Northwest Ohio Realignment

eastisbest

Well-known member
Nothing like waiting until last minute. If they chose to have a new coach, they already have their next coach. If he chose to leave, best wishes, hope the reasons for leaving so late are good and not personal difficulty. He seems a good guy. Seemed to really care about his team and players when he was on the Eastside.
 

TRAC Football

Active member
If coaching football is the most important thing in your life, there is no point in coaching HS. He is young, no kids, why not take a chance and look to move up? Good for him for chasing his dream, regardless of he succeeds or not.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
What is that now? Five SF coaches Dempsey has dispatched? Cromwell, Blochowski, Hedden, Kniesley, Chipka? Cromwell had the last victory over CC in what? 2003? 2004? Does anyone working on Bancroft even remember what the Irish Knight looks like? We are approaching 20 years. I hope SF can turn it around. There is talent in that building but tough to draw a coach paying $60,000 with limited bennies especially in today's day and age when no one worthy wants to coach anymore.
 
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smurfyeah19

Active member
What is that now? Five SF coaches Dempsey has dispatched? Cromwell, Blochowski, Hedden, Kniesley, Chipka? Cromwell had the last victory over CC in what? 2003? 2004? Does anyone working on Bancroft even remember what the Irish Knight looks like? We are approaching 20 years. I hope SF can turn it around. There is talent in that building but tough to draw a coach paying $60,000 with limited bennies especially in today's day and age when no one worthy wants to coach anymore.
To be honest, this is what’s caused a lot of the issues in the TRAC. Similar to the demise of Tennessee, Miami and Florida State allowing Alabama/Georgia/Clemson to just hoard all the top talent, St Francis and St Johns falling off pace let Central become a behemoth. Credit to Dempsey for sure but I think NW Ohio football would be better off if SFS returned to prominence
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Since the OHSAA opened the summer without restrictions (used to be allowed 10 days instructional days from end of school until late July or two-a-days) how is everyone handling it? Three days a week? Five days a week? Just curious? Fine line between instruction and keeping things interesting and burning kids out. Kids need time away, time to reboot, hang out with friends and be kids.
 
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eastisbest

Well-known member
They may be tired of the long reboot they just had. I'd like to see the schools combine make-up education with the sports and extra-currilcular programs. Particularly for those too young to be working. They're paying for the AC as it is. Get em cleaned and open em back up.
 

ToledoGuy

Active member
Since the OHSAA opened the summer without restrictions (used to be allowed 10 days instructional days from end of school until late July or two-a-days) how is everyone handling it? Three days a week? Five days a week? Just curious? Fine line between instruction and keeping things interesting and burning kids out. Kids need time away, time to reboot, hang out with friends and be kids.

Whitmer, Central Catholic, and St John's appear to be holding open-to-all player camps throughout the month of June. Solid way to bolster the stock if you ask me.
 

buccaneers2002

Active member
Since the OHSAA opened the summer without restrictions (used to be allowed 10 days instructional days from end of school until late July or two-a-days) how is everyone handling it? Three days a week? Five days a week? Just curious? Fine line between instruction and keeping things interesting and burning kids out. Kids need time away, time to reboot, hang out with friends and be kids.

Well how's your team handling it? I saw Whitmer installed a brand spanking new video board, about twice the size of their previous video board!! Genuinely curious how much that cost. Was it a donation?
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Well how's your team handling it? I saw Whitmer installed a brand spanking new video board, about twice the size of their previous video board!! Genuinely curious how much that cost. Was it a donation?

I know right! I "saw" a person wearing a Whitmer Booster t-shirt at Augenetta's (I was getting a pedicure, honest) getting recipes and recruiting volunteers. Someone get OHSAA on the line, Whitmer's recruiting FANS!!!! Oh wait, they're out of district now so I guess they can do that?
 

Smalls

Well-known member
^^^^^Would love for the schools to open up in the summer, but I am afraid if it was not mandatory there would be very little participation.

My brother has one student in his summer school class. Guess the parents complaining about their kids falling behind are not that concerned about the outcome and more interested in Bching.
 
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irish_buffalo

Well-known member
^^^^^Would love for the schools to open up in the summer, but I am afraid if it was not mandatory there would be very little participation.

My brother has one student in his summer school class. Guess the parents complaining about their kids falling behind are not that concerned about the outcome and more interested in !ng.
Apples to Oranges discussion here. The effect of vouchers on public school districts within private school reach has nothing to do with Covid-19 and summer school being mandatory. Using MY property tax so a kid can leave MY district to attend a school not held to the same standards is BS no matter how one spins it. The Ohio Supreme Court has ruled 4x that schools are funded illegally and nothing has happened? Why? Concerted effort to privatize schools.
 

chs1971

Well-known member
Not really. I know it is tough to see from Clyde but I know of two local privates that would be shuttered if not for vouchers. Voucher expansion the past two years should become even more apparent as we move forward.
a. No public schools have closed because of vouchers so the "concerted effort" seems to be failing miserably. What are vouchers doing for enrollment at places like Fremont St. Joe or Fostoria St. Wendelin?

b. I graduated from Clyde HS. I live elsewhere.
 

Smalls

Well-known member
Apples to Oranges discussion here. The effect of vouchers on public school districts within private school reach has nothing to do with Covid-19 and summer school being mandatory. Using MY property tax so a kid can leave MY district to attend a school not held to the same standards is BS no matter how one spins it. The Ohio Supreme Court has ruled 4x that schools are funded illegally and nothing has happened? Why? Concerted effort to privatize schools.
Right. I was not arguing that point....more was just looking for a place to make a statement about parents complaining about the education their kids are or are not receiving, but when given an opportunity to close some of the void they choose not to take advantage of what the school system is providing.

As far as school funding, if public school ABC cost $13K to educate a student then the tax payers have to come up with the full $13K from a variety of taxes. Now if that same student goes to a private school and takes the $6k Edchoice voucher the tax payer is paying $6K and the difference is made up in private $$$, lower costs and or tuition payments from the family. So from a tax payer standpoint EdChoice is about a $7K savings.

If instead of purchasing an education with your tax dollars your local community was purchasing cars or land or gold......which would you choose?

What are your thoughts on open enrollment? The financial harm that EdChoice and open enrollment places on a district is no different. There are winners and losers. I would argue that open enrollment is even worse in that not only is the local district losing the student/tax dollars, but the tax payers as a whole are not seeing the tax savings that results from EdChoice.

Now the potential harm it does to the local district goes beyond the $$$ however and is much harder to quantify. This is where I agree 100% with you.

Edit: To put some numbers to it. If my real estate taxes are $3,600/year and ~$2,000 goes to the school system and the school system has ~3,500 students then each student is costing me ~$0.57/year in taxes.

The real tax issue in "our" community is paying 2.25% income tax, with services that are no better and in many cases worse than most of the surrounding communities. That rate is anywhere from .25%-.75% higher than most. So now you can be talking about paying a premium of several hundred or even thousands of dollars instead of maybe $100-$200 moved outside the community to private schools. Everything is relative I suppose.
 
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FremontKeith

Well-known member
a. No public schools have closed because of vouchers so the "concerted effort" seems to be failing miserably. What are vouchers doing for enrollment at places like Fremont St. Joe or Fostoria St. Wendelin?

b. I graduated from Clyde HS. I live elsewhere.
Didn't St. Wendelin close a few years ago?
 

Smalls

Well-known member
Number of EdChoice students by private school in Toledo area.

1623083329523.png
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In a land without vouchers I could see many Stritch students ending up at Central. Most families come from East and North Toledo/Point Place.

Toledo Christian, Emmanuel Christian would not survive.

St. Francis has a pretty big number and would have to make a lot of cuts, but would survive. ND, SUA and SJJ would have no problem living without vouchers.

I assume the vast majority of the students in the graphs above (600 total) are being pulled from TPS. Does anyone have open enrollment numbers for the burbs? I was told Oregon has 200+ open enrollment students in the district. Not sure what that means at the high school level to compare apples to apples.

My point being that I assume the open enrollment public schools are doing more harm to TPS than EdChoice.
 
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cchs1983

Well-known member
Number of EdChoice students by private school in Toledo area.

View attachment 17889
View attachment 17890

My point being that I assume the open enrollment public schools are doing more harm to TPS than EdChoice.
Interesting to see how Washington Local handles open enrollment throughout their district. Is it for grades K-12 or just high school aged kids? If you've ever seen the district map, Washington Local covers such a large area that butts up against TPS, a shift in numbers will be interesting. And did I hear/understand correctly, did a suit from WLS say their going to 'selective' open enrollment? How does that work and how do you stay out of law suits for not 'allowing' certain kids in? Is there really a 'selective' open enrollment model out there?
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
As far as school funding, if public school ABC cost $13K to educate a student then the tax payers have to come up with the full $13K from a variety of taxes. Now if that same student goes to a private school and takes the $6k Edchoice voucher the tax payer is paying $6K and the difference is made up in private $$$, lower costs and or tuition payments from the family. So from a tax payer standpoint EdChoice is about a $7K savings.
My property taxes are based on where I live and are local. That is why I live where I live. My property taxes, pulled from a levy, should not be used outside of MY district to prop up a failing private school.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Number of EdChoice students by private school in Toledo area.

View attachment 17889
View attachment 17890

In a land without vouchers I could see many Stritch students ending up at Central. Most families come from East and North Toledo/Point Place.

Toledo Christian, Emmanuel Christian would not survive.

St. Francis has a pretty big number and would have to make a lot of cuts, but would survive. ND, SUA and SJJ would have no problem living without vouchers.

I assume the vast majority of the students in the graphs above (600 total) are being pulled from TPS. Does anyone have open enrollment numbers for the burbs? I was told Oregon has 200+ open enrollment students in the district. Not sure what that means at the high school level to compare apples to apples.

My point being that I assume the open enrollment public schools are doing more harm to TPS than EdChoice.
Wrong again. In an land without vouchers those kids do not go to CC? They would need the voucher to get into CC the same as Stritch.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Number of EdChoice students by private school in Toledo area.

View attachment 17889
View attachment 17890

In a land without vouchers I could see many Stritch students ending up at Central. Most families come from East and North Toledo/Point Place.

Toledo Christian, Emmanuel Christian would not survive.

St. Francis has a pretty big number and would have to make a lot of cuts, but would survive. ND, SUA and SJJ would have no problem living without vouchers.

I assume the vast majority of the students in the graphs above (600 total) are being pulled from TPS. Does anyone have open enrollment numbers for the burbs? I was told Oregon has 200+ open enrollment students in the district. Not sure what that means at the high school level to compare apples to apples.

My point being that I assume the open enrollment public schools are doing more harm to TPS than EdChoice.
CC receives 1.5 million in public money yet can pick and choose who they want? The local public has to take them all. I'd love to see the breakdown of the 231 vouchers. How many are boys vs girls? How many play football and basketball vs everything else?

At what point does a private school actually become a public school? I'd say they are there.
 

Smalls

Well-known member
Wrong again. In an land without vouchers those kids do not go to CC? They would need the voucher to get into CC the same as Stritch.
I worded that poorly.

Agree a vast majority of the East and North Toledo kids would no longer attend private schools without the voucher, the other roughly 50% of Stritch families would look for other private school opportunities. So Central may lose 200, but have the potential to add from a private school consolidation. I do not think Central would close.
 

Smalls

Well-known member
My property taxes are based on where I live and are local. That is why I live where I live. My property taxes, pulled from a levy, should not be used outside of MY district to prop up a failing private school.

But it is ok for our local district to sponge off of and harm another district so long as they are public? Are they not taking local taxes dollars out of the community? Are they not taking advantage of the perception that one school district is better than another?

I am not a fan of vouchers and am more so playing devils advocate - but I think the argument against open enrollment should be just as vocal and remain consistent with the argument against vouchers. In my eyes one school system/community should not be able to rob from another....and that is what open enrollment does just as well as vouchers.

At the end of the day locally they both screw TPS.
 
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nwwarrior09

Well-known member
When you take in open enrollment students you do not receive any local tax dollars (property, sales, etc.) from the districts the students are coming from. You receive the state tax money that follows that given student.

There is an enormous difference between state taxes following a student to a different public school district as compared to a private institution via a voucher.
 
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