Midwest Athletic Conference 2024

Who will be MAC champions

  • Total voters
    189
That makes sense. I didn’t realize the deadline was the 26th. Looking at the MAC conference the last 10 years… I am new to it. What has been the issue with Saint Henry? Was coaching bad? They won so much in the 90’s and early 2000’s. Just curious in what the issue has been. They haven’t won a state title in 20 years almost. I know that is crazy, but compared to the other MAC schools it seems down.
 
WilsonStripes said:
That makes sense. I didn’t realize the deadline was the 26th. Looking at the MAC conference the last 10 years… I am new to it. What has been the issue with Saint Henry? Was coaching bad? They won so much in the 90’s and early 2000’s. Just curious in what the issue has been. They haven’t won a state title in 20 years almost. I know that is crazy, but compared to the other MAC schools it seems down.
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Atleast a couple years they were likely the second or 3rd best team in the state in their division...unfortunately the top 2 were in the MAC also... 7and 4 don't sound good...but if every loss was close and to a state champ, it's not like your team was too bad.
 
Whasup said:
I don't know where to find final-season rankings but they had to be top 5 at the end of 2020.
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2020 they had a very good power running back.
Another year that I remember was around 2011 ?? Went OT in playoffs with state champ ML if I remeber right.
 
Whasup said:
I don't know where to find final-season rankings but they had to be top 5 at the end of 2020.
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They would’ve won a state title in 2022 if they could’ve got past Marion Local. I think it was something like 28-20 in the regional final between them.
 
I was way off then. So they still seem very solid then. Does Marion Local ever slow down at all? I mean what an impressive run. I feel Minster should be very good this year and could compete for D7.
 
WilsonStripes said:
That makes sense. I didn’t realize the deadline was the 26th. Looking at the MAC conference the last 10 years… I am new to it. What has been the issue with Saint Henry? Was coaching bad? They won so much in the 90’s and early 2000’s. Just curious in what the issue has been. They haven’t won a state title in 20 years almost. I know that is crazy, but compared to the other MAC schools it seems down.
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Could probably write an article on this, but to keep it short. We are/have been so reliant on just one loaded class to get us where we want to be. Even in the early mid 2000's when we won in 04 and 06 it basically came down to those senior classes. I mean in 05 I believe we were 6-4. Now to more present times the talent level has just not been there enough to get us over the hump. Even in years when we are really good we cannot get past Marion (ML has always been good, but has really became the juggernaut we now know in the past ~10 years). The years where we don't have the talent, the coaching has just not been good enough to keep us in the top half of the MAC. I think a lot of it has to do with a culture shift in town in the past ~15 years or so, but that is just conjecture on my part.
 
When you say culture shift, what do you mean? That’s interesting. Coldwater and Marion Local are so close to the town of Saint Henry. From the outside I always felt the town and kids worked hard and loved football.
 
BigPSH said:
I think a lot of it has to do with a culture shift in town in the past ~15 years or so, but that is just conjecture on my part.
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I think St. Henry is a sleeping giant, similar to Versailles before Jones got there. They've got a ton of history, and all of their other sports seem at least competitive in their league. The culture that got them 15+ state championships didn't just disappear, just needs a jump start.
 
BirdDog10 said:
I think St. Henry is a sleeping giant, similar to Versailles before Jones got there. They've got a ton of history, and all of their other sports seem at least competitive in their league. The culture that got them 15+ state championships didn't just disappear, just needs a jump start.
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Why do you think it’s a sleeping giant? Is there talent at St. Henry right now that can compete with the top of the MAC? Also, how will th new Parkway coach do?
 
BigPSH said:
Could probably write an article on this, but to keep it short. We are/have been so reliant on just one loaded class to get us where we want to be. Even in the early mid 2000's when we won in 04 and 06 it basically came down to those senior classes. I mean in 05 I believe we were 6-4. Now to more present times the talent level has just not been there enough to get us over the hump. Even in years when we are really good we cannot get past Marion (ML has always been good, but has really became the juggernaut we now know in the past ~10 years). The years where we don't have the talent, the coaching has just not been good enough to keep us in the top half of the MAC. I think a lot of it has to do with a culture shift in town in the past ~15 years or so, but that is just conjecture on my part.
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What culture shift in the town? This is interesting to me.
 
WilsonStripes said:
What culture shift in the town? This is interesting to me.
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Outside looking in so take it FWIW...

SH had a winning culture and it seems like at some point, they just expected to win and weren't doing what it took to win. That happens very often; it's hard to get to the top and even harder to stay on top. That's what makes programs like ML so amazing. At some point, the winning stopped in SH and they don't seem to remember what it really took to get back to it and are now confused. This isn't exclusive to SH so I'm speaking generally here - The parents blame coaches, the coaches blame parents, the students aren't doing the "extra". It could have been a bump in the road with just a few classes that didn't have the talent level it takes but a coach gets fired and a new one comes in, it takes time to get into the new system and some talented classes are left on the losing side of the scoreboard too many times and that coach gets ran out. It becomes a vicious cycle - a culture - that gets really hard to break out of.
SH is nowhere near the level NB was 10 years ago so they aren't broken by any means. But if they don't change that culture it can happen to them too. It didn't happen in NB over night. It didn't get fixed over night either. SH has the opportunity to see what did happen to NB and what can happen to them if they don't address it before it gets worse. Now is that time.
 
Whasup said:
Outside looking in so take it FWIW...

SH had a winning culture and it seems like at some point, they just expected to win and weren't doing what it took to win. That happens very often; it's hard to get to the top and even harder to stay on top. That's what makes programs like ML so amazing. At some point, the winning stopped in SH and they don't seem to remember what it really took to get back to it and are now confused. This isn't exclusive to SH so I'm speaking generally here - The parents blame coaches, the coaches blame parents, the students aren't doing the "extra". It could have been a bump in the road with just a few classes that didn't have the talent level it takes but a coach gets fired and a new one comes in, it takes time to get into the new system and some talented classes are left on the losing side of the scoreboard too many times and that coach gets ran out. It becomes a vicious cycle - a culture - that gets really hard to break out of.
SH is nowhere near the level NB was 10 years ago so they aren't broken by any means. But if they don't change that culture it can happen to them too. It didn't happen in NB over night. It didn't get fixed over night either. SH has the opportunity to see what did happen to NB and what can happen to them if they don't address it before it gets worse. Now is that time.
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That’s great insight and makes a lot of sense. Does St. Henry have the right people at the top in place to make that happen? Did the last coach get run out? I am not from around there, but just love the MAC athletics. Thank you. Great post.
 
WilsonStripes said:
That’s great insight and makes a lot of sense. Does St. Henry have the right people at the top in place to make that happen? Did the last coach get run out? I am not from around there, but just love the MAC athletics. Thank you. Great post.
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Yeah, they're definitely not in trouble. Based on what I read through the season on here and talking to a few others in the area, Luthman was a "marked man" by some parents coming into this season. Just before Week One, he did/said some things that didn't sit well with some of the parents that had him on their radar. It blew up, right or wrong (I don't know details), and he was suspended early in the season. I think firing him wasn't really what anyone wanted at that time but he knew what everyone else did - this was his last season - and he resigned at the end of the year.
So if they can change the culture and truly leave coaches do their jobs and make every kid accountable for their job, they absolutely can get back on their feet. Again, they aren't THAT far down on their luck. At all. But they need to be proactive instead of reactive. Hire the right guy and le him do his job.
Sort of an aside - last night was 10 years ago to the day when NB had their "football meeting" which addressed a lot more than the future plans of the football program. It addressed an overall culture issue and we are seeing the results.
 
Whasup said:
Yeah, they're definitely not in trouble. Based on what I read through the season on here and talking to a few others in the area, Luthman was a "marked man" by some parents coming into this season. Just before Week One, he did/said some things that didn't sit well with some of the parents that had him on their radar. It blew up, right or wrong (I don't know details), and he was suspended early in the season. I think firing him wasn't really what anyone wanted at that time but he knew what everyone else did - this was his last season - and he resigned at the end of the year.
So if they can change the culture and truly leave coaches do their jobs and make every kid accountable for their job, they absolutely can get back on their feet. Again, they aren't THAT far down on their luck. At all. But they need to be proactive instead of reactive. Hire the right guy and le him do his job.
Sort of an aside - last night was 10 years ago to the day when NB had their "football meeting" which addressed a lot more than the future plans of the football program. It addressed an overall culture issue and we are seeing the results.
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This makes a lot of sense…. Is the administration strong or do they cave to parents? I don’t know what all was going on at NB. I just remember hearing they were about to fold football. I gotta believe St. Henry parents are supportive, but maybe they are just to over the top…. Like a lot of places that fail. I agree they need to find the right person. It sounds like they need someone with experience. Not sure who all will apply for this job. Not a lot of people lining up to be micromanaged I am assuming.
 
WilsonStripes said:
This makes a lot of sense…. Is the administration strong or do they cave to parents? I don’t know what all was going on at NB. I just remember hearing they were about to fold football. I gotta believe St. Henry parents are supportive, but maybe they are just to over the top…. Like a lot of places that fail. I agree they need to find the right person. It sounds like they need someone with experience. Not sure who all will apply for this job. Not a lot of people lining up to be micromanaged I am assuming.
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Not sure about SH's administration. NB wasn't going to fold football, just exploring what options they had to ease the pain of a few very small classes for a few years. Again, SH is nowhere near that low. They will be fine no matter what, they could be great if everything aligns.
 
I hope for them it works out. I am sure it will. Will be fun to see who they get. Do they pay well? I know that obviously attracts talented people too.
 
I read that St. Henry situation reminds them of Versailles before they got their new coach. I would assume if that was the case that Versailles and St. Henry have kids who are talented, just something missing. Versailles obviously from a few years back… now they are obviously state level good.
 
Whasup said:
Not sure about SH's administration. NB wasn't going to fold football, just exploring what options they had to ease the pain of a few very small classes for a few years. Again, SH is nowhere near that low. They will be fine no matter what, they could be great if everything aligns.
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Speaking of NB any word on their open week and who they will play?
 
BigK72 said:
Big PSH has been kinda quiet the last week about the hiring process. Seems a little too quiet...
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Just the offseason, don't really check here as often. I honestly have no insight as of now.

WilsonStripes said:
St. Henry have good administrative team? I would assume that will play a big role for candidates.
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As for the administration, it is impossible for me to say. What is verse what is not a good high school administration in terms of sports? I know and like everyone in our admin personally, doesn't mean I know how they are at doing their jobs. I can say one thing if it does happen it is very rare that parents get involved in things directly here. Now does everyone have their opinion and do they make it known around town, absolutely. I've always said if SH is elite at anything it is bitching lol.

To elaborate a bit on my previous comments I think Whasup kind of touched on it. We had so much success in all sports in such a short amounts of time I think it got to peoples heads around town. Once the talent level dipped a bit we as a community did not change the expectations. I do not know as of lately since I've been out of school for a while, but I know when I was some people had the attitude that we deserved to be good just because of the name on the front of our jerseys. Would talk to friends in ML and CW and quickly realized how much more work they put in than we did week over week. Basically our work ethic never made up for the talent drop that occurred. Was this the case for everyone in the program, no, but it was enough that I think it made a difference and translated to the field. Parents didn't also help because they would take their kids side quite often over the coach (Not that they would go to coaches or admins and complain, but putting those thoughts in players head was detrimental enough).

Once again I've been out of school for a quick minute, and I only played football in Highschool so I can't and shouldn't make comments on the other sports since we have had more success in them. Things may have been better or worse under Luthman, but I would have no way of directly comparing to my experience.
 
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