you talked about has to do with the SLC-MNW game being on.

The reason it bothers me, is because you appear to have some insight or at least a differnet perspective regarding HS football.

You refuse to answer questions and choose to only to attack one poster and school.

Certainly may posters have different opinions/thoughts, but you seem to be one track, and as I pointed out, you posting makes it difficult to understand and respond.
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i dont ATTACK one poster and school

I correct obvious factual mistakes and poor and faulty logical deductions.

how is that attacking?

PS I get GREAT SATISFACTION in correcting him

why is it so difficult to see the contradiction in spending three months saying nonconference games and preseason and early season rankings are meaningless, and then after a MNW-SLC game is supposedly announced the guy has SEVEN threads about preseason rankings and what a great #1 vs #2 preseason ranking game it would be

seeems to be pretty straightforward contradictory to me ( I even listed most of the thread titles)

I dont see how you miss the contradiction
 
how is correcting the statement "that since dls started traveling they have been losing every year since" by stating that "they traveled 2500 miles in 2002 to beat an 18 time state champion and they won the national championship that year" attacking?

what part of that is an attack

and what part is a factual correction

sherlock?????????????????
 
Crusaders Football said:
stop the pissing contest now!

Post facts, starting lineups, preseason rankings, fantasy matchups, returning starters, magazine snipets...... etc. etc. but stop the pissing contest for god's sake. Post stuff on matchups that will happen in the near future, or summer lifting info, or two a days info, or something but you sound like little 9 year old girls:wallbang: .
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YES, YES, YES. Exactly.

(Notice it's usually the same guy who is on one side of all of the pissing contests.)


.
 
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pied said:
Why am I doing what I am about to do?????
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Good question. Pied, I think you lost your composure for a few moments.

Debate with that guy is pretty much impossible. Several posters have posted the resons why.

.
 
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SLCDad said:
If you read my posts about rankings, I almost never use my personal opinion but I use as much independent data as I can to support what I post. Yeah, I'm a homer, but when it comes to rankings or schedule strength, I'm not a homer because I use independent data, not a homer opinion.
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Personally I don't put a lot of stock in rankings and even less so to computer polls. I think there fun to look at, but also believe some people truly think that if some news organization says team A from Illinois is ranked 7th in the Nations, they really are better than Team B from Oregon.

We debated ad nauseum last year, but I do think Texas schools get an added bump in SOS, therefore computer polls because of the Districty set up. I do think it is easier to be 10-0 at the end of the regular season in Texas than other places in the nation.

Once you get to the end, the only real players are still undefeated and then you have to rely on SOS. I thik those numbers can be inflated in Texas.
 
consumerman said:
and how do you say FOR CERTAIN SLC was the best team in the country???

who did they play on the east coast?
who did they play from the midwest?
who did they play from california?

what makes you 100% certain slc was the absolute best team in the nation in 2006?

I am very curious on how subjective ratings PROVE SLC was the best team in the country and you fall for that
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I can't. I did see the 6A/5A championship in FL.

I did see a few games from Ohio, although most Ohio posters I read, did not think there was an elite National team last year.

I saw DLS/Country Canyon/St. Bonnie/Oaks Christian.

I think SLC was the best team of those I saw. I also think their resume was better than the others up for #1 last year and you could make a better case for them than Lakeland.
 
pied said:
We debated ad nauseum last year, but I do think Texas schools get an added bump in SOS, therefore computer polls because of the Districty set up. I do think it is easier to be 10-0 at the end of the regular season in Texas than other places in the nation.

Once you get to the end, the only real players are still undefeated and then you have to rely on SOS. I thik those numbers can be inflated in Texas.
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How do you believe the district system helps SOS evaluations? Just curious. It's a random alignment based on geography.

I think the top Texas teams get a bump in the SOS ratings because the Texas playoffs are so HUGE. All of the teams that survive for 4, 5 or 6 rounds are rewarded, thus helping the SOS of the teams they play. That's how it should be.

Granted in some places (the GCL in Ohio is a good example) many of the top teams are in the same league (due to scheduling necessity). It's very tough to finish undefeated in that league. On the other hand, when the top teams are in one league, it's that much easier for teams to finish undefeated in other leagues in the state. Overall it's a wash.

Several people debated this a couple of years ago. Statistics were posted that (adjusted for size) there are no more undefeated teams in Texas than the other top states. Caliornia is the exception. It's easier to go undefeated in California because they don't have a state playoff. They have a much higher percentage of undefeated teams than the other top states.
 
5% of 5A schools finished 10-0
7% of 5A schools finished 9-1 (8-1 for one team)
9% of 5A schools finished 8-2

Over 20% finished with two or less losses.
 
pied said:
5% of 5A schools finished 10-0
7% of 5A schools finished 9-1 (8-1 for one team)
9% of 5A schools finished 8-2

Over 20% finished with two or less losses.
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I'm not sure what your point is.

The last time we looked at these types of numbers we found the other major football states had very similar percentages.

The only real difference we found was that California had many more teams with good records when the playoffs are included.
 
pied said:
I can't. I did see the 6A/5A championship in FL.

I did see a few games from Ohio, although most Ohio posters I read, did not think there was an elite National team last year.

I saw DLS/Country Canyon/St. Bonnie/Oaks Christian.

I think SLC was the best team of those I saw. I also think their resume was better than the others up for #1 last year and you could make a better case for them than Lakeland.
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so you saw a few teams and your SUBJECTIVE OPINION qualifies that 100% for sure SLC is the best team in the country?

REALLY?????????????????????????????
 
I would agree that it is easier to go undefeated in a Texas district than a the GCL. No doubt. SOS and Power Rankings are relative. What is nice about them is they are without emotion. They have flaws but each week of the season after the 5th week their accuracy improves.

Each state knows where the football is weak. In Texas, it is the Rio Grande Valley. Last year the Valley turned out two undefeated teams in district - Los Fresnos and PSJA -North. Both teams played only 5A schools. They moved into the playoffs and continued to rack up wins against other Valley teams. In the end, Los Fresnos ended up at a respectable 12-1 and PSJA - North 11-1. They were one of nine 5A teams to go undefeated in district. On could argue based upon stats and records both should be ranked in the top 10 in Texas. But out of 246 teams in 5A Massey had them ranked 137 and 138 respectively. Calpreps ranked the one loss teams #104 and #135 respectively.

The human rankings are opinions that are tainted by prior years opinions and little if any 1st hand experience. One one individual can not accurately compare top 1,000 teams. I have seen national polls that have listed Texas High in the top 7 or 8 in the country in 2003. If was solely because they won Texas 4A in 2002 in a convincing manner. But in 2002 at the end of the year they were not rated in the top 20. I just do not see how a group of intelligent individuals can "see" enough games to make an independent determination. Instead it is more influenced by the media hype machines.

Because of the difficulties in developing a system to rank schools, in my opinion there are no National Champions in high school football. Each year we listen to the debates for the NCAA Div 1-A BCS bowl. At the end of the year we are still wondering if Auburn was the true National Champions. Should Boise State be the 2006 champs? That debate exists for approximate 120 teams and high school has 12,000+. The only truth is that Texas was the NCAA National Champions in 2005 led by Superman.
 
consumerman said:
so you saw a few teams and your SUBJECTIVE OPINION qualifies that 100% for sure SLC is the best team in the country?

REALLY?????????????????????????????
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No, you must have missed where I said:

I can't.
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I would never say 100%. I don't really care either. If some Dreadnoughts want to claim they were #1, great. Some Dragons from TX, hurray.

All I am saying is if it were the pied poll, I would rank SLC #1 last year.
 
pied said:
No, you must have missed where I said:



I would never say 100%. I don't really care either. If some Dreadnoughts want to claim they were #1, great. Some Dragons from TX, hurray.

All I am saying is if it were the pied poll, I would rank SLC #1 last year.
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there are 300 million people in USA and I bet there is only 1 (yourself) who cares what your poll is
 
consumerman said:
how is correcting the statement "that since dls started traveling they have been losing every year since" by stating that "they traveled 2500 miles in 2002 to beat an 18 time state champion and they won the national championship that year" attacking?

what part of that is an attack

and what part is a factual correction

sherlock?????????????????
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I guess you are not even going to attempt to answer this one

when you are wrong, just ignore and start a new attack right?
 
consumerman said:
there are 300 million people in USA and I bet there is only 1 (yourself) who cares what your poll is
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True, except I would add yourself since you seem to have asked me about it. So we will make it two.

No one would like my poll anyway. To steal an idea from concha, I would prbably have few definitive "rankings", but several "groupings" of teams.
 
SLCDad said:
Yep.

One more truth. SLC has been the best program in the nation over the last 5 years. It's really hard to make a case for anybody else.
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SLC has NEVER won the top division championship (Division 5 - large school) until 2006 and even then they fluked into a win in R2 because the opposing coach choked a way a lead with a horrible fake punt call

They have never won the Texas large school division prior to 2006

and that is not a SUBJECTIVE opinion it is an OBJECTIVE FACT
 
consumerman said:
SLC has NEVER won the top division championship (Division 5 - large school) until 2006 and even then they fluked into a win in R2 because the opposing coach choked a way a lead with a horrible fake punt call

They have never won the Texas large school division prior to 2006
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and those superficially impressive 6 playoff rounds become less impressive when the division is watered down with many 3-7 and 4-6 playoff teams and then split into two divisions
 
Consumerman, you missed the point. If you don't think SLC has had the best program in the country over the last 5 years, WHO DO YOU THINK IT IS?

Name a team that has been better!!


(Consumerman, this is an example of why several posters have questioned your logic and debating skills. If you don't think SLC has had the best program over the last 5 years state your case. Nobody said SLC was perfect, which you obviously agree with. I DID SAY that SLC has the best program in the country. Can you dispute that? Don't change the subject.)
 
SLCDad said:
Consumerman, you missed the point. If you don't think SLC has had the best program in the country over the last 5 years, WHO DO YOU THINK IT IS?

Name a team that has been better!!
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which year (other than the fluke ridden 2006 playoffs) that SLC was the top school in the top division in Texas?


You can not objectively say SLC was the best team in Texas in any year besides 2006 (congrats on the stupidest fake punt strategy in history)
because they did not play in the top division (large school) playoffs

that is non-debatable
 
consumerman said:
SLC has NEVER won the top division championship (Division 5 - large school) until 2006 and even then they fluked into a win in R2 because the opposing coach choked a way a lead with a horrible fake punt call

They have never won the Texas large school division prior to 2006

and that is not a SUBJECTIVE opinion it is an OBJECTIVE FACT
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As it is that DLS has played in one state championship game, and lost it.

Any statement that DLS was ever the best team in California is a SUBJECTIVE OPINION not and OBJECTIVE FACT.
 
pied said:
As it is that DLS has played in one state championship game, and lost it.

Any statement that DLS was ever the best team in California is a SUBJECTIVE OPINION not and OBJECTIVE FACT.
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I have ALWAYS AGREED WITH THAT

you are finally getting it

PS it was not a state championship game, it was a bowl game, dozens of teams were considered to play and they could all make a claim to being qualified. There was no elimination games and so a state championship game is probably innapropriate
 
SLCDad said:
Consumerman, you missed the point. If you don't think SLC has had the best program in the country over the last 5 years, WHO DO YOU THINK IT IS?

Name a team that has been better!!


(Consumerman, this is an example of why several posters have questioned your logic and debating skills. If you don't think SLC has had the best program over the last 5 years state your case. Nobody said SLC was perfect, which you obviously agree with. I DID SAY that SLC has the best program in the country. Can you dispute that? Don't change the subject.)
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they have an impresive record but based on subjective opinions (since SLC does not play any quality out of state temas) other teams and programs have been better, Have you heard of the team with a current 104 game winning streak?

Unless those 2 played head to head you can not objectively say one team is better than the other, although the other team has no losses over the last 5 years and SLC has 1 plus a fluke win
 
pied said:
As it is that DLS has played in one state championship game, and lost it.

Any statement that DLS was ever the best team in California is a SUBJECTIVE OPINION not and OBJECTIVE FACT.
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to repeat (ad nauseam) any resemblance the 2006 team had to streak teams was very weak
'
the 2006 teams had 1 maybe D1 recruit

no Maurice Drew.s Derek Landri's Matt Gutierrez's, DJ Williams, Demertius Williams

a loss by the 2006 team (that went 13-1 and was ranked #1 for 3 months) does not diminish what previous DLS teams accomplished

that is the mistake most people on this board are making
 
consumerman said:
a loss by the 2006 team (that went 13-1 and was ranked #1 for 3 months) does not diminish what previous DLS teams accomplished
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I think you are correct, but on thing no DLS team has accomplished is being the "OBJECTIVE" #1 team in California.

Another accurate statement is that they are winless in every chance they had to prove objectively that they are CA's best.
 
consumerman said:
they have an impresive record but based on subjective opinions (since SLC does not play any quality out of state temas) other teams and programs have been better, Have you heard of the team with a current 104 game winning streak?

Unless those 2 played head to head you can not objectively say one team is better than the other, although the other team has no losses over the last 5 years and SLC has 1 plus a fluke win
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So . . . you are saying that Independence Charlotte has had a better team over the last 5 years than SLC? Correct?

Is that what you believe?
 
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