No Band No Football

Almost Prideful

Well-known member
The reason that so many privates (read Catholic) are so much better at football (sports) than band (music) is because sports are much more relevant to their organizations. Those are not hymnals in the pews, they are play books. That is not a sermon, it is the half-time pep-talk. Spontaneous blitz and countering screen plays can break out at any mass. How would a skilled musician fit in? Musicians have no relevance in the worship setting.
Alright, now how does everybody feel about the Catholic Church?
 

Whysoserious

Active member
The band will never be more than the second fiddle to the football team. The band makes the atmosphere better but without the game, the band would be playing for their parents every week and that's it. A good football team gives the bands thousands of listeners for their concerts every week. There's nothing wrong with being Robin. Not everyone can be batman.
Not all heroes can wear capes lol
 

tom 48

Well-known member
The most unnecessary entities at a football game are the cheerleaders. The The only people who actually follow them are their friends. Learning complicated cheers at camps, they try them at the games and are not leading the cheers. The fans will chant," Defense" or other one or two word utterances, but not the cheers begun by the "leaders." It's a great team activity for them, but they are essentially functionless at the game.
 

Almost Prideful

Well-known member
The most unnecessary entities at a football game are the cheerleaders. The The only people who actually follow them are their friends. Learning complicated cheers at camps, they try them at the games and are not leading the cheers. The fans will chant," Defense" or other one or two word utterances, but not the cheers begun by the "leaders." It's a great team activity for them, but they are essentially functionless at the game.
Humorous that a cheer coach once heard cheerleaders yell, "Keep it up! Keep it up! Keep that Tiger spirit up!" and thought: Damn that's good. I'm gonna have to teach that to my Bulldogs.
 

Zunardo

Well-known member
The most unnecessary entities at a football game are the cheerleaders. The The only people who actually follow them are their friends. Learning complicated cheers at camps, they try them at the games and are not leading the cheers. The fans will chant," Defense" or other one or two word utterances, but not the cheers begun by the "leaders." It's a great team activity for them, but they are essentially functionless at the game.
Certainly applies to at least some schools. It wasn't always so, though. At my school fifty years ago we had those things called pep rallies, and most of the students learned the cheers through repetition, and there was a lot more participation.

When you get down to it, you don't need a band. You don't need cheerleaders. You don't need a scoreboard with a clock or stadium lights. For that matter, you don't even need fans.

But they're certainly nice to have, since they still add to the pageantry that goes along with the game. :cool:
 

tom 48

Well-known member
Certainly applies to at least some schools. It wasn't always so, though. At my school fifty years ago we had those things called pep rallies, and most of the students learned the cheers through repetition, and there was a lot more participation.

When you get down to it, you don't need a band. You don't need cheerleaders. You don't need a scoreboard with a clock or stadium lights. For that matter, you don't even need fans.didn't used to be like thzt.

But they're certainly nice to have, since they still add to the pageantry that goes along with the game. :cool:

It didn't used to be like that. What has made the difference in both cheerleading and halftime shows are the camps and competition. The cheer squad goes to camp and learns complex cheers and routines. Competition bands learn one show and use football games as a dress rehearsal for Saturday competitions. How much excitement can be exacted from a crowd when the halftime show every week is based on Ravel's "Pavane for a Dead Infant," complete with huge props and solo clarinet? How much spirit can materialize when the cheerleaders are more interested in building their pyramid than getting the crowd to vocally support the team? Those days are long gone, as the auxiliary parts of the football atmosphere don't see the game as the most important part of their activity.
 
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dixietony

New member
It didn't used to be like that. What has made the difference in both cheerleading and halftime shows are the camps and competition. The cheer squad goes to camp and learns complex cheers and routines. Competition bands learn one show and use football games as a dress rehearsal for Saturday competitions. How much excitement can be exacted from a crowd when the halftime show every week is based on Ravel's "Pavane for a Dead Infant," complete with huge props and solo clarinet? How much spirit can materialize when the cheerleaders are more interested in building their pyramid than getting the crowd to vocally support the team? Those days are long gone, as the auxiliary parts of the football atmosphere don't see the game as the most important part of their activity.
Not every high school band goes to competitions. We learned a new show for each home game. I agree with your take on using the halftime as a dress rehearsal. March on the field. Play some popular songs, even if you need the music. And march off. Save the complicated steps and soul searching music for the competition.
 

JamesCW

Active member
Like NO ONE remembers the many epic post your scores threads. This is all we got. You shoulda been here for Fairwood King.

R.I.P.
I actually think it is a great thread. It just makes me laugh when so many people call it "dumb" but reply. I would think they would just ignore it. But, I guess that is just me.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
The point is moot...the investment in a band program outperforms the investment in a football program based on educational studies. We're not talking about which one brings in money for the school.
Those smart kids aren't smart because they were in band. They were smart before they ever started school.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
The most unnecessary entities at a football game are the cheerleaders. The The only people who actually follow them are their friends. Learning complicated cheers at camps, they try them at the games and are not leading the cheers. The fans will chant," Defense" or other one or two word utterances, but not the cheers begun by the "leaders." It's a great team activity for them, but they are essentially functionless at the game.
The cheerleaders at our school were really good gymnasts, so I have to say it was cool to watch them. But yeah, I don't need to hear their "cheers".
 

zzzzzzzzzzzz

New member
I am on the younger side of things and I work in with high schoolers, so I will give people the most raw, honest, detailed, and uncut truth in this debate.

Nobody other than band parents and alum could give two sh!ts about the band. Other than the percussion group, if my school were to drop band, I wouldn’t notice. My administration at our alumnus wouldn’t give a if the arts department ed off. The teachers (other than the arts teachers) wouldn’t give a . And about 97% of the people who come to our school’s game wouldn’t give a either.

I work with young people all the time and I graduated from high school recently. I ran cross country and track. I was good at it. I never aspired to run in college (unless it was P5), but I was all-state as an individual and won multiple regional and county championships. Nobody gave a about us either. Nobody gave a that I could run the mile in 4:37 or run the 800m in 2:02. Other than my teammates, I never had a full-on, in-depth conversation about running with any of my peers other than how me and my team performed at meets. At a triangular XC meet, there would be no more than 100 people there, and they were all family and friends of runners. I was content with that though. I can’t watch a whole track meet on TV. I’ll watch the championship races from 100m-1500m, the hurdles, and the field events, but I’m not watching six hours of people running.

First off, we need to understand the psychology of band parents/alum and current band members like E-Town. More in particular, the old-school ones. I would know, my father and older brother were both in band. My father had his own band and he actually performed with ‘Kix’ before they got famous in the 80’s, if you know who they are. My father was pi$$ed that I chose not to do band in high school. In middle school, picked band over general music theory just so he could shut the up. He was his most proud of me when I was in band. I know it. He obviously did not tell me that, but I knew it.

First off, the current band members. A heavy majority of the time, current and previous band members only care about themselves and their performances. They sit together with each other at lunch. They have sleepovers with each other. They smoke Mary Jane out of their brass instruments together. And the guys in band will use a single trombone as a fleshlight, while the girls would use a drum stick or a flute as a dild0. Hell, one time I told a tuba player that no one gave a fvkc about band, and he threatened to shove me down his tuba. They play Mario-Kart on their Nintendo DS or Wii U. And they watch hentai together as well. Some of them become buskers. Others start a band. And some of them become producers (only type of band member that I’d hang out with unless we ran XC or track together). These peculiar people don’t have conversations with people who are not in band. Band members act like all football players and athletes in general are bullies and are disrespectful, but they are scared to have a conversation with them. Now I do know athletes that were bullies and/or disrespected anyone who was not in their circle, but there was only one or two of them. I generally avoided them because I was not trying to be seen as a bully OR a preppy guy who is only going to college so he looks qualified to take over his father’s business. But really most athletes are willing to have a conversation with anyone if it is about themselves or something they are interested in. I didn’t like a lot of people in high school, and a lot my male peers hated on me for a very teen age reason, but I could still talk with the peers who didn’t like me about music, partying, or the NBA or NFL. Band members fail to realize this though. They watch movies like Grease and Napoleon Dynamite and think that is every jock.

Now for the previous band members. Majority of these people peaked in high school. They want to be famous, and high school was the closest they were going to get to acquiring said fame. My father was in band at the right time to be in band at the coolest position. He played the drums and I will admit he is good at it, to this day. I have told him time and time again that people don’t give two damns about band. Nobody gives a if you’re good at playing the drums (I’ll get into this later on in my rant). But what previous members will never admit is that they peaked in high school. High school was the best time of their lives. I had a good time in high school for several reasons as well, but I had more fun in college and I am an Army Reserve member who was active duty in the past. I had a lot of fun there as well. Track and XC was fun and I miss it. But I am over it as well. I wish I did some things differently, but it was a good experience and I wouldn’t trade it in for anything. Luckily for me though, I was handsome in high school, I was voted best dressed, and I had the meanest mouthpiece out of my class since the 7th grade, and I’m still all of this, so running wasn’t even the peak of my high school career. I would walk into a high school party and I would get greeted immediately at the door by about 50 people, and it was mostly girls, while I could see a lot of guys choosing to give me the stink eye rather than asking me for some advice. But a lot of that is trivial to me because none of that will be benchmarks of your future success. Past band members only had band because they were busy doing the things I listed above with their band mates. All that culminated to peaking in high school.

Last but not least, band parents. Oftentimes, band parents force their kids to join the band just so it looks better on their college application for when they apply to Miami of Ohio. My older brother was playing the piano in the 2nd grade, so he actually wanted to be in the band. But even though I was an athlete, my father was still pressing me about joining our high school’s band. It’s all he ever talked about my 8th grade year. Whether he asked me politely to do so, drunkenly argue with me about it, or tempt me with some bullsh!t offer, I told him no. I was in our middle school’s jazz band (more on that later) and I didn’t want to do any of that . I would try to break my instrument on purpose if it meant not having to do that . But band parents are usually fed lies by their children. “All the football players are bullies” “A lot of people care about band” “I got the hottest girlfriend/nicest boyfriend and she/he is in band”. The lies can be small fibs or egregious tall tales, but band parents will believe it because it is their kid. Some band parents just want to see their kid get their diploma and go to college. Some will be living their past through them. Others are trying to keep a worthless family tradition going. But all band parents usually had one thing in common, which is that they either had no life in high school OR their only extracurricular activity was band. See, band parents obviously don’t give a about what is going on when football is being played, but only when the band is playing, and then they leave, even if it is a good game. But hey, if you like the band, thank a band parent. They are the ones who keeps kids coming to the band, because if it weren’t for band parents, I would say about 75% of kids in band would quit band if their parents never forced them to be in band.

Now for my experience in middle school band. I played the trombone, and I was the best at it in my class. Our jazz band was pretty good. I actually earned some awards for my solos and our jazz band was awarded some of the best show awards. But man, did I not want to do that . I only joined band in middle school because my father would not shut the up about it. I had a natural talent in it to. I picked up playing the trombone quickly and my father would force me to practice every so often, until I would practice at school just to get out of math class. Our middle school jazz band went to Kings Dominion for a competition in my 8th grade year, and I was awarded the best solo. It felt good, but I shrugged it off because I knew band was not going to be in my future. When we got back from the park, I received congratulations for my accomplishments from my peers. But I was asked even more about my experience at the park. I think that says it right there. Nobody asked me about my solo, but they asked me about the amusement park trip.

Lastly, more closing points. I never saw a band member on prom court. I never saw band member date a wanted man or have seggs with a hot woman when I was in high school. All the guys in our band smelled like Mountain Dew and Axe and all the girls in our band were built like Honey Boo-Boo and looked like Peyton Manning. Last that I checked, girls wanted guys who swore they were going D1 (we had guys at our school who were going D1 so I’ll give them their credit), pushed a half ounce of low quality reefer to our school, guys who hosted parties, or guys who just had it when it came to women, and the guys wanted women who looked like Alexis Texas or Teanna Trump. I never saw a band guy try to fight their bully in high school because they know they’d get their butt kicked. The guys in band also drove their parents econoboxes (me and my brother bought our own car and we knew what to pick out). Just like how all the ratchet girls would blow guys underneath the staircase for a free 8th, girls in band will blow the band director for free valve/slide grease or reeds for the saxophonists/clarinet players. All the girls in band wore obnoxiously noticeable mascara and foxtails between their legs because they were furries. Band guys now sound like girls and band girls sound like guys.

I will not say anything about the cheerleaders because most of the time they know they don’t matter.

I rest my case.
 
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gneiss rocks

Well-known member
A few points, sorry if repeat "I didn't read entire thread"
You really can't make a kid like band or football when both require much work to be successful. But some schools like Marion local are top notch at both and have football players marching at halftime...along with being among the top few academic performers of all schools public and private. They can be compatible and complimentary....LOL, by the way our band can beat your football team at football...

Many young males are full of piss and vinegar ( testosterone). Many seriously need a aggressive outlet and today's society typically does not have enough, gives these kids a outlet and they must maintain grades. For tens of thousands every year, they would quit academically/school, society without this aggressive outlet that also helps with team building, getting along with others, structure, controlled aggression ect. The world is better with football.
Many smaller schools have band but not football, should band be eliminated? Any difference?
 

Zunardo

Well-known member
My father was in band at the right time to be in band at the coolest position. He played the drums and I will admit he is good at it, to this day. I have told him time and time again that people don’t give two damns about band. Nobody gives a if you’re good at playing the drums
Now we're getting somewhere.

Who else thinks high school drumming has gone downhill with the new technology? Part of the problem may be the watered-down sound of today's drums. Those modern Kevlar snare heads just give off a whimpy "pop" with no resonance, no buzz, no depth - no soul. The drum roll that kicks off the National Anthem sounds like it's being played on bongos. And the bass drums sound like a click track. Fans should be demanding a return to maple or oak shells with Mylar heads, if not calfskin.

Face it, chicks go for the horn players, not the drummers. Every girl's crazy 'bout a well-embouchured man.
 

Gbulldog

Well-known member
I am on the younger side of things and I work in with high schoolers, so I will give people the most raw, honest, detailed, and uncut truth in this debate.

Nobody other than band parents and alum could give two sh!ts about the band. Other than the percussion group, if my school were to drop band, I wouldn’t notice. My administration at our alumnus wouldn’t give a if the arts department ed off. The teachers (other than the arts teachers) wouldn’t give a . And about 97% of the people who come to our school’s game wouldn’t give a either.

I work with young people all the time and I graduated from high school recently. I ran cross country and track. I was good at it. I never aspired to run in college (unless it was P5), but I was all-state as an individual and won multiple regional and county championships. Nobody gave a about us either. Nobody gave a that I could run the mile in 4:37 or run the 800m in 2:02. Other than my teammates, I never had a full-on, in-depth conversation about running with any of my peers other than how me and my team performed at meets. At a triangular XC meet, there would be no more than 100 people there, and they were all family and friends of runners. I was content with that though. I can’t watch a whole track meet on TV. I’ll watch the championship races from 100m-1500m, the hurdles, and the field events, but I’m not watching six hours of people running.

First off, we need to understand the psychology of band parents/alum and current band members like E-Town. More in particular, the old-school ones. I would know, my father and older brother were both in band. My father had his own band and he actually performed with ‘Kix’ before they got famous in the 80’s, if you know who they are. My father was pi$$ed that I chose not to do band in high school. In middle school, picked band over general music theory just so he could shut the up. He was his most proud of me when I was in band. I know it. He obviously did not tell me that, but I knew it.

First off, the current band members. A heavy majority of the time, current and previous band members only care about themselves and their performances. They sit together with each other at lunch. They have sleepovers with each other. They smoke Mary Jane out of their brass instruments together. And the guys in band will use a single trombone as a fleshlight, while the girls would use a drum stick or a flute as a dild0. They play Mario-Kart on their Nintendo DS or Wii U. And they watch hentai together as well. Some of them become buskers. Others start a band. And some of them become producers (only type of band member that I’d hang out with unless we ran XC or track together). These peculiar people don’t have conversations with people who are not in band. Band members act like all football players and athletes in general are bullies and are disrespectful, but they are scared to have a conversation with them. Now I do know athletes that were bullies and/or disrespected anyone who was not in their circle, but there was only one or two of them. I generally avoided them because I was not trying to be seen as a bully OR a preppy guy who is only going to college so he looks qualified to take over his father’s business. But really most athletes are willing to have a conversation with anyone if it is about themselves or something they are interested in. I didn’t like a lot of people in high school, and a lot my male peers hated on me for a very teen age reason, but I could still talk with the peers who didn’t like me about music, partying, or the NBA or NFL. Band members fail to realize this though. They watch movies like Grease and Napoleon Dynamite and think that is every jock.

Now for the previous band members. Majority of these people peaked in high school. They want to be famous, and high school was the closest they were going to get to acquiring said fame. My father was in band at the right time to be in band at the coolest position. He played the drums and I will admit he is good at it, to this day. I have told him time and time again that people don’t give two damns about band. Nobody gives a if you’re good at playing the drums (I’ll get into this later on in my rant). But what previous members will never admit is that they peaked in high school. High school was the best time of their lives. I had a good time in high school for several reasons as well, but I had more fun in college and I am an Army Reserve member who was active duty in the past. I had a lot of fun there as well. Track and XC was fun and I miss it. But I am over it as well. I wish I did some things differently, but it was a good experience and I wouldn’t trade it in for anything. Luckily for me though, I was handsome in high school, I was voted best dressed, and I had the meanest mouthpiece out of my class since the 7th grade, and I’m still all of this, so running wasn’t even the peak of my high school career. I would walk into a high school party and I would get greeted immediately at the door by about 50 people, and it was mostly girls, while I could see a lot of guys choosing to give me the stink eye rather than asking me for some advice. But a lot of that is trivial to me because none of that will be benchmarks of your future success. Past band members only had band because they were busy doing the things I listed above with their band mates. All that culminated to leaking in high school.

Last but not least, band parents. Oftentimes, band parents force their kids to join the band just so it looks better on their college application for when they apply to Miami of Ohio. My older brother was playing the piano in the 2nd grade, so he actually wanted to be in the band. But even though I was an athlete, my father was still pressing me about joining our high school’s band. It’s all he ever talked about my 8th grade year. Whether he asked me politely to do so, drunkenly argue with me about it, or tempt me with some bullsh!t offer, I told him no. I was in our middle school’s jazz band (more on that later) and I didn’t want to do any of that . I would try to break my instrument on purpose if it meant not having to do that . But band parents are usually fed lies by their children. “All the football players are bullies” “A lot of people care about band” “I got the hottest girlfriend/nicest boyfriend and she/he is in band”. The lies can be small fibs or egregious tall tales, but band parents will believe it because it is their kid. Some band parents just want to see their kid get their diploma and go to college. Some will be living their past through them. Others are trying to keep a worthless family tradition going. But all band parents usually had one thing in common, which is that they either had no life in high school OR their only extracurricular activity was band. See, band parents obviously don’t give a about what is going on when football is being played, but only when the band is playing, and then they leave, even if it is a good game. But hey, if you like the band, thank a band parent. They are the ones who keeps kids coming to the band, because if it weren’t for band parents, I would say about 75% of kids in band would quit band if their parents never forced them to be in band.

Now for my experience in middle school band. I played the trombone, and I was the best at it in my class. Our jazz band was pretty good. I actually earned some awards for my solos and our jazz band was awarded some of the best show awards. But man, did I not want to do that . I only joined band in middle school because my father would not shut the up about it. I had a natural talent in it to. I picked up playing the trombone quickly and my father would force me to practice every so often, until I would practice at school just to get out of math class. Our middle school jazz band went to Kings Dominion for a competition in my 8th grade year, and I was awarded the best solo. It felt good, but I shrugged it off because I knew band was not going to be in my future. When we got back from the park, I received congratulations for my accomplishments from my peers. But I was asked even more about my experience at the park. I think that says it right there. Nobody asked me about my solo, but they asked me about the amusement park trip.

Lastly, more closing points. I never saw a band member on prom court. I never saw band member date a wanted man or have seggs with a hot woman when I was in high school. All the guys in our band smelled like Mountain Dew and Axe and all the girls in our band were built like Honey Boo-Boo and looked like Peyton Manning. Last that I checked, girls wanted guys who swore they were going D1 (we had guys at our school who were going D1 so I’ll give them their credit), pushed a half ounce of low quality reefer to our school, guys who hosted parties, or guys who just had it when it came to women, and the guys wanted women who looked like Alexis Texas or Teanna Trump. I never saw a band guy try to fight their bully in high school because they know they’d get their butt kicked. The guys in band also drove their parents econoboxes (me and my brother bought our own car and we knew what to pick out). All the girls in band wore obnoxiously noticeable mascara and foxtails between their legs because they were furries. Band guys now sound like girls and band girls sound like guys.

I will not say anything about the cheerleaders because most of the time they know they don’t matter.

I rest my case.
My head is spinning
 

playboi12

Well-known member
If your gonna buy 100 players to be on the sideline and not even attempt to have a comparable band, your school is a complete joke. It just shows that your supposedly all caring religious school really only cares about athletes and not tuba players.
I’m not sending my kid to Hoban to play the tuba.
 
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serpico

Well-known member
It didn't used to be like that. What has made the difference in both cheerleading and halftime shows are the camps and competition. The cheer squad goes to camp and learns complex cheers and routines. Competition bands learn one show and use football games as a dress rehearsal for Saturday competitions. How much excitement can be exacted from a crowd when the halftime show every week is based on Ravel's "Pavane for a Dead Infant," complete with huge props and solo clarinet? How much spirit can materialize when the cheerleaders are more interested in building their pyramid than getting the crowd to vocally support the team? Those days are long gone, as the auxiliary parts of the football atmosphere don't see the game as the most important part of their activity.
This sounds like a local problem endemic to your school or area. It’s certainly not the case at the school I follow. The cheerleaders try their damndest to get the crown involved, and during the game the band is playing up-tempo music to keep things lively.
 

Sykotyk

Well-known member
Certainly applies to at least some schools. It wasn't always so, though. At my school fifty years ago we had those things called pep rallies, and most of the students learned the cheers through repetition, and there was a lot more participation.

When you get down to it, you don't need a band. You don't need cheerleaders. You don't need a scoreboard with a clock or stadium lights. For that matter, you don't even need fans.

But they're certainly nice to have, since they still add to the pageantry that goes along with the game. :cool:
Spring of 2021, saw several games in Philly with exactly that. No fans, no band, no cheerleaders, and no scoreboard. Just a decrepit field, some officials, and two teams.

Example:


Definitely agree, it loses something. But it's not as unnerving as you'd think. Once the game starts it feels like any other game unless you consciously look for it.
 

firewatch

Well-known member
Sounds like football players aren't competent enough to attend college, so they should study music theory so they can get into college, where they'll keep working hard, earn a degree in American History, and get a job as a welder or truck driver? Maybe if they really put in a lot of extra time, they can own their own landscaping company or work for Amazon's logistics dept.? Please help me understand how this thread isn't trolling.
The world needs Ditch Diggers too.

Signed
Judge Smails
 
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