Loveland/ Teays Home Plate Umpire

M

Mike4

Member
I have been a defender and excuse maker for officials for a long time. I absolutely understand the climate of officials at this point. I was just telling our AD how good the officiating has been this season.

This does not leave them immune from criticism. The gentlemen behind the plate for the Teays Valley/ Loveland game was atrocious. The kid from Teays retired the first 5 batters in 17 pitches, then no outs for the next 50+. He had almost 1/3 of his season total of walks with 2 outs in the second inning. The zone hasn't changed since 1887 and this guy reinvented it pitch by pitch. He also, on multiple occasions, had his back turned to the field, looking in the stands while the ball was in play. Refused to grant time to batters when asked with ample time and cursed at a kid because he pretended to throw his bat.

Is there a review process or complaint area for officials. This guy should never do a high school game, let alone a regional game.

The better team probably won, but this guy single handedly made sure one team had no shot. I don't know how the Teays kid kept his composure. Just glad this wasn't his last game ever.
 
 
For anyone interested the second inning starts around the 44:00 mark. Starting at 45:45, the pitcher throws four straight balls that aren't close and that's when the trouble recording the 3rd out begins:

 
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I watched the 2nd inning up to the point of the pitching change. As the parent of a former D1 college pitcher I can tell you that over my son's playing years I had my share of "issues" with umpires....especially when he was on the mound. After watching it, here are my thoughts

I have seen worse......much, much worse. The 4 pitch walk to start the mess was a given....as he wasn't close. The next guy could possibly have been rung up, but it looked like it could have been called low just as easy. After that I saw maybe 2 pitches that could have been called strikes that weren't. Yes, some were close, but he seemed to be really consistent with the low stuff. He also gave the pitcher at least 2 strikes that shouldn't have been....both were up. I get it the pitcher was probably getting more and more flustered as it went, but other than maybe that missed strike 3 to the 2nd kid that got walked in the inning I'm not sure one pitch either way here or there would have changed the outcome. The pitcher had at least 15 pitches where the catcher had to stand up to catch the ball....and 2 that went off his glove that cost a couple runs. The biggest thing that I noticed was that Loveland just kept attacking. I'm not going to go back and count, but I'd guess that they fouled off at least 20 pitches....maybe a few more considering the last guy who walked had a 14 pitch at bat. Any idea on the velo? It looked to me like he was throwing 82-84 ish at best....and didn't appear to have a breaking ball working at all. At this point in the season, good teams are going to tee off on mid-80's fastballs. I really don't understand why the TV coach didn't pull him a little earlier. He was obviously getting tired (50 pitches in the inning). Nothing good was going to come from leaving him in the game.

Keep in mind I have no connection to either team.....but I don't think the umpire is nearly the issue that the original poster seems to think. It's just "one of those innings" that happens.....and unfortunately this one was deep into the postseason.
 
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baseball is usually 1 bad inning for 1 bad play for the losing team....

some questionable calls BUT i have seen worse umpires for sure.
 
Ok let’s pretend the original post was only about balls and strikes. Turning your back to the game to look at the crowd while the ball is live and cursing at players is inexcusable. I’ve spent 3 decades coaching and parenting high level baseball and softball players. He’s the worst I’ve seen.
 
Enough with the ump bashing . TheUmp did a good enough job. The team in white wasnt as good as the team in black. period. move on .
 
Mike4 said:
let’s pretend the original post was only about balls and strikes. Turning your back to the game to look at the crowd while the ball is live and cursing at players is inexcusable. I’ve spent 3 decades coaching and parenting high level baseball and softball players. He’s the worst I’ve seen.
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I'm not going to watch the entire game to look for those things. Your initial complain was about the 50+ pitch inning. He really didn't cause that and by the time they pulled the pitcher the game was over.

1 if a kid threatens to throw his bat it's not an issue to me if the umpire says something. You said "cursing"....can you hear it in the video? At what point in the video was he turning his back to the field while the ball is in play? Just curious
 
Mike4 said:
Is there a review process or complaint area for officials. This guy should never do a high school game, let alone a regional game.
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When I read this, I had yet to review the video and look at the final score. I immediately said to myself... "run rule"

I was right
Mike4 said:
I had a better angle live but he is worse than I thought!
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With the video angle and distance, nobody on this planet can judge balls and strikes..... And remember, you were at minimum 50 feet from where the plate umpire was. There's a reason why umpires don't call balls and strikes from where you were.
 
I wasn't there but I have covered Teays all year, to give you a scope of Brody Mann, he had a 1.46 ERA and a 1.17 WHIP (1.175 WHIP falls within the "solid" range and is better than the average MLB WHIP.) and was the OCC-Co player of the year so something had to give on the umpire situation. Again I was not there just giving some reference.
 
kdiamond said:
Enough with the ump bashing . TheUmp did a good enough job. The team in white wasnt as good as the team in black. period. move on .
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Says who? both district champs and one team (Teays Valley) was in D-I last year. Just curious how you say "they wasnt as good"
 
tcgobucks said:
I watched the 2nd inning up to the point of the pitching change. As the parent of a former D1 college pitcher I can tell you that over my son's playing years I had my share of "issues" with umpires....especially when he was on the mound. After watching it, here are my thoughts

I have seen worse......much, much worse. The 4 pitch walk to start the mess was a given....as he wasn't close. The next guy could possibly have been rung up, but it looked like it could have been called low just as easy. After that I saw maybe 2 pitches that could have been called strikes that weren't. Yes, some were close, but he seemed to be really consistent with the low stuff. He also gave the pitcher at least 2 strikes that shouldn't have been....both were up. I get it the pitcher was probably getting more and more flustered as it went, but other than maybe that missed strike 3 to the 2nd kid that got walked in the inning I'm not sure one pitch either way here or there would have changed the outcome. The pitcher had at least 15 pitches where the catcher had to stand up to catch the ball....and 2 that went off his glove that cost a couple runs. The biggest thing that I noticed was that Loveland just kept attacking. I'm not going to go back and count, but I'd guess that they fouled off at least 20 pitches....maybe a few more considering the last guy who walked had a 14 pitch at bat. Any idea on the velo? It looked to me like he was throwing 82-84 ish at best....and didn't appear to have a breaking ball working at all. At this point in the season, good teams are going to tee off on mid-80's fastballs. I really don't understand why the TV coach didn't pull him a little earlier. He was obviously getting tired (50 pitches in the inning). Nothing good was going to come from leaving him in the game.

Keep in mind I have no connection to either team.....but I don't think the umpire is nearly the issue that the original poster seems to think. It's just "one of those innings" that happens.....and unfortunately this one was deep into the postseason.
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Brody Mann (#8 TV) the ACE, he was player of the year and if anything he had and has faith in his senior.
 
AllSports12 said:
When I read this, I had yet to review the video and look at the final score. I immediately said to myself... "run rule"

I was right

With the video angle and distance, nobody on this planet can judge balls and strikes..... And remember, you were at minimum 50 feet from where the plate umpire was. There's a reason why umpires don't call balls and strikes from where you were.
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Some just cannot accept when their team loses
 
AllSports12 said:
You made three posts criticizing the plate umpire. Not one time in those three posts were you critical of your team's performance.
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Actually never once said it was “my team” and in 30 years of sports parenting and coaching, I’ve never criticized kids. Only d-bag adults criticize kids.
 
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BeatReportJacob said:
I wasn't there but I have covered Teays all year, to give you a scope of Brody Mann, he had a 1.46 ERA and a 1.17 WHIP (1.175 WHIP falls within the "solid" range and is better than the average MLB WHIP.) and was the OCC-Co player of the year so something had to give on the umpire situation. Again I was not there just giving some reference.
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anything over a 1 whip at the hs level is not dominant, 1.17 is very good tho. Still, has no bearing on what the kid did in this game. Watched multiple sub 1 whip guys walk the house in this postseason.
 
Mike4 said:
Haha! There is a cavernous difference between criticism and coaching big guy!
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You said you never criticized a player as a coach. In the over 5 decades I've been associated with high school athletes as a player, coach, and official, I have found that the best and most respected coaches criticize players. Anyone with any shred of objectivity knows your team did not play well. That's not an personal attack against the kids, it's a fact.

Furthermore, if you'll go back and look at what I said, I never said anything about criticizing an individual player. I specifically said "your team's performance"......

And by the way, I was also right about TV being "your team" ;) ........ In one post you admitted being a "TV guy".
 
AllSports12 said:
You said you never criticized a player as a coach. In the over 5 decades I've been associated with high school athletes as a player, coach, and official, I have found that the best and most respected coaches criticize players. Anyone with any shred of objectivity knows your team did not play well. That's not an personal attack against the kids, it's a fact.

Furthermore, if you'll go back and look at what I said, I never said anything about criticizing an individual player. I specifically said "your team's performance"......

And by the way, I was also right about TV being "your team" ;) ........ In one post you admitted being a "TV guy”
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I happen to live in the district but certainly not a biased homer. I clearly said the better team probably won. You’re special.

YardBall said:
anything over a 1 whip at the hs level is not dominant, 1.17 is very good tho. Still, has no bearing on what the kid did in this game. Watched multiple sub 1 whip guys walk the house in this postseason.
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His WHIP was probably sub 1 before the Loveland game. Haha!
 
The initial post (criticism of HPU) is Exhibit A for why there is a shortage of sports officials.

For some reason, I watched the entire video, with particular attention the 2nd inning. I have ZERO to do with either school (not even in the geographic area). There is NOTHING egregious about any ball/strike call (a few close, that's baseball) and nothing inappropriate about the umpire's conduct or attention.

It isn't just you Mike4 - it's that so many others (not here in this string for once) watching HS and even JHS sports are even more critical of officials, in every sport, without any background, training, proper view or understanding of officiating. Mike4's post, in a vacuum, is not singularly significant, but there are so many other "fans" who get their fire fueled when somebody supposedly "reasonable" like Mike4 bashes the officiating - then the entire fanbase can pile on.

This was a reasonably called game. It was a tough outing for a really good player - it happens.

Sheesh.
 
I heard the HPU is a relative of the mailmans neighbor for the coach of Loveland


TAND......a 20.spot was bet on fanduel for Loveland to win


The.
Fix.
Was.
In
 
AllSports12 said:
My best example of this is Clayton Kershaw in the playoffs.

It happens.

And yes, umpires have bad games as well..... my best example of that is Jim Joyce

It happens.
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1749570160559.png
 
Forepar said:
The initial post (criticism of HPU) is Exhibit A for why there is a shortage of sports officials.

For some reason, I watched the entire video, with particular attention the 2nd inning. I have ZERO to do with either school (not even in the geographic area). There is NOTHING egregious about any ball/strike call (a few close, that's baseball) and nothing inappropriate about the umpire's conduct or attention.

It isn't just you Mike4 - it's that so many others (not here in this string for once) watching HS and even JHS sports are even more critical of officials, in every sport, without any background, training, proper view or understanding of officiating. Mike4's post, in a vacuum, is not singularly significant, but there are so many other "fans" who get their fire fueled when somebody supposedly "reasonable" like Mike4 bashes the officiating - then the entire fanbase can pile on.

This was a reasonably called game. It was a tough outing for a really good player - it happens.

Sheesh.
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Completely out of touch response.

There were a lot of people yelling at this HPU from both sides. I was not one of them. I've never yelled at an umpire, because I'm not stupid. It generally makes them worse. I also don't live in the "participation trophy" world were umpires are above criticism because of their uniform. Not all cops and teachers are heroes either, if you haven't watched the news in the last decade. I have spoken to other long time coaches and umpires since this game who actually witnessed it and all have agreed that there were major issues.

Sometimes the game is too fast for them. Sometimes their best days behind the dish is behind them. Sometimes they just aren't good at their job. Is it ok to berate them from the stands? Absolutely not. Is it okay to pose a question about proper channels for concern? Yes.
 
Mike4 said:
There were a lot of people yelling at this HPU from both sides.
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100% irrelevant

You should know after 30 of experience that this happens all the time, especially during tournament time.

The fans get louder and (suddenly) more knowledgeable…….. yet the coaches and players become more silent…….
Mike4 said:
I was not one of them. I've never yelled at an umpire, because I'm not stupid.
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Naw, you just go on social media anonymously and proclaim they should never work again.

A classic Fanboy (“I’m a TV GUY”) move.
Mike4 said:
It generally makes them worse.
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🤣
Mike4 said:
I also don't live in the "participation trophy" world were umpires are above criticism because of their uniform.
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If you want to be taken seriously, have some objectivity in your criticism. (See Fanboy comment above).

Criticism is part of the gig. Nobody criticizes officials in a tougher manner than fellow officials.
Mike4 said:
I have spoken to other long time coaches and umpires since this game who actually witnessed it and all have agreed that there were major issues.

Sometimes the game is too fast for them. Sometimes their best days behind the dish is behind them. Sometimes they just aren't good at their job. Is it ok to berate them from the stands? Absolutely not. Is it okay to pose a question about proper channels for concern? Yes.
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🤣So in asking the other umpires who witnessed this game……

Did they tell you anything about this umpire?
 
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