Miami building collapse

That's pretty much how any bureaucracy works. It's all about connections and cash. If you're a small guy with no real pull, you'll get hammered. If you're a big developer who parties with the mayor, things will slide.
 
eastisbest said:
Good Lord people,


It's a legit hypothesis and an important one. Hell, it was the first one put forth on this thread. And it's as old as the pyramids. They would know if brackish waters are showing up in basements that it didn't used to. It is reclaimed land over limestone. These are facts. We know climate changes. We know average sea levels are changing. No one is challenging that they are rising. It's important to look and see if environment is a concern to old or new instruction. Nothing new, nothing to see here folks, move along.

Another report had a guy whose Ma and Grandma were in that first section that went, say the day before that she was woke by creaking. This thing probably hit critical point, just like most systems do. Buildings, particularly concrete are not designed with any kind of feedback correction. They hit a point. They go.

I'd like to have the ulta-sound imaging biz down there. Going to be a BIG demand.
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“We know that climate changes.”

Exactly. It’s a completely natural phenomenon. What is frustrating is the media pushing “man-made” Climate Change as the cause whenever there is a “natural” disaster.
 
OhioBobcatFan06 said:
“We know that climate changes.”

Exactly. It’s a completely natural phenomenon. What is frustrating is the media pushing “man-made” Climate Change as the cause whenever there is a “natural” disaster.
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Some people choose to be easily frustrated. Did you see that causation charge made anywhere in the article? No? Ok then. And someone'd have to be totally stoned or have the conserviclone puppet masters high up the to believe "completely." Well unless of course you want to consider man is a natural being and anything we do is "natural."
 
eastisbest said:
Some people choose to be easily frustrated. Did you see that causation charge made anywhere in the article? No? Ok then. And someone'd have to be totally stoned or have the conserviclone puppet masters high up the to believe "completely." Well unless of course you want to consider man is a natural being and anything we do is "natural."
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I am a cyborg so I certainly don’t believe men are natural
 
I'm siding with Omar on this one. Construction in Miami is shady. When IB's Grandfolks came through Ellis Island, they were the Buffalono's. Don't trust him on this.
 
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irish_buffalo said:
It COULD be a sinkhole. Has there been any evidence of this? On multi story structures you usually have pile that goes to bedrock. They said the building was 40 years old and also said roof repairs were going on? The one thing about concrete structures is if something happened they would still relatively stay together as the rebar inside is all tied together. It can crack and shift but even then it SHOULD stay intact to a large degree. The other thing about concrete is that it covers up what really matters and that is again the rebar. Inspectors have to be there to see the rebar before it is poured. At least they should. If not a natural event like a sinkhole, my guess would be improper installation of rebar.
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The video is on the south side. In the middle and from top view, I'm betting that is elevator shaft. The largest pile is on the north side, which can't be seen on the video. I'm betting it was the north side that collapsed first top down, pulling the elevator shaft, top down, then the East wing lost support and collapsed bottom up.
Edit, nope it was the south side next to the elevator shaft that started it all. Looking carefully at the vid, that section seems to start going and you can still see structure behind it (north side). Then that north side and the elevator goes.

The twitter link in the first post shows the north side. That building sheared mid appartment all the way down.

At the bottom of this article, the detailed view gives a pretty good look at the construction. That look normal to you?
USA Today

Looking at the rebar, the are consistently just a few feet like that part wasn't even tied in to the part that fell. I guess that's good, the center was able to separate from the west side and not pull it down.
 
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edit (AP article has more detail than ny post article)

apnews.com

Crews at collapse site find body, raising death toll to five

SURFSIDE, Fla. (AP) — Rescue crews found another body in the rubble of a collapsed 12-story condominium tower near Miami on Saturday, raising the death toll to five as they raced to recover any survivors after fighting back fire and smoke deep inside the concrete and metal remains.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
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clarkgriswold said:
A son of one of the missing told CNN that his mom told him the day before that walls in the building were creaking-

news.yahoo.com

A man whose mother is missing in the Florida condo collapse said she heard creaking noises the day before the disaster

159 people are missing after a section of Champlain Towers South in Miami collapsed. Pablo Rodriguez said is mother and grandmother are among them.
news.yahoo.com news.yahoo.com
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Post 26, try to keep up. :LOL:

I think a lot of folks are going to be haunted by what-ifs on this. I'm wondering how that kid survived? He had to have fallen surrounded by a lot of concrete.
 
eastisbest said:
The video is on the south side. In the middle and from top view, I'm betting that is elevator shaft. The largest pile is on the north side, which can't be seen on the video. I'm betting it was the north side that collapsed first top down, pulling the elevator shaft, top down, then the East wing lost support and collapsed bottom up.
Edit, nope it was the south side next to the elevator shaft that started it all. Looking carefully at the vid, that section seems to start going and you can still see structure behind it (north side). Then that north side and the elevator goes.

The twitter link in the first post shows the north side. That building sheared mid appartment all the way down.

At the bottom of this article, the detailed view gives a pretty good look at the construction. That look normal to you?
USA Today

Looking at the rebar, the are consistently just a few feet like that part wasn't even tied in to the part that fell. I guess that's good, the center was able to separate from the west side and not pull it down.
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All very valid. It is odd which is why it is so perplexing. Solidly built concrete/rebar buildings do not crumble to dust or shear off like that. I still cannot tell from the pictures if it is cast in place concrete or precast floors. In both cases they would have to also be post tensioned and if that was done improperly you could have some major issues. The sinking thing is interesting but unless it was a sudden sinkhole I struggle that an inch or two of change caused this. It could have and would not help but not the root cause. My guess is probably a poor design coupled with poor construction. The lawsuit claiming water damage and cracks says a lot.
 
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This is an earthquake simulation of a multi story building. It shows how resilient a properly reinforced concrete structure can be (if properly built). At .43 you will see the concrete crack but the integrity is still there. Floors do not shear off like the did at the Surfside Beach Condo.
 
irish_buffalo said:

This is an earthquake simulation of a multi story building. It shows how resilient a properly reinforced concrete structure can be (if properly built). At .43 you will see the concrete crack but the integrity is still there. Floors do not shear off like the did at the Surfside Beach Condo.
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Yikes!!!

Hey IB, time to start building with wood. Seen some cool designs out of C a n a d i a .
 
tribunecontentagency.com

Ask the Builder: Condo collapse, rusty rebar and your home - Tribune Content Agency (July 2, 2021)

After seeing news of the tragic, sudden collapse of the 40-year-old condominium building near Miami, my wife had all sorts of questions. We’ve dated since high school, and she knows I’ve got a geology degree instead of one in structural, chemical, or metallurgical engineering. All four of these...
tribunecontentagency.com tribunecontentagency.com

Just some insight. Much of what we know but Carter explains things very well.
 
irish_buffalo said:
tribunecontentagency.com

Ask the Builder: Condo collapse, rusty rebar and your home - Tribune Content Agency (July 2, 2021)

After seeing news of the tragic, sudden collapse of the 40-year-old condominium building near Miami, my wife had all sorts of questions. We’ve dated since high school, and she knows I’ve got a geology degree instead of one in structural, chemical, or metallurgical engineering. All four of these...
tribunecontentagency.com tribunecontentagency.com

Just some insight. Much of what we know but Carter explains things very well.
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Danke.

From the article:

Rusty angle irons holding up brick above windows can expand so much they push the brick out away from the wall. Rusty rebar in concrete can expand so much it causes chunks of concrete to fall out of an overhead slab or to fall off an important support column.

I'm guessing I have angle iron above the bay window. It was painted when we first moved into the house, but my wife talked me out of repainting it when I last painted the house. (Less work, didn't require much convincing. lol) Now, I'll add this to my "asap" small tasks list.

And, I understand why the bridges over the interstate near my house are losing chunks of concrete. Are those chunks falling to the road below???

This is why you or your builder should paint rebar before it’s installed in concrete. Yes, this is an extra step, but it’s not that hard to paint it. The paint can be rolled on, sprayed or even brushed. It’s best to use a special metal primer and then a finish coat of paint.

I built a retaining wall in my backyard when we put the pool in (and a railroad tie stairway for a client) using rebar and galvanized (monster) nails. I can't go back and paint the rebar, but I can paint the exposed ends. Live and learn.

Thanks again - I think. :)
 
EagleGuy said:
Danke.

From the article:

Rusty angle irons holding up brick above windows can expand so much they push the brick out away from the wall. Rusty rebar in concrete can expand so much it causes chunks of concrete to fall out of an overhead slab or to fall off an important support column.

I'm guessing I have angle iron above the bay window. It was painted when we first moved into the house, but my wife talked me out of repainting it when I last painted the house. (Less work, didn't require much convincing. lol) Now, I'll add this to my "asap" small tasks list.

And, I understand why the bridges over the interstate near my house are losing chunks of concrete. Are those chunks falling to the road below???

This is why you or your builder should paint rebar before it’s installed in concrete. Yes, this is an extra step, but it’s not that hard to paint it. The paint can be rolled on, sprayed or even brushed. It’s best to use a special metal primer and then a finish coat of paint.

I built a retaining wall in my backyard when we put the pool in (and a railroad tie stairway for a client) using rebar and galvanized (monster) nails. I can't go back and paint the rebar, but I can paint the exposed ends. Live and learn.

Thanks again - I think. :)
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Most (not all) rebar for bridges these days comes coated with an epoxy. Even the tie wire used to tie it all together is coated. If you have to make cuts the rebar that has been exposed needs to be painted with a special spray epoxy. In 1980 none of this would have existed AND portions of the structure appear to be precast which means there would be gaps for water to get in.
 
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