Man dies after being put in a chokehold by another rider on New York City subway

psycho_dad said:
Guy applied a choke hold for 7-15 minutes. On someone that talked loud and threw his jacket down. The ex Marine that choked him out could not control his anger and as a result, he killed someone that did not have a weapon.
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Did he have or use weapons on the other 40+ crimes he was charged with? Yet some of his crimes were attacking people and causes harm.
 
19AL63 said:
Did he have or use weapons on the other 40+ crimes he was charged with? Yet some of his crimes were attacking people and causes harm.
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So, he knew that? He might have been justified to restrain him, but not in the manner he did for the length of time he did. He went into a rage and went way over the top and killed a man.
 
psycho_dad said:
Guy applied a choke hold for 7-15 minutes. On someone that talked loud and threw his jacket down. The ex Marine that choked him out could not control his anger and as a result, he killed someone that did not have a weapon.
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Apparently the choke hold was applied for a lot less time then was initially reported:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653959991890411520


More from this tweet:

If you witness a scene like this, with a small group subduing a person while others are gathered around watching, without protest, you know that the person being subdued was endangering passengers. That's why something like this happens. It's the only reason why something like this happens.
 
Neely punched a 67 year old women in the face and put her in the hospital. He was a clear and present danger to those on the train unable to defend themselves. So three men stepped in to protect the others on the train. This was an act of courage and civic responsibility. It was a classic case of the good Samaritan coming to the rescue. If the marine is charged with any crime you will be breaking a virtuous cycle. Breaking virtuous cycles is a good way for a society to fall into ruin.
 
lotr10 said:
Neely punched a 67 year old women in the face and put her in the hospital. He was a clear and present danger to those on the train unable to defend themselves. So three men stepped in to protect the others on the train. This was an act of courage and civic responsibility. It was a classic case of the good Samaritan coming to the rescue. If the marine is charged with any crime you will be breaking a virtuous cycle. Breaking virtuous cycles is a good way for a society to fall into ruin.
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again LAWYERS failed this man....
 
lotr10 said:
Neely punched a 67 year old women in the face and put her in the hospital. He was a clear and present danger to those on the train unable to defend themselves. So three men stepped in to protect the others on the train. This was an act of courage and civic responsibility. It was a classic case of the good Samaritan coming to the rescue. If the marine is charged with any crime you will be breaking a virtuous cycle. Breaking virtuous cycles is a good way for a society to fall into ruin.
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Please show me where that took place right before he was put into the choke hold and that the guy that choked him out knew that took place.
 
psycho_dad said:
Please show me where that took place right before he was put into the choke hold and that the guy that choked him out knew that took place.
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It happened on another day and speaks to the danger Neely represented to the people on the train. The fact that the marine probably wasn't aware of it is irrelevant. The point is that Neely could be brutal and at any time go off on someone.
 
psycho_dad said:
Please show me where that took place right before he was put into the choke hold and that the guy that choked him out knew that took place.
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something tells me , you would be one of those people that would have pulled out his camera and got a video of the dude attacking other people.... and not done a thing to stop a attack!!!
 
lotr10 said:
It happened on another day and speaks to the danger Neely represented to the people on the train. The fact that the marine probably wasn't aware of it is irrelevant. The point is that Neely could be brutal and at any time go off on someone.
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and of course that has been proven OVER AND OVER... and yet the Judical system has FAILED America!!!
 
Indiandad said:
Clearly you've never been in a situation that requires subduing an assailant.

It's not that simple.

You don't get the luxury of hindsight.
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Well, I acknowledged your point at the end.

Been in a few dozen fights and they always seem to end up on the ground - but, no, never tried to hold someone in submission for a long period of time. I've been playfully put in submission holds and some of them are amazing - if a person knows what they are doing. I had a guy take me by the hand and wrist once and I was immediately his obedient servant! Lol.

My understanding of the A&P of the neck would make me very concerned about airway and circulation in the situation that unfolded in that subway.

But to your point, how a clear-thinking person reacts to being in a submission hold and how a panicked mentally ill person would react are most likely very different.

A huge release of adrenaline and the stress of the struggle was probably more than this Neeley could take - unfortunately. The autopsy will reveal it.
 
lotr10 said:
It happened on another day and speaks to the danger Neely represented to the people on the train. The fact that the marine probably wasn't aware of it is irrelevant. The point is that Neely could be brutal and at any time go off on someone.
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It's very relevant. You have to look at the know facts at the time. He was loud and threw down his jacket and was choked out. Period.
 
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bigkat said:
something tells me , you would be one of those people that would have pulled out his camera and got a video of the dude attacking other people.... and not done a thing to stop a attack!!!
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Wrong. I never reach for my phone for anything and video and photograph nothing. I've had to subdue a few people in my life and each time it was much more dangerous than that situation. Twice there were weapons and once was someone just like the guy that was choked out. A paranoid schizophrenic. I am the type that gets real calm in pressure situations. No idea why, I just do. Made me a very good athlete in big competitions. Performed over my head a lot of times.
 
psycho_dad said:
Wrong. I never reach for my phone for anything and video and photograph nothing. I've had to subdue a few people in my life and each time it was much more dangerous than that situation. Twice there were weapons and once was someone just like the guy that was choked out. A paranoid schizophrenic. I am the type that gets real calm in pressure situations. No idea why, I just do. Made me a very good athlete in big competitions. Performed over my head a lot of times.
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how do you know how dangerous the situation was? were you there? the only video that i have seen is when they have the dude on the ground. Have you seen more video then that?
 
bigkat said:
how do you know how dangerous the situation was? were you there? the only video that i have seen is when they have the dude on the ground. Have you seen more video then that?
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I read what was told to reporters by many witnesses. No one else seemed to think it required a choke hold from behind. No need to choke him to death. Not sure why that is so difficult. There were people pleading for him to let off. I'm not faulting the guy for stepping in. He felt he had to do something and he acted. He then went way past that and became the aggressor. He did not know when enough was enough. I have faith that there will be witnesses and the legal system will

You are right. My perception from the description by the witnesses interviewed and the video I watched did not seem as bad as I thought it would be to choke a guy to death. I was not there, so I do not know 100% for sure. Did not look life threatening to me. Especially when he was down.
 
psycho_dad said:
I read what was told to reporters by many witnesses. No one else seemed to think it required a choke hold from behind. No need to choke him to death. Not sure why that is so difficult. There were people pleading for him to let off. I'm not faulting the guy for stepping in. He felt he had to do something and he acted. He then went way past that and became the aggressor. He did not know when enough was enough. I have faith that there will be witnesses and the legal system will

You are right. My perception from the description by the witnesses interviewed and the video I watched did not seem as bad as I thought it would be to choke a guy to death. I was not there, so I do not know 100% for sure. Did not look life threatening to me. Especially when he was down.
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What was it that required the deceased to get right up in people's faces, scream at them, and threaten violence on a cramped, enclosed subway car from which no one could escape or avoid him?
 
OldSoulon said:
What was it that required the deceased to get right up in people's faces, scream at them, and threaten violence on a cramped, enclosed subway car from which no one could escape or avoid him?
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Voices in his head I suppose, or nothing. It did not require him being choked out. As bad and as many things as the guy did in the past, he didn't kill anyone. We have gotten away from using reasonable force to deadly force for everything. Argue all we want, It did not rise to the level of deadly force. You just can't assume people are going to do something. It's very concerning to me that the guy that choked him out escalated it to a deadly situation. Way over the top.
 
psycho_dad said:
I read what was told to reporters by many witnesses. No one else seemed to think it required a choke hold from behind. No need to choke him to death. Not sure why that is so difficult. There were people pleading for him to let off. I'm not faulting the guy for stepping in. He felt he had to do something and he acted. He then went way past that and became the aggressor. He did not know when enough was enough. I have faith that there will be witnesses and the legal system will

You are right. My perception from the description by the witnesses interviewed and the video I watched did not seem as bad as I thought it would be to choke a guy to death. I was not there, so I do not know 100% for sure. Did not look life threatening to me. Especially when he was down.
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the video showed nothing as far as I'm concerned
 
psycho_dad said:
I read what was told to reporters by many witnesses. No one else seemed to think it required a choke hold from behind. No need to choke him to death. Not sure why that is so difficult. There were people pleading for him to let off. I'm not faulting the guy for stepping in. He felt he had to do something and he acted. He then went way past that and became the aggressor. He did not know when enough was enough. I have faith that there will be witnesses and the legal system will

You are right. My perception from the description by the witnesses interviewed and the video I watched did not seem as bad as I thought it would be to choke a guy to death. I was not there, so I do not know 100% for sure. Did not look life threatening to me. Especially when he was down.
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i have looked at CBS, NBC, Fox and yahoo news, none of them have stories about what witnesses said about the situation. I did read that the dude threatened the Marine and several passengers on the train and that three guys subdued the person.
 
psycho_dad said:
Voices in his head I suppose, or nothing. It did not require him being choked out. As bad and as many things as the guy did in the past, he didn't kill anyone. We have gotten away from using reasonable force to deadly force for everything. Argue all we want, It did not rise to the level of deadly force. You just can't assume people are going to do something. It's very concerning to me that the guy that choked him out escalated it to a deadly situation. Way over the top.
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27 people have died on the subway in the last 2 years and a WHOLE bunch of people have been attacked? i have a college buddy who I talked with over the weekend, who lives in NYC, he said he would not let his family EVER travel on the subway system and they haven't in the last two years...he has done it twice, and said, you constantly have to watch what is going on around him... just not safe
 
psycho_dad said:
It's very relevant. You have to look at the know facts at the time. He was loud and threw down his jacket and was choked out. Period.
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Your defense of this vicious, mentally deranged menace is illuminating. The powers that be in democrat controlled NY City failed to deal with him over the years as he accumulated over 40 arrests including some nasty assaults. Neely's death is on them NOT the three good Samaritans who intervened to protect others being terrorized by this man on the subway.
 
Video shows Penny and the other guy trying to make sure Neely was lying on his side, rather than on his back after he passed out, so that he wouldn't choke. This should prove beyond all doubt that Penny did not intend to kill Neely. None of the passengers seemed to think Neely was dying, or voiced any objection to what Penny did.

Does not look to be a "slam dunk" case for the prosecution by any means.

BREAKING: Full footage reveals former Marine Daniel Penny putting Jordan Neely in 'recovery position', passengers complimenting him
 
Bull GreenDog said:
Video shows Penny and the other guy trying to make sure Neely was lying on his side, rather than on his back after he passed out, so that he wouldn't choke. This should prove beyond all doubt that Penny did not intend to kill Neely. None of the passengers seemed to think Neely was dying, or voiced any objection to what Penny did.

Does not look to be a "slam dunk" case for the prosecution by any means.

BREAKING: Full footage reveals former Marine Daniel Penny putting Jordan Neely in 'recovery position', passengers complimenting him
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wait Psych Dad says that a whole bunch of witneesses said they saw somehting else!!!
 
bigkat said:
wait Psych Dad says that a whole bunch of witneesses said they saw somehting else!!!
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There were quite a few that just got up and moved to another part of the car. It wasn't some big panic where people felt threatened. I saw interviews with people that were on the car that thought it was just every day ranting. No big deal to them. Did Penny offer any help to a man in distress? A man having a mental break down? Try and calm the situation down and see if there was something besides choking him out that could be done? Interesting how "Full footage" is not really full footage. Let the system work. Maybe try and take some lessons from the situation and put stuff out there that is constructive and that can reduce situations like this in the future. Not sure what good comes from any of this unless it's used as a learning tool.
 
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