Minimal Standard at Districts
- Thread starter Jowsepi
- Start date
JAVMAN83
Well-known member
Thank you. I've believed in this requirement for a long time. I know that my coach kept me out of districts my freshmen year in the pole vault even though I wouldn't have embarrased myself of the team. I wasn't vaulting high enough to be competitive at that point. I've always thought that there should be a minimum standard for district entries.
Edit: Competitive in my book means able to score in the top 6 at that time in the local Class AA district.
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Actually, I feel the opposite. Many teams don't put kids in that aren't competitive, and they end up not fielding enough athletes to qualify as a team. It's detrimental to the sport.
Additionally, so many kids benefit from the experience of running at districts, particularly those that don't go to major meets during the season. It's a great opportunity to get a broader view of the competition that's out there.
Additionally, so many kids benefit from the experience of running at districts, particularly those that don't go to major meets during the season. It's a great opportunity to get a broader view of the competition that's out there.
EuclidandViren
Well-known member
It could be a possibility next year in D1, not at the district level but at the regional level. With D1 probably not going to have a district competition in track, the prelims would be crazy. I cannot imagine prelims for the 3200 and 4x800.
I would imagine OHSAA trying to avoid minimal times at all costs. Rainouts and meets not loading into milesplit would be a disaster for qualification purposes. More specifically my team attends a lot of relay meets. I have a girl who has not run the open 1600 this year but can break 5:00 in the 1600. She is running the district, regional, and state and should be all-state but doesn't have an open time yet.
I would imagine OHSAA trying to avoid minimal times at all costs. Rainouts and meets not loading into milesplit would be a disaster for qualification purposes. More specifically my team attends a lot of relay meets. I have a girl who has not run the open 1600 this year but can break 5:00 in the 1600. She is running the district, regional, and state and should be all-state but doesn't have an open time yet.
regularcoach
New member
This always frustrates me this time of year and I do think there should 100% be a standard at districts. Prelims in events where kids that have no shot to qualify are just silly. I do agree that districts can be a good experience for kids so the standard shouldn't be so restrictive, but there should be something in place.
I think the better question is should districts be time qualifiers only? It can be frustrating for teams of high quality to have to choose 2 athletes when they might have multiple that can qualify individual to regionals or state.
I think the better question is should districts be time qualifiers only? It can be frustrating for teams of high quality to have to choose 2 athletes when they might have multiple that can qualify individual to regionals or state.
psycho_dad
Well-known member
Absolutely not. The prelims go way too fast as it is. It hurts no one to have the non elite athletes out there competing and learning.
I could give an example nearly every year of kids we put in events for the first time at the District. One girl was state runner up in the 1600 behind her teammate one season. We also have kids that run their times in dual meets that don't get reported to milesplit.
One of the beautiful things about the sport is you can gain valuable experience without getting your head crushed in being overmatched.
We have not had a single nice day to vault all season. The first half way decent day the boys improved over a foot. We typically see huge improvements the week or two before the District.
I could give an example nearly every year of kids we put in events for the first time at the District. One girl was state runner up in the 1600 behind her teammate one season. We also have kids that run their times in dual meets that don't get reported to milesplit.
One of the beautiful things about the sport is you can gain valuable experience without getting your head crushed in being overmatched.
We have not had a single nice day to vault all season. The first half way decent day the boys improved over a foot. We typically see huge improvements the week or two before the District.
I can think of no better way to say "sports don't belong in schools" than to set an arbitrary standard like this. If your standard is "you should have a chance to advance if you want to compete" then you are effectively sending the message "if you can't win, don't compete."
Furthermore, you'd be telling kids in one district "sure you could advance to the regional from this other district, but in ours you have no chance to advance so you shouldn't even try."
Most years we have a kid running, jumping or throwing who isn't going to get close to scoring but none the less has a personal best and a great experience at the district meet.
Furthermore, you'd be telling kids in one district "sure you could advance to the regional from this other district, but in ours you have no chance to advance so you shouldn't even try."
Most years we have a kid running, jumping or throwing who isn't going to get close to scoring but none the less has a personal best and a great experience at the district meet.
regularcoach
New member
This is a postseason competition. Does every team get to participate in the postseason for football?
Dublin Jerome has 3 milers sub 4:20 this year. It's fair that their 4:19 guy doesn't get to run his main event? There are 5 guys seeded 5:30+ in their district for reference. I'm not saying I have the perfect answer of how to do everything, but this isn't the right way to get to the best and most deserving athletes on the track in the postseason. Just my opinion.
This is a bad analogy. Football is the only sport where not every team gets in the playoffs. For every other team in every other sport, they can participate in the post season. (And in football the expansion of the playoffs over time has been to include more teams, not fewer.) We don't exclude a soccer team or basketball team from the playoffs because they are going to get pummeled by their first opponents. We don't tell a baseball team "Your right fielder is no good, he can't play."
I feel for the Jerome guys. I teach and coach in Dublin, and am friends and colleagues with their distance coach and have several of their athletes in class. I have also been in basically the same situation. But that's not really germane to the question of minimal standards for the district meet.
If we want to have a discussion about making track and field not be a team sport, then we can talk about letting in the top X athletes by time to the state meet, no matter how many from each school. We'll kill track and field as a school sport, but we can talk about it.
When I said this, what I meant was that this sends the message that the only truly important thing in track and field is getting the individuals with the best times and marks at any point in the season into the state meet. We send the message that none of the important life lessons (the importance of hard work, trying difficult things, learning to deal with failure, teamwork...) we claim that kids learn from sports are important. I also believe we will develop inferior track and field athletes that way, because we will downplay the importance of competing head to head.
Supertramp
Active member
I do hope they are thinking about this for the D1 Regionals. Either make the Regional small enough to where you would never have to do 4x8 or 3200m prelims (16 teams, 4 regions) or say you are only taking the top 32 entered times for 3200m and 4x800m confirmed on MileSplit. Even if the Regions are 20 teams, that would solve a lot of problems. At the Mason District, there were only 12 Boys 4x8s and 9 girls 4x8s even entered! Hopefully it never is an issue.
We certainly cannot avoid 800m prelims for Regionals, and I think you'll have the same problem with the 1600m prelims. That will be really interesting assuming they keep a two day format for those meets.
CC Track Fan
Well-known member
The 4x800 will not have over 32 entries because D1 regional meet will not be that big but if have more than 20 4x800 teams it could get a little dangerous particularly on first exchange.
Having to have prelims in 3200 is not a good idea so hope they do all they can to avoid that.
No.
Should each event have a minimal time/distance/height at the district meet so that prelims and field events don't take so long.
We all know scholastic sports exist to offer opportunities to learn positive life lessons. One of these is that working hard, not giving up easily, increases the likelihood of success.... in all things. As such, I hope that every competitor will have the opportunity to experience some level of success to reward the effort expended over the course of the season. Yet, every year, I watch the meet management/officials effectively limit entries by setting opening heights designed to eliminate half the field in the first round of the vertical jumps.
I'm not sure which is worse; telling an "enterable" kid you're not good enough or setting the conditions for an event so that half the kids have no chance for any level of success.
I don't think so. I believe our goal should be to provide the best possible experience and growth opportunity to as many kids as possible. For me, the goal is not to thin the herd and finish the event as quickly as possible.
We all know scholastic sports exist to offer opportunities to learn positive life lessons. One of these is that working hard, not giving up easily, increases the likelihood of success.... in all things. As such, I hope that every competitor will have the opportunity to experience some level of success to reward the effort expended over the course of the season. Yet, every year, I watch the meet management/officials effectively limit entries by setting opening heights designed to eliminate half the field in the first round of the vertical jumps.
I'm not sure which is worse; telling an "enterable" kid you're not good enough or setting the conditions for an event so that half the kids have no chance for any level of success.
In the central we will have more than 24 teams (which is the threshold for the 4x800, 800 and 1600).
CC Track Fan
Well-known member
You are assuming that there will only be 1 central regional meet. I hope they are considering 2 regional meets for central. Could send schools like Findlay or Dayton area to keep number of teams in each regional more equal. If keep 4 regional meet tournament all regions should have less then 20 schools.
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CC Track Fan
Well-known member
Here is how they break football down so could be done something like this. Adjusting for schools that are D1 in football but not in track and if they have in the low 70's number of D1 schools.
But their plan, for both XC and TF, is three (unbalanced) regional meets in D1.
Here is the announced D1 for cross country:
Girls
Boys
Assuming that TF will be a similar number of teams (more divisions, but quite a few more teams) that means Central at least and quite likely SW for both boys and girls there would be a need for prelims in all distance races.
CC Track Fan
Well-known member
Well then, I think that is a bad plan. That plan works fine for XC but will lead to some very, very long day 1 of regional meets and either lots of running for distance runners or two heats/timed finals in in the 4x800 and 3200.
CC Track Fan
Well-known member
There is only 4 division in XC and 5 in track so that may lead to different number of teams. I hope OHSAA sees the difference between XC and track because a 30 full team regional track meet is not a good plan.
There are a lot more TF teams than XC teams, so I doubt the number of teams in D1 is going to be much smaller in track than in XC.