NCAA Rankings 1/31/23 - 10 Things about Spencer Lee

B

bdhof

Well-known member
OK, before we get to the rankings, let's talk about Spencer Lee. While some seemed to diminish his chances to capture a 4th NCAA title (calling him "No Knees" Lee - I believe the culprit was bdhof), Lee is near the end of what will be an historic career. Here's 10 things you may or may not know about Lee.
1) Spencer Lee has been ranked #1 at 125 seemingly forever. Now, he did miss most of 2022 w/ a MRS, but was 3-0 and #1 when his season prematurely ended due to injury. He was ranked #1 all of 2021 going undefeated and winning NCAAs, ranked #1 all of 2020 going undefeated (NCAA Covid year canceled NCAAs), and probably ranked #1 much of 2019 which is the last time he lost (3x). He entered the NCAAs that year as the defending champ, but a loss to Rivera at B10s along w/ an earlier loss to Rivera and a loss to Piccinni OKST had him entered as the #3 seed. He avenged the Piccinni loss w/ an 11-4 semi win and had to settle for a win in the finals vs Mueller UVA who upset Rivera in the other semis. So, his #1 ranking has held since November of 2019, 3+ years ago.
2) Spencer Lee holds 2 Hodge Trophies, joining Steveson MIN, Retherford PSU, Taylor PSU, Askren MIZ, and Sanderson ISU (who has 3). That's pretty good company.
3) Spencer Lee will hold 3 Hodge Trophies at the end of this season barring injury. Only Sanderson has 3, and like Lee, has shared the Hodge w/ another wrestler. Lee shared his 2nd Hodge w/ Steveson and Sanderson shared his 2nd Hodge w/ Ackerman Simpson College. These mark the only 2 Xs that the Hodge was shared. That's pretty good company.
4) Spencer Lee will win his 4th NCAA Championship this year barring injury, joining Pat Smith OKST, Sanderson, Dake, and our won Logan Stieber tOSU. Likely Yianni COR will join this group as well. That's pretty good company.
5) Spencer Lee has 5 losses in 6 years of competition (one shortened by MRS injury), and none since 2019.
6) Spencer Lee is in his 6th year of wrestling (one shortened by MRS injury). He lost one NCAA tournament due to Covid and gained an extra year as part ot the Covid makeup rule.
7A) Spencer Lee has 7 falls this year in 11 matches. He also has 2 TFs and 2 MDs giving him a perfect bonus rate of 100%. I'm not sure if anyone ever went 100% before. Dan Gable and the aforementioned Dan Hodge come to mind, but I don't think either did it.
7B) And 7 years ago Spencer Lee won his 2nd JR World Championship. This was Spencer's 3rd age group World Title.
8) Spencer Lee won his 1st JR World Championship 8 years ago. This was Spencer' 2nd age group World Title.
9) Spencer Lee won his 1st Cadet World Title 9 years ago. This was Spencer's 1st age group Word Title.
10) Spencer Lee...
OK, I really don't have anything for "10." But NCAA fans are witnessing the final chapter in what has been an incredible NCAA career. Whether or not he can continue at the SR level is another issue. He likely won't go down as the NCAA GOAT. That title seems to be reserved for Mr. Perfect Cael Sanderson. But he could make a great argument for #2. None of the other 4Xers faced the injuries that Spencer has. He took one for the team, wrestling when few others would have, to ensure his team the NCAA championships. And while I always disliked Iowa wrestlers (except OH guys), Spencer is as classy and likeable of a guy as you'll see on the mat. The only time I disliked him is when he decked Tomasello at the NCAAs.

And on to the rankings...
 
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Top 10
1 Penn State Big Ten 107.5 1
2 Iowa Big Ten 77.5 2
3 Missouri Big 12 67.5 3
4 Cornell EIWA 61.5 4
5 Nebraska Big Ten 58 5
6 Pittsburgh ACC 50.5 7
7 Virginia Tech ACC 45 8
8 Iowa State Big 12 44.5 6
9 Northwestern Big Ten 42.5 9(T)
10 Ohio State Big Ten 39 11
 
125
1 Spencer Lee Iowa Senior Big Ten 11-0 1
2 Patrick Glory Princeton Senior EIWA 12-0 2
3 Matt Ramos Purdue Sophomore Big Ten 23-3 3
4 Killian Cardinale West Virginia Senior Big 12 8-0 4
5 Liam Cronin Nebraska Senior Big Ten 14-3 5
6 Patrick McKee Minnesota Junior Big Ten 10-2 7
7 Eric Barnett Wisconsin Senior Big Ten 14-5 8
8 Michael DeAugustino Northwestern Junior Big Ten 3-4 6
9 Brandon Courtney Arizona State Senior Pac-12 6-2 9
10 Malik Heinselman Ohio State Senior Big Ten 18-2 10
11 Anthony Noto Lock Haven Sophomore MAC 20-2 12
12 Dean Peterson Rutgers Freshman Big Ten 18-5 11
 
133
1 Roman Bravo-Young Penn State Senior Big Ten 10-0 1
2 Daton Fix Oklahoma State Junior Big 12 16-0 2
3 Vito Arujau Cornell Junior EIWA 12-1 3
4 Michael McGee Arizona State Senior Pac-12 14-2 4
5 Connor McGonagle Lehigh Junior EIWA 9-2 6
6 Micky Phillippi Pittsburgh Senior ACC 9-1 7
7 Sam Latona Virginia Tech Sophomore ACC 19-5 5
8 Michael Colaiocco Penn Junior EIWA 18-3 8
9 Jesse Mendez Ohio State Freshman Big Ten 11-1 9
10 Lucas Byrd Illinois Junior Big Ten 20-3 10
11 Kyle Biscoglia Northern Iowa Junior Big 12 15-5 11
12 Dylan Ragusin Michigan Sophomore Big Ten 12-5 12
 
141
1 Andrew Alirez Northern Colorado Junior Big 12 16-0 1
2 Real Woods Iowa Junior Big Ten 10-0 2
3 Cole Matthews Pittsburgh Junior ACC 13-1 3
4 Ryan Jack NC State Sophomore ACC 17-1 5
5 Beau Bartlett Penn State Sophomore Big Ten 14-1 4
6 Brock Hardy Nebraska Sophomore Big Ten 20-3 6
7 Allan Hart Missouri Senior Big 12 11-2 7
8 Frankie Tal-Shahar Northwestern Sophomore Big Ten 5-4 11
9 Mosha Schwartz Oklahoma Junior Big 12 16-2 27
10 Cael Happel Northern Iowa Sophomore Big 12 12-4 8
11 Clay Carlson South Dakota State Junior Big 12 15-6 10
12 Tom Crook Virginia Tech Freshman ACC 13-6 12
19 Dylan D'Emilio Ohio State Sophomore Big Ten 12-6 18
 
149
1 Yianni Diakomihalis Cornell Senior EIWA 9-1 1
2 Austin Gomez Wisconsin Junior Big Ten 10-2 2
3 Sammy Sasso Ohio State Senior Big Ten 18-2 3
4 Yahya Thomas Northwestern Senior Big Ten 17-1 4
5 Kyle Parco Arizona State Sophomore Pac-12 17-4 5
6 Max Murin Iowa Senior Big Ten 14-3 7
7 Brock Mauller Missouri Senior Big 12 10-1 8
8 Caleb Henson Virginia Tech Freshman ACC 16-3 9
9 Jonathan Millner Appalachian State Senior SoCon 22-3 10
10 Paniro Johnson Iowa State Freshman Big 12 10-3 6
11 Jaden Abas Stanford Sophomore Pac-12 18-4 11
12 Doug Zapf Penn Senior EIWA 16-5 12
 
157
1 Peyton Robb Nebraska Junior Big Ten 19-0 1
2 Jared Franek North Dakota State Junior Big 12 15-1 2
3 Austin O’Connor North Carolina Senior ACC 13-0 3
4 Josh Humphreys Lehigh Senior EIWA 9-0 4
5 Bryce Andonian Virginia Tech Junior ACC 5-0 5
6 Kendall Coleman Purdue Junior Big Ten 24-3 6
7 Ed Scott NC State Sophomore ACC 13-5 7
8 Jarrett Jacques Missouri Senior Big 12 12-2 8
9 Levi Haines Penn State Freshman Big Ten 15-1 9
10 Will Lewan Michigan Junior Big Ten 13-4 10
11 Trevor Chumbley Northwestern Sophomore Big Ten 19-4 12
12 Chase Saldate Michigan State Sophomore Big Ten 19-4 13
25 Paddy Gallagher Ohio State Freshman Big Ten 8-4 23
 
165
1 Keegan O’Toole Missouri Sophomore Big 12 10-0 1
2 David Carr Iowa State Junior Big 12 14-0 2
3 Quincy Monday Princeton Senior EIWA 15-0 3
4 Shane Griffith Stanford Junior Pac-12 18-1 4
5 Cameron Amine Michigan Sophomore Big Ten 9-2 6
6 Dean Hamiti Wisconsin Sophomore Big Ten 16-3 7
7 Patrick Kennedy Iowa Sophomore Big Ten 13-2 13
8 Alex Facundo Penn State Freshman Big Ten 11-2 5
9 Julian Ramirez Cornell Sophomore EIWA 17-3 8
10 Peyton Hall West Virginia Sophomore Big 12 18-2 11
11 Mikey Caliendo North Dakota State Freshman Big 12 16-2 12
12 Carson Kharchla Ohio State Sophomore Big Ten 8-2 9
 
174
1 Carter Starocci Penn State Sophomore Big Ten 11-0 1
2 Mikey Labriola Nebraska Senior Big Ten 20-0 2
3 Mekhi Lewis Virginia Tech Junior ACC 13-1 3
4 Chris Foca Cornell Sophomore EIWA 18-1 4
5 Michael O’Malley Drexel Junior EIWA 9-0 5
6 Dustin Plott Oklahoma State Sophomore Big 12 15-1 6
7 Ethan Smith Ohio State Senior Big Ten 14-3 8
8 Clay Lautt North Carolina Senior ACC 6-2 9
9 Demetrius Romero Utah Valley Senior Big 12 11-2 7
10 Peyton Mocco Missouri Junior Big 12 14-3 11
11 Bailee O'Reilly Minnesota Senior Big Ten 13-3 15
12 Edmond Ruth Illinois Sophomore Big Ten 22-2 10
 
184
1 Aaron Brooks Penn State Junior Big Ten 7-1 1
2 Parker Keckeisen Northern Iowa Sophomore Big 12 14-1 2
3 Trent Hidlay NC State Junior ACC 15-1 3
4 Marcus Coleman Iowa State Senior Big 12 13-1 4
5 Kaleb Romero Ohio State Senior Big Ten 19-3 5
6 Jonathan Loew Cornell Junior EIWA 7-1 6
7 Trey Munoz Oregon State Sophomore Pac-12 18-1 9
8 Hunter Bolen Virginia Tech Senior ACC 15-4 7
9 Matt Finesilver Michigan Senior Big Ten 16-5 8
10 Isaiah Salazar Minnesota Sophomore Big Ten 14-1 10
11 Travis Wittlake Oklahoma State Junior Big 12 12-2 11
12 Abe Assad Iowa Junior Big Ten 14-2 12
 
197
1 Rocky Elam Missouri Sophomore Big 12 5-0 1
2 Nino Bonaccorsi Pittsburgh Senior ACC 10-0 2
3 Michael Beard Lehigh Sophomore EIWA 13-2 3
4 Max Dean Penn State Senior Big Ten 13-2 4
5 Yonger Bastida Iowa State Junior Big 12 12-1 5
6 Bernie Truax Cal Poly Senior Pac-12 9-1 6
7 Jacob Warner Iowa Senior Big Ten 11-3 7
8 Ethan Laird Rider Senior MAC 16-1 8
9 Isaac Trumble NC State Sophomore ACC 15-2 9
10 Zac Braunagel Illinois Junior Big Ten 19-3 10
11 Tanner Sloan South Dakota State Junior Big 12 17-1 11
12 Owen Pentz North Dakota State Sophomore Big 12 11-4 13
17 Gavin Hoffman Ohio State Junior Big Ten 15-4 21
 
285
1 Mason Parris Michigan Senior Big Ten 21-0 1
2 Greg Kerkvliet Penn State Sophomore Big Ten 9-1 2
3 Tony Cassioppi Iowa Senior Big Ten 16-1 3
4 Lucas Davison Northwestern Junior Big Ten 15-2 4
5 Dayton Pitzer Pittsburgh Freshman ACC 6-1 5
6 Cohlton Schultz Arizona State Sophomore Pac-12 14-2 6
7 Wyatt Hendrickson Air Force Junior Big 12 19-1 7
8 Zach Elam Missouri Senior Big 12 13-1 8
9 Yaraslau Slavikouski Harvard Junior EIWA 20-3 9
10 Sam Schuyler Iowa State Senior Big 12 10-2 10
11 Trent Hillger Wisconsin Senior Big Ten 12-6 11
12 Owen Trephan NC State Sophomore ACC 16-3 12
18 Tate Orndorff Ohio State Senior Big Ten 9-3 16
 
bdhof said:
OK, before we get to the rankings, let's talk about Spencer Lee. While some seemed to diminish his chances to capture a 4th NCAA title (calling him "No Knees" Lee - I believe the culprit was bdhof), Lee is near the end of what will be an historic career. Here's 10 things you may or may not know about Lee.
1) Spencer Lee has been ranked #1 at 125 seemingly forever. Now, he did miss most of 2022 w/ a MRS, but was 3-0 and #1 when his season prematurely ended due to injury. He was ranked #1 all of 2021 going undefeated and winning NCAAs, ranked #1 all of 2020 going undefeated (NCAA Covid year canceled NCAAs), and probably ranked #1 much of 2019 which is the last time he lost (3x). He entered the NCAAs that year as the defending champ, but a loss to Rivera at B10s along w/ an earlier loss to Rivera and a loss to Piccinni OKST had him entered as the #3 seed. He avenged the Piccinni loss w/ an 11-4 semi win and had to settle for a win in the finals vs Mueller UVA who upset Rivera in the other semis. So, his #1 ranking has held since November of 2019, 3+ years ago.
2) Spencer Lee holds 2 Hodge Trophies, joining Steveson MIN, Retherford PSU, Taylor PSU, Askren MIZ, and Sanderson ISU (who has 3). That's pretty good company.
3) Spencer Lee will hold 3 Hodge Trophies at the end of this season barring injury. Only Sanderson has 3, and like Lee, has shared the Hodge w/ another wrestler. Lee shared his 2nd Hodge w/ Steveson and Sanderson shared his 2nd Hodge w/ Ackerman Simpson College. These mark the only 2 Xs that the Hodge was shared. That's pretty good company.
4) Spencer Lee will win his 4th NCAA Championship this year barring injury, joining Pat Smith OKST, Sanderson, Dake, Taylor, and our won Logan Stieber tOSU. Likely Yianni COR will join this group as well. That's pretty good company.
5) Spencer Lee has 5 losses in 6 years of competition (one shortened by MRS injury), and none since 2019.
6) Spencer Lee is in his 6th year of wrestling (one shortened by MRS injury). He lost one NCAA tournament due to Covid and gained an extra year as part ot the Covid makeup rule.
7A) Spencer Lee has 7 falls this year in 11 matches. He also has 2 TFs and 2 MDs giving him a perfect bonus rate of 100%. I'm not sure if anyone ever went 100% before. Dan Gable and the aforementioned Dan Hodge come to mind, but I don't think either did it.
7B) And 7 years ago Spencer Lee won his 2nd JR World Championship. This was Spencer's 3rd age group World Title.
8) Spencer Lee won his 1st JR World Championship 8 years ago. This was Spencer' 2nd age group World Title.
9) Spencer Lee won his 1st Cadet World Title 9 years ago. This was Spencer's 1st age group Word Title.
10) Spencer Lee...
OK, I really don't have anything for "10." But NCAA fans are witnessing the final chapter in what has been an incredible NCAA career. Whether or not he can continue at the SR level is another issue. He likely won't go down as the NCAA GOAT. That title seems to be reserved for Mr. Perfect Cael Sanderson. But he could make a great argument for #2. None of the other 4Xers faced the injuries that Spencer has. He took one for the team, wrestling when few others would have, to ensure his team the NCAA championships. And while I always disliked Iowa wrestlers (except OH guys), Spencer is as classy and likeable of a guy as you'll see on the mat. The only time I disliked him is when he decked Tomasello at the NCAAs.

And on to the rankings...
Click to expand...
I bought ALL in to the Spencer "hype" when he pinned Tomasello as a true frosh, who was 1 tough SOB. I dont know the last time Tomasello was ever pinned, and it was NO FLUKE. I'm a SUPER fan , and he deserves EVERY accolade including SUPERSTAR HUMBLE award. He dismantled Piciccini in a rematch, as well. Seeing him tear apart teching Vito Araju in FS ....also was incredible. I'm convinced Spencer would have been our Rep instead of Gilman ALL DAY LONG were it not for the knees. And I dont know how anyone could see it any differently ....It's a shame his career Internationally will never come to fruition due to injuries. The Only 125 the last 20 years I could see beating him when it counted would have been Abas, he was strong enough to likely not give up hand control from bottom resulting in a bar , and just so good on his feet . His loss to Rivera the second time was very controversial , and this was the year there were rumors of mono he ran out of gas the year he lost those 3 matches which as nothing like his normal pace.
 
bdhof said:
OK, before we get to the rankings, let's talk about Spencer Lee. While some seemed to diminish his chances to capture a 4th NCAA title (calling him "No Knees" Lee - I believe the culprit was bdhof), Lee is near the end of what will be an historic career. Here's 10 things you may or may not know about Lee.
1) Spencer Lee has been ranked #1 at 125 seemingly forever. Now, he did miss most of 2022 w/ a MRS, but was 3-0 and #1 when his season prematurely ended due to injury. He was ranked #1 all of 2021 going undefeated and winning NCAAs, ranked #1 all of 2020 going undefeated (NCAA Covid year canceled NCAAs), and probably ranked #1 much of 2019 which is the last time he lost (3x). He entered the NCAAs that year as the defending champ, but a loss to Rivera at B10s along w/ an earlier loss to Rivera and a loss to Piccinni OKST had him entered as the #3 seed. He avenged the Piccinni loss w/ an 11-4 semi win and had to settle for a win in the finals vs Mueller UVA who upset Rivera in the other semis. So, his #1 ranking has held since November of 2019, 3+ years ago.
2) Spencer Lee holds 2 Hodge Trophies, joining Steveson MIN, Retherford PSU, Taylor PSU, Askren MIZ, and Sanderson ISU (who has 3). That's pretty good company.
3) Spencer Lee will hold 3 Hodge Trophies at the end of this season barring injury. Only Sanderson has 3, and like Lee, has shared the Hodge w/ another wrestler. Lee shared his 2nd Hodge w/ Steveson and Sanderson shared his 2nd Hodge w/ Ackerman Simpson College. These mark the only 2 Xs that the Hodge was shared. That's pretty good company.
4) Spencer Lee will win his 4th NCAA Championship this year barring injury, joining Pat Smith OKST, Sanderson, Dake, Taylor, and our won Logan Stieber tOSU. Likely Yianni COR will join this group as well. That's pretty good company.
5) Spencer Lee has 5 losses in 6 years of competition (one shortened by MRS injury), and none since 2019.
6) Spencer Lee is in his 6th year of wrestling (one shortened by MRS injury). He lost one NCAA tournament due to Covid and gained an extra year as part ot the Covid makeup rule.
7A) Spencer Lee has 7 falls this year in 11 matches. He also has 2 TFs and 2 MDs giving him a perfect bonus rate of 100%. I'm not sure if anyone ever went 100% before. Dan Gable and the aforementioned Dan Hodge come to mind, but I don't think either did it.
7B) And 7 years ago Spencer Lee won his 2nd JR World Championship. This was Spencer's 3rd age group World Title.
8) Spencer Lee won his 1st JR World Championship 8 years ago. This was Spencer' 2nd age group World Title.
9) Spencer Lee won his 1st Cadet World Title 9 years ago. This was Spencer's 1st age group Word Title.
10) Spencer Lee...
OK, I really don't have anything for "10." But NCAA fans are witnessing the final chapter in what has been an incredible NCAA career. Whether or not he can continue at the SR level is another issue. He likely won't go down as the NCAA GOAT. That title seems to be reserved for Mr. Perfect Cael Sanderson. But he could make a great argument for #2. None of the other 4Xers faced the injuries that Spencer has. He took one for the team, wrestling when few others would have, to ensure his team the NCAA championships. And while I always disliked Iowa wrestlers (except OH guys), Spencer is as classy and likeable of a guy as you'll see on the mat. The only time I disliked him is when he decked Tomasello at the NCAAs.

And on to the rankings...
Click to expand...
#4 Unless I fell asleep Taylor did not win 4 titles, one due to Dake beating him.
 
#11 - Spencer Lee is still wrestling at a High School Weight. A Senior versus many many under class men.

I know i know but but but .

Great Wrestler but he never had to move up a weight class or really put himself out there to prove his greatness.

He's no David Taylor who at SPG moved up a weight class or two in a dual with St Ed's to take on and beat a 4x Ohio Champ at a Division above him.
 
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TCSoup said:
#11 - Spencer Lee is still wrestling at a High School Weight. A Senior versus many many under class men.

I know i know but but but .

Great Wrestler but he never had to move up a weight class or really put himself out there to prove his greatness.

He's no David Taylor who at SPG moved up a weight class or two in a dual with St Ed's to take on and beat a 4x Ohio Champ at a Division above him.
Click to expand...
I mean huge props to DT for that but it was a 5 pound difference in weight. If you don’t think Spencer had proven his greatness I don’t know what to tell you. Dude won an NCAA title with both knees screwed up.
 
Old142 said:
I bought ALL in to the Spencer "hype" when he pinned Tomasello as a true frosh, who was 1 tough SOB. I dont know the last time Tomasello was ever pinned, and it was NO FLUKE. I'm a SUPER fan , and he deserves EVERY accolade including SUPERSTAR HUMBLE award. He dismantled Piciccini in a rematch, as well. Seeing him tear apart teching Vito Araju in FS ....also was incredible. I'm convinced Spencer would have been our Rep instead of Gilman ALL DAY LONG were it not for the knees. And I dont know how anyone could see it any differently ....It's a shame his career Internationally will never come to fruition due to injuries. The Only 125 the last 20 years I could see beating him when it counted would have been Abas, he was strong enough to likely not give up hand control from bottom resulting in a bar , and just so good on his feet . His loss to Rivera the second time was very controversial , and this was the year there were rumors of mono he ran out of gas the year he lost those 3 matches which as nothing like his normal pace.
Click to expand...
Would have loved to see Anthony Robles vs Spencer Lee. One good knee vs zero!
 
bdhof said:
7B) And 7 years ago Spencer Lee won his 2nd JR World Championship. This was Spencer's 3rd age group World Title.
8) Spencer Lee won his 1st JR World Championship 8 years ago. This was Spencer' 2nd age group World Title.
9) Spencer Lee won his 1st Cadet World Title 9 years ago. This was Spencer's 1st age group Word Title.
Click to expand...
One fun fact about each of these:

2014 U17- Spencer Lee wins 50kg. 11th place in that bracket was Takuto Otoguro, who won gold at Tokyo in 2021 at 65kg
2015 U20- Spencer was actually 17 at the time and tried to wrestle Cadets, but was beaten by Daton Fix for the spot. Fix won bronze at Cadets, Spencer wins gold at Juniors
2016 U20- A Junior world team of Spencer Lee, Daton Fix, Seth Gross, Alec Pantaleo, Mark Hall, Zahid Valencia, Kollin Moore, and Jordan Wood only won three medals- two golds and a bronze for Daton. It's a tough tourney!
 
TCSoup said:
#11 - Spencer Lee is still wrestling at a High School Weight. A Senior versus many many under class men.

I know i know but but but .

Great Wrestler but he never had to move up a weight class or really put himself out there to prove his greatness.

He's no David Taylor who at SPG moved up a weight class or two in a dual with St Ed's to take on and beat a 4x Ohio Champ at a Division above him.
Click to expand...
He has beaten "older" guys many times his entire life in Age group competition. Tomasello was one of the best 125's the last decade or more, Spencer as a true frosh pins him. .....125 has at times been the toughest weight in the NCAA tournament or at least top 3 , it certainly had several TOP guys when Lee first stepped on the mat as a true frosh. 125 Pounders repeatedly move up in weight and have a ton of success at the higher weights, there is NO reason to believe Spencer wouldn't have done that as well as anyone. Taylor is phenomenal, but him "moving" up a weight in High school against Colin Palmer and winning a tight match really doesnt mean too much, Palmer was great but no Cary Kolat. And Taylor was NOT SMALL for his own weight class.
 
Old142 said:
He has beaten "older" guys many times his entire life in Age group competition. Tomasello was one of the best 125's the last decade or more, Spencer as a true frosh pins him. .....125 has at times been the toughest weight in the NCAA tournament or at least top 3 , it certainly had several TOP guys when Lee first stepped on the mat as a true frosh. 125 Pounders repeatedly move up in weight and have a ton of success at the higher weights, there is NO reason to believe Spencer wouldn't have done that as well as anyone. Taylor is phenomenal, but him "moving" up a weight in High school against Colin Palmer and winning a tight match really doesnt mean too much, Palmer was great but no Cary Kolat. And Taylor was NOT SMALL for his own weight class.
Click to expand...
I was at that meet when he beat Nate 3-2 Tomeasello beat him at Big Tens 2-1 . And then he pinned him at Nationals. Very impressive match for Lee. Taylor was once a 103 and dominated every weight class as he moved up in weight. Tomasello grew out of 125 as many 125's do by Junior / Senior year. Heck Ohio State hasn't been able to find a 125 big enough to fill that weight class. Finally maybe this year .
No disrespect for Lee his record speaks for itself i just wouldn't put him anywhere near the Mt Rushmore of College Wrestlers.
He's 24 years old now wrestling guys 3-6 years younger in the same weight class that was loaded his first 2 years but not near as strong overall now.
There's no Tomasello's or Rivera's or even Suriano's to get through since 2019 .
 
TCSoup said:
#11 - Spencer Lee is still wrestling at a High School Weight. A Senior versus many many under class men.

I know i know but but but .

Great Wrestler but he never had to move up a weight class or really put himself out there to prove his greatness.

He's no David Taylor who at SPG moved up a weight class or two in a dual with St Ed's to take on and beat a 4x Ohio Champ at a Division above him.
Click to expand...
8 of the top 10 at 125 are seniors, including #5 Cronin NEB (Spencer by fall 0:38), #7 Barnett WIS (Spencer by fall 4:38), and #8 DeAugustino NW (Spencer by fall 2:01). BTW, 125 is an Olympic weight as well.
 
TCSoup said:
I was at that meet when he beat Nate 3-2 Tomeasello beat him at Big Tens 2-1 . And then he pinned him at Nationals. Very impressive match for Lee. Taylor was once a 103 and dominated every weight class as he moved up in weight. Tomasello grew out of 125 as many 125's do by Junior / Senior year. Heck Ohio State hasn't been able to find a 125 big enough to fill that weight class. Finally maybe this year .
No disrespect for Lee his record speaks for itself i just wouldn't put him anywhere near the Mt Rushmore of College Wrestlers.
He's 24 years old now wrestling guys 3-6 years younger in the same weight class that was loaded his first 2 years but not near as strong overall now.
There's no Tomasello's or Rivera's or even Suriano's to get through since 2019 .
Click to expand...

intermatwrestle.com

Ranking top college wrestlers of all time

intermatwrestle.com intermatwrestle.com

The above IM link is a pretty good article on the greatest NCAA wrestlers of all time. It was written in 2019, so after Lee won his 2nd NCAA title. Obviously, there'd be some new names in both the rankings and Honorable Mention if this would be written after the 2023 NCAAs. Lee and Yianni are both likely to join the 4Xer club. Stieber is the lowest ranking member of that group at #6. The article and the rankings are interesting as it gives a summary of the accomplishments of the top 39. And OH is well represented.

NCAA GOATS
1. Cael Sanderson, Iowa State
2. Kyle Dake, Cornell
3. Yojiro Uetake, Oklahoma State
4. Dan Gable, Iowa State
5. Pat Smith, Oklahoma State
6. Logan Stieber, Ohio State
7. Dan Hodge, Oklahoma
8. Lee Kemp, Wisconsin
9. Mark Schultz, Oklahoma
10. Kyle Snyder, Ohio State
11. Ed Banach, Iowa
12. David Taylor, Penn State
13. Ben Askren, Missouri
14. Tom Brands, Iowa
15. John Smith, Oklahoma State
16. Zain Retherford, Penn State
17. Stephen Abas, Fresno State
18. Lincoln McIlravy, Iowa
19. Ed Ruth, Penn State
20. Gray Simons, Lock Haven
21. Kurt Angle, Clarion
22. Jordan Burroughs, Nebraska
23. Bill Koll, Northern Iowa
24. Alex Dieringer, Oklahoma State
25. Brent Metcalf, Iowa
26. Bo Nickal, Penn State
27. J'den Cox, Missouri
28. Stephen Neal, CSU Bakersfield
29. Mark Churella, Michigan
30. Nate Carr, Iowa State
31. Jason Nolf, Penn State
32. Kerry McCoy, Penn State
33. Randy Lewis, Iowa
34. Jake Varner, Iowa State
35. Barry Davis, Iowa
36. Cary Kolat, Lock Haven
37. Jake Herbert, Northwestern
38. T.J. Jaworsky, North Carolina
39. Carlton Haselrig, Pitt-Johnstown

Special mention
Carl Adams, Iowa State
Lou Banach, Iowa
Bruce Baumgartner, Indiana State
Ricky Bonomo, Bloomsburg
Terry Brands, Iowa
Darryl Burley, Lehigh
Chris Campbell, Iowa
Mike Caruso, Lehigh
Gabe Dean, Cornell
Eric Guerrero, Oklahoma State
Les Gutches, Oregon State
Nick Gwiazdowski, North Carolina State
Larry Hayes, Iowa State
Sammie Henson, Clemson
Stanley Henson, Oklahoma State
Mark Ironside, Iowa
Jimmy Jackson, Oklahoma State
Greg Johnson, Michigan State
Greg Jones, West Virginia
Jim Jordan, Wisconsin
Cole Konrad, Minnesota
Gerald Leeman, Northern Iowa
Isaiah Martinez, Illinois
Earl McCready, Oklahoma State
Andre Metzger, Oklahoma
Pat Milkovich, Michigan State
Steve Mocco, Iowa, Oklahoma State
Kenny Monday, Oklahoma State
Tony Nelson, Minnesota
Gene Mills, Syracuse
Bill Nelson, Northern Iowa
Jordan Oliver, Oklahoma State
Rex Peery, Oklahoma State
Chris Pendleton, Oklahoma State
Ben Peterson, Iowa State
Donny Pritzlaff, Wisconsin
Kevin Randleman, Ohio State
Myron Roderick, Oklahoma State
Jake Rosholt, Oklahoma State
Tommy Rowlands, Ohio State
Rick Sanders, Portland State
Wade Schalles, Clarion
Dave Schultz, Oklahoma
Bill Smith, Northern Iowa
Chris Taylor, Iowa State
T.J. Williams, Iowa
Joe Williams, Iowa
Jim Zalesky, Iowa
 
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bdhof said:
8 of the top 10 at 125 are seniors, including #5 Cronin NEB (Spencer by fall 0:38), #7 Barnett WIS (Spencer by fall 4:38), and #8 DeAugustino NW (Spencer by fall 2:01). BTW, 125 is an Olympic weight as well.
Click to expand...
I know your not trying to compare this years " Murders Row " to Nato, Suriano and Rivera .

But coming into this year the highest example you gave #5 Liam Cronin had a career record of 51-44 and in his 6th year of College Wrestling was never a NCAA AA or Placer . 1-2 in NCAA'S 4-3 in Big10 Meet with 9th and 5th being his top finish.
 
You said this;
TCSoup said:
#11 - Spencer Lee is still wrestling at a High School Weight. A Senior versus many many under class men.
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bdhof said this;
bdhof said:
8 of the top 10 at 125 are seniors, including #5 Cronin NEB (Spencer by fall 0:38), #7 Barnett WIS (Spencer by fall 4:38), and #8 DeAugustino NW (Spencer by fall 2:01).
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Not sure how you came up with this;
TCSoup said:
I know your not trying to compare this years " Murders Row " to Nato, Suriano and Rivera .
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I think its ok to say that Spencer Lee is an all-time great, AND say that his past few years at 125 has seen a pretty weak stable of competitors. It's what he is doing to those guys, that still holds him up at that top. He is teching and pinning pretty much everyone, its not like he is struggling. He proved himself against a few DEEP fields early in his career, and now he is mauling weak fields later in his career. He has more than proven himself.
 
TCSoup said:
I was at that meet when he beat Nate 3-2 Tomeasello beat him at Big Tens 2-1 . And then he pinned him at Nationals. Very impressive match for Lee. Taylor was once a 103 and dominated every weight class as he moved up in weight. Tomasello grew out of 125 as many 125's do by Junior / Senior year. Heck Ohio State hasn't been able to find a 125 big enough to fill that weight class. Finally maybe this year .
No disrespect for Lee his record speaks for itself i just wouldn't put him anywhere near the Mt Rushmore of College Wrestlers.
He's 24 years old now wrestling guys 3-6 years younger in the same weight class that was loaded his first 2 years but not near as strong overall now.
There's no Tomasello's or Rivera's or even Suriano's to get through since 2019 .
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Maybe, or maybe he is just that much better than the competition.
 
jujutsuguy219 said:
Maybe, or maybe he is just that much better than the competition.
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I don't doubt that for this years level of competition. Heck on one leg he's pinning everyone . In 2018-19 seasons he's probably wrestling for 3rd or 5th place at NCAA's. Because he wasn't beating those guys on one leg. JMO
 
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