Mark Hall

Why not? The kid was 12 years old, not 14. It's perfectly legal and the last time I checked it's his parents' right to do so. As a parent I completely understand doing whatever you can do to give your kid the best possible chance at success, provided it is perfectly legal. Which this is. All I'm saying is this is perfectly legal in every state in America. So the argument against it holds absolutely no water.

I'm not questioning the legality or the right of the parents to do what they think is best for their kid. Like many others, I'm just trying to understand the logic behind a decision like this.

I'm a parent too and agree with doing whatever you can to give your kid the best possible chance at success. I have a very young freshman wrestler (will be 14 til the end of the school year) and I'm sure that he would win more matches if he repeated the 8th grade this year versus taking his lumps as a young freshman, but I honestly don't think that would make him any more "successful" as a wrestler or as a person.

I guess we all just need to accept that people are going to define success in different ways and be comfortable with different ways of getting there.

momx3
 
I'm not questioning the legality or the right of the parents to do what they think is best for their kid. Like many others, I'm just trying to understand the logic behind a decision like this.

I'm a parent too and agree with doing whatever you can to give your kid the best possible chance at success. I have a very young freshman wrestler (will be 14 til the end of the school year) and I'm sure that he would win more matches if he repeated the 8th grade this year versus taking his lumps as a young freshman, but I honestly don't think that would make him any more "successful" as a wrestler or as a person.

I guess we all just need to accept that people are going to define success in different ways and be comfortable with different ways of getting there.

momx3

I completely get what you're saying but the advantage isn't so much at the beginning of HS (where your son is now), but at the end. Males develop much differently than females. For most girls they've reached full physical maturity by 16 or 17. However, most boys peak a little later than the girls, physically, emotionally, and mentally. So, the difference between an 18 or 19 year old senior compared to a 17 year old can be tremendous. That's the advantage they seek.
 
Here's a better example of this same thing...think Dominicans playing in the Little League World Series! Except they probably took that advantage to the extreme, past what is/was legal
 
Threads like this make me appreciate those who do it straight up without all the drama. A great example is David Taylor. His parents could have held him back but they obviously get the whole picture and it sure seems to have worked out for him.
 
Threads like this make me appreciate those who do it straight up without all the drama. A great example is David Taylor. His parents could have held him back but they obviously get the whole picture and it sure seems to have worked out for him.

I'm a huge David Taylor fan but I think that is a poor example. Everyone doesn't have Taylor's talent. Also, his dad did what was best for him and took advantage of flight time all over the US to get him the best drill partners and matches. (No knock on the Taylors at all. They have always been good to me.)

Wrestlers are different and so are situations. If Hall truly was a young 7th grader then you almost can't blame his parents because maybe he would have graduated being 17 while his competition was 19. Wasn't Logan Steiber 19 when he graduated?
 
I see this holding back in junior high debate being a thing of the past in 10 years or so. My kindergartner will be 6 in February and she's one of the youngest in her class. My next child has a summer birthday and we don't know another parent with a summer birthday or later starting at 5 they all will be 6 when the start kindergarten next fall girl or boy.
 
whats the difference between holding a kid back in the 7th or 8th grade, 13 or 14 years old graduating when they are 18 or soon after turning 19 in the summer or red shirting a kid when he is in college? It gives an extra year to wrestle regardless !!
 
I'm a huge David Taylor fan but I think that is a poor example. Everyone doesn't have Taylor's talent. Also, his dad did what was best for him and took advantage of flight time all over the US to get him the best drill partners and matches. (No knock on the Taylors at all. They have always been good to me.)

Wrestlers are different and so are situations. If Hall truly was a young 7th grader then you almost can't blame his parents because maybe he would have graduated being 17 while his competition was 19. Wasn't Logan Steiber 19 when he graduated?

What would be the difference if he was held back when he was younger he redshirted anyway regardless and he is great regardless
 
I know the Hall family very well. They are great people that have the best interest of their son in mind. It is obvios Mark has the ability to wrestle at the High School level, as seen by all of his success. But he also has the ability and the right to be held back. If that is what his parents believes is in his best interest why shouldn't they take that option? A lot of people come on here crying foul because of the talent level of a certain individual, however there are a lot of reasons to hold a young man or woman back. Again, whether it's wrestling or the opinion that 17 is too young to head to college, grades, or even social development; It's a family decision. The Halls don't come on here complaining about how others are parenting their kids, so what makes it acceptable to do it to them?

Take this into consideration...
If a draft was invoked at any point, 18 year olds would be eligible to be drafted right out of high school, UNLESS they were still in high school. With our current war in effect, how many parents wouldn't consider holding their child back out of fear of being drafted? I'm not bashing anyone that serves our country, I'm simply taking a different angle as to why someone could choose to hold their son back.

It seems to me that a lot of people look at this "strategy" as cheating, when in reality it is simply a choice. Would it be different if the family chose to opt for two years of kindergarden, which is standard in some parts of the country? Anyone with a qualifying birthdate has the right to do so. It's a families choice as to whether they choose exercise that right. I'm sure it is a collective decision within the house, why does anyone on here really think their post is going to change things? The family of young man in question has already made the decision, it's not going to change. Whine and cry all you want, but Mark Hall will likely go down as one of the greatest high school wrestlers of all time.

That's my two cents anyway...

I fully support the Hall family. They are great people. I wish them the best of luck and commend them on challenging themselves with one of the toughest schedules and practice rooms in the country. I don't really care what grade he's in that little sh:t can wrestle.

Coach Root
 
If Hall was wrestling for any of your respected schools, drilling with your son and helping him to become better and beating up on your opponents, I highly doubt you would have a problem with it then.
 
After watching this kid - yes kid, go and defeat some of the best in the area last year at coaches and then see him walk off the mat and play his game console was classic. I don't know why there is a reason people are concerned about an individual being in 7th or 8th or whatever. If he is abiding the law who gives a darn unless you are getting toyed with him on the mat. I think there are a lot of possible reasons that he is still in 7th grade but the number one reason - because he can. If everyone could do so they are entitled to. If anyone is to blame then point the finger at the legal system. Until their is a law broken then why worry? Maybe people are having issues with the reality of this "Kid" being the real deal. It's scary to think of the potential here considering the accomplishments. Good Luck to him and his future and hopefully no injuries like a previous post stated- shame on you!
 
The reason I posted this was to see how many people would dip as low as most of you have. Mark is a great wrestler and my question to all of you is why when we have a freak of nature in our sport we attack them? Who cares what his parents do? It is not his doing! He only wrestles when and where his parents place him and he does a damn good job of it. Please stop "hating" on Mark and his family and just embrace the fact that we all may be witnessing history.
 
The reason I posted this was to see how many people would dip as low as most of you have. Mark is a great wrestler and my question to all of you is why when we have a freak of nature in our sport we attack them? Who cares what his parents do? It is not his doing! He only wrestles when and where his parents place him and he does a damn good job of it. Please stop "hating" on Mark and his family and just embrace the fact that we all may be witnessing history.

I don't think anyone is hating on Mark or attacking him. He is a tremendous wrestler, but anytime you bring his situation up, there are gonna be people on both sides of the fence. Is it our place to say what his parents should or shouldn't do? No. But this is a FORUM. It is a place to debate wrestling topics. No one took low blows at him, except the part about him getting injured, but I dont think that was meant with any maliciousness. Stop with the sensitivity.
 
Haha.
I always find this topic funny.
The people on the red shirt side are typically ones that do the same thing while the ones that oppose it are people that just cant fathom holding a kid back for athletic purposes.
Is it legal? Yes!
Is it a parents' right to do what's best for their kid? Yes!
It is what it is and it happens often.

I personally chose to let my kids enter their class at their respective times.
Would they have an advantage if I held them back? Of course!
It helps both as a Freshman AND as a Senior.
Someone higher than me set a plan for my kids and I'm going with where the chips lay and we will make the best of the situation.
Not everything in their lives will be easy and sometimes they will have to go down a more difficult path. I will help them get to the other side with hard work and being respectable young men.

What I think is funny is the people that say all these OTHER things as reasons to do the red shirts.
I mean come on, for "social reasons"??
That is more a social detriment to a kid if he is held back IMO!
The ONLY good reason is for academics.

I've heard the best one yet with the DRAFT!!!! LOL!!!!

Plain and simple, parents want their kid to have an athletic advantage.
It's within the rules and the rights.
Let's just call a spade a spade though and quit with all the other nonsense.

If my 15 yr old Soph(that doesnt shave) is fortunate enough to beat a 19 yr old SR then so be it. It will mean a heck of alot to him being able to beat a man!
 
Haha.
I always find this topic funny.
The people on the red shirt side are typically ones that do the same thing while the ones that oppose it are people that just cant fathom holding a kid back for athletic purposes.
Is it legal? Yes!
Is it a parents' right to do what's best for their kid? Yes!
It is what it is and it happens often.

I personally chose to let my kids enter their class at their respective times.
Would they have an advantage if I held them back? Of course!
It helps both as a Freshman AND as a Senior.
Someone higher than me set a plan for my kids and I'm going with where the chips lay and we will make the best of the situation.
Not everything in their lives will be easy and sometimes they will have to go down a more difficult path. I will help them get to the other side with hard work and being respectable young men.

What I think is funny is the people that say all these OTHER things as reasons to do the red shirts.
I mean come on, for "social reasons"??
That is more a social detriment to a kid if he is held back IMO!
The ONLY good reason is for academics.

I've heard the best one yet with the DRAFT!!!! LOL!!!!

Plain and simple, parents want their kid to have an athletic advantage.
It's within the rules and the rights.
Let's just call a spade a spade though and quit with all the other nonsense.

If my 15 yr old Soph(that doesnt shave) is fortunate enough to beat a 19 yr old SR then so be it. It will mean a heck of alot to him being able to beat a man!

Bingo !!!
 
I commend those that wrestle without being held back, and respect the choices that others make if they choose to hold their child back. Personally, I was a young graduate. However, I do think I would have benefitted from another year of maturity before heading to college. Not necessarily on the mat, but certainly off. College is a huge step for some. I have both sides of the argument on my team. I have wrestlers that will graduate as 19 year olds and one that will graduate at as an 16 year old. It doesn't really matter to me what their families choose to do. I have no problem with someone taking either side of the fence on this topic. it's an individual choice. My issue is with the fact that you have singled out Mark and made him the center of these attacks. Maybe not directly, but indirectly all of this is being aimed at him and I think that is wrong and out of line.

Coach Root
 
Absolutely hold him back, wrestle him year-round, join an elite club, hire private coaches, let him go live with those coaches over the summer, make wrestling become who he is not just something he does, cauliflower ear is a badge of badazz, get the big scholarship to college, never mind spending that much to get him there, redshirt him in college, he won’t have enough credits to graduate anyway, but he will when he goes back for a sixth year, if he goes back, he won’t need to because he’ll be able to make money as a private coach himself, run a few camps, sell some cloth, he won't regret it when he's forty, absolutely hold him back.
 
I didn't give a crap about this thread until the original poster admitted it was a set-up, and a high school coach stated that it was none of my business.

Yer both full of beans.

What are parents admitting when they hold their kid back in jr high? We were too stupid to know what we were doing when he started school? He got dumber as he got older? He wrestles constantly, and we need more time with the academics? He'll never make it with his brain, so we're taking our chances with his brawn? The road goes on forever, and the party never ends?

It may be "legal", but the jury is still out on whether it's the best thing for the kid. There is zero doubt in my mind however, that the hold back will be more fun for dad. For the life of me, I just can't understand parents who believe all their eggs are best kept in a single basket. I hope the kid makes it as a wrestler/coach. Repeating ANY grade doesn't look good on a "normal" job resume'.
 
I didn't give a crap about this thread until the original poster admitted it was a set-up, and a high school coach stated that it was none of my business.

Yer both full of beans.

What are parents admitting when they hold their kid back in jr high? We were too stupid to know what we were doing when he started school? He got dumber as he got older? He wrestles constantly, and we need more time with the academics? He'll never make it with his brain, so we're taking our chances with his brawn? The road goes on forever, and the party never ends?

It may be "legal", but the jury is still out on whether it's the best thing for the kid. There is zero doubt in my mind however, that the hold back will be more fun for dad. For the life of me, I just can't understand parents who believe all their eggs are best kept in a single basket. I hope the kid makes it as a wrestler/coach. Repeating ANY grade doesn't look good on a "normal" job resume'.

Nobody's job application says whether or not they repeated a grade in Jr. High. Let's be realistic.
 
Mark Hall is no doubt an excellent wrestler and I'm sure his parents are also good people, but the bottom line is that holding kids back for any reason other than grades should not be allowed. Aside from the physical advantage (and there is one when 19 year olds are still in high school) the kid is also now a year behind his friends and if he is a good student he is repeating subjects that he has already learned. In addition these kids face a lot more wear and tear on there bodies due to the extra year. Look at all the shoulder and knee injuries in our sport because of the specialization. You see high school kids with the same injuries that used to be associated mostly with college 15 years ago. It may help them get into college but it wont help once there because everyone else will catch up physically. Older Seniors should turn 18 in July and Young ones in June.
 
whats the difference between holding a kid back in the 7th or 8th grade, 13 or 14 years old graduating when they are 18 or soon after turning 19 in the summer or red shirting a kid when he is in college? It gives an extra year to wrestle regardless !!

I think its a huge difference socially. Being held back in my day meant one thing and one thing only, you flunked! Can't imagine watching my friends go on to the next grade and having to repeat a grade in grade school/Jr high, come on now. Jr. high isn't exactly the toughest academic challenge out there and if it is you have other issues you need to deal with first if you're really looking out for the best interests of you child. Just because the rules allow you to manipulate the system doesn't mean you should. I actually have more respect for those that flat out say they do it to enhance their kids athletic chances rather than those who try to justify it in other ways.
 
I didn't give a crap about this thread until the original poster admitted it was a set-up, and a high school coach stated that it was none of my business.

Yer both full of beans.

What are parents admitting when they hold their kid back in jr high? We were too stupid to know what we were doing when he started school? He got dumber as he got older? He wrestles constantly, and we need more time with the academics? He'll never make it with his brain, so we're taking our chances with his brawn? The road goes on forever, and the party never ends?

It may be "legal", but the jury is still out on whether it's the best thing for the kid. There is zero doubt in my mind however, that the hold back will be more fun for dad. For the life of me, I just can't understand parents who believe all their eggs are best kept in a single basket. I hope the kid makes it as a wrestler/coach. Repeating ANY grade doesn't look good on a "normal" job resume'.

The intent of the age rules are to allow kids who've had difficulty in school to compete at an older age. I find it hilarious that sports fanatics find no problem with holding a kid back in SCHOOL so he can more successfully compete in SPORTS. It's apparently the time of the Athlete-"Student", as opposed to Student-Athlete. Athlete 1st, of course, and the Student part is just sham 2nd - a uniform they're wearing that year.

If this was "legit" then I hope Mark's parents help him re-prioritize his school work. Something tells me it's just another lame ploy that uses the interscholastic sports system and all the loopholes therein - from state to state - to advance their athlete. All the rationalizing is complete BS employed so all those who play this game can look at themselves in the mirror.
 
eligibility

Let me first start by saying i dont care whether he was held back or not!

My question is how many years of high school eligibilty do they allow in Minnesota.

I am thinking back to the OJ mayo or one of his teammates basketball situation here in ohio. Ohio is a state that only allows four years of eligiblity. The athlete was eligible through his junior year of high school but then ruled ineligible for his senior year because he competed as an eighth grader in kentucky on a high school team. That was considered a year of eligibility.

I realize that Ohio is more stringent than other states but i wonder if minnesota has a specific number of years that you are eligible to compete. I know you can compete as a 7th grader but are you limited to 6 years of high school competition.

Dont care either way just didnt know if anyone out there knew minnesotas rule.
 
There is a feature article about Mark Hall posted on InterMat today.

The article does not touch the eligibility aspects, since from what I was told, the MSHSL did not express objection, which came as a surprise to me.
 
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Great article on a phenom talent.
I do have a question about the Dads comment on going to college at 17 yrs old though. This kid is the same age(he's actually a little bit older) as my son who is in 8th grade, how would he be 17? My son will enter college at 18 and turn 19 during the 2nd half of the yr??? What am I missing?
 
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