Kirtland football parent files First Amendment complaint after post-game prayer

fbrox

Active member
I would never send my children or Grandchildren to the woke public schools and their liberal agendas. Prayer is a added bonus and helps builds bonding between players and can develop a respectful competitive culture!!!
Yes, they’re all exactly the same, every one of them right? You know the rural public’s with conservative school boards, they’re all the same right? The rich suburban public schools too? Nah those wouldn’t be conservative at all would they? Yeah your generalization is just ridiculously moronic. I’m sure that diverse private school education has taught you wonders about diversity and generalizations……
 

Ironmike

Member
I'm likely older than the majority of the posters here, so keep that in mind while reading. When I played, coach would say a few last words in the locker room and hand it off to the captains. Captains would say whatever they wanted and usually concluded with the Lord's Prayer. If you didn't care to participate, you dealt with it for the 15 seconds or so. I suppose if you were Jewish, Buddhist, Islam, whatever, you used that opportunity to chant out a few faith-specific sentences. Whatever works for you.

I don't recall anyone running home and complaining to their parents (sarcasm intended). Of course, while we were kneeling during the prayer, we were all imagining ourselves on the field knocking our opponents head off (a bit more sarcasm). After the game, some players from both teams would meet and midfield, kneel and offer up whatever intentions they felt were appropriate. I just looked at is as a show of sportsmanship and gratitude no one was seriously injured or offering their faith-specific intentions for anyone who left on stretcher.

Again, I go back to the days before cancel culture, "Karens", etc when some "offended" person would scream "I don't like it and I want it stopped!!!"

I miss those days
 

bigkat

Well-known member
I'm likely older than the majority of the posters here, so keep that in mind while reading. When I played, coach would say a few last words in the locker room and hand it off to the captains. Captains would say whatever they wanted and usually concluded with the Lord's Prayer. If you didn't care to participate, you dealt with it for the 15 seconds or so. I suppose if you were Jewish, Buddhist, Islam, whatever, you used that opportunity to chant out a few faith-specific sentences. Whatever works for you.

I don't recall anyone running home and complaining to their parents (sarcasm intended). Of course, while we were kneeling during the prayer, we were all imagining ourselves on the field knocking our opponents head off (a bit more sarcasm). After the game, some players from both teams would meet and midfield, kneel and offer up whatever intentions they felt were appropriate. I just looked at is as a show of sportsmanship and gratitude no one was seriously injured or offering their faith-specific intentions for anyone who left on stretcher.

Again, I go back to the days before cancel culture, "Karens", etc when some "offended" person would scream "I don't like it and I want it stopped!!!"

I miss those days
that is the way of the world nowadays.... and its a shame......
 

Raylan_Givens

Well-known member
Late to the thread and, frankly, don't have the time or interest to read through every page. That said - apologies if this has been mentioned before.

I have driven thru/visited Kirtland maybe a dozen times in my life, but I am a HUGE fan of their program. Not just because they win, but because they do it in a way I've always admired. Coach LaVerde, his staff, that community & those kids have built a dynasty over the last decade plus.

That said, this scenario makes me think of the Churchill quote "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." What caused most of the great dynasties throughout history to fail? The source of their demise started from within.

I know this is small school high school football and not the Roman empire, but this is how it starts.
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
People are opposing prayer in a town founded by a heretical loony cult? Interesting. Times change. What doesn't change is that Satanism is the only -ism permitted on public school property in the United States outside the exceptional Holy Land of central western Ohio. That is sacrosanct. Tiger should have known he was up against dark and evil forces.
 

Jguth83

Active member
To be clear, I am 100% a coach or member of the team praying on their own pre or post-game. I just don’t agree leading a group prayer is appropriate, especially for the team leadership. It is impossible to perform a group prayer in a public setting without involving peer pressure. Everyone has their own faith journey.
The kids don’t have to participate. They are not being forced into it
 

Paladin

Well-known member
The kids don’t have to participate. They are not being forced into it
Yes, they are. If time is wished for PERSONAL prayer, then each player is allowed to speak his private prayer SILENTLY. After all, god hears us all, right ? lol

That way each can mentally speak, have his private time and not offend anyone. But, of course, that’s not what the Right wingers want. WHO WOULD HAVE KNOWN ?

Silent private prayer offends no one.
 

fbrox

Active member
Yes, they are. If time is wished for PERSONAL prayer, then each player is allowed to speak his private prayer SILENTLY. After all, god hears us all, right ? lol

That way each can mentally speak, have his private time and not offend anyone. But, of course, that’s not what the Right wingers want. WHO WOULD HAVE KNOWN ?

Silent private prayer offends no one.
And I’m still betting that 49/50 players on that team either want to be part of a prayer and relationship with God or really don’t care one way or another as they can think for themselves and can kneel respectfully while the prayers occurs. The one out of 50 kids however has an ax to grind probably over playing time. They’ll use the 1st Amendment argument in this instance as a weapon even though they really don’t care. So once again the needs of the one kid outweigh the needs of the other 49. Liberal society wins again leading to a Godless or moral free society. Of course some of you will likely cling to the establishment clause as if it has no argument but then you’ll then call for gun control and ignore the 2nd Amendment. This is the liberal standard, pick and choose the amendments that work best for your cause and piss on the rest.
 

BlackandGold

#BleedBlack&Gold
And I’m still betting that 49/50 players on that team either want to be part of a prayer and relationship with God or really don’t care one way or another as they can think for themselves and can kneel respectfully while the prayers occurs. The one out of 50 kids however has an ax to grind probably over playing time. They’ll use the 1st Amendment argument in this instance as a weapon even though they really don’t care. So once again the needs of the one kid outweigh the needs of the other 49. Liberal society wins again leading to a Godless or moral free society. Of course some of you will likely cling to the establishment clause as if it has no argument but then you’ll then call for gun control and ignore the 2nd Amendment. This is the liberal standard, pick and choose the amendments that work best for your cause and piss on the rest.
Ima bet you never liked The Three Musketeers? Lol
 

bigkat

Well-known member
And I’m still betting that 49/50 players on that team either want to be part of a prayer and relationship with God or really don’t care one way or another as they can think for themselves and can kneel respectfully while the prayers occurs. The one out of 50 kids however has an ax to grind probably over playing time. They’ll use the 1st Amendment argument in this instance as a weapon even though they really don’t care. So once again the needs of the one kid outweigh the needs of the other 49. Liberal society wins again leading to a Godless or moral free society. Of course some of you will likely cling to the establishment clause as if it has no argument but then you’ll then call for gun control and ignore the 2nd Amendment. This is the liberal standard, pick and choose the amendments that work best for your cause and piss on the rest.
at some point you just have to take a stand, have a player lead the prayer, and if little johnny has a problem with it, he can put head phones on and listen to music, don't change for ONE player and his mommy....
 

Move The Chains

Active member
at some point you just have to take a stand, have a player lead the prayer, and if little johnny has a problem with it, he can put head phones on and listen to music, don't change for ONE player and his mommy....
Praising John Goodman GIF by The Righteous Gemstones
 
This lawsuit is a perfect example of how screwed up our society is. The lawsuit happy world just ignores common sense. A coach usually says a prayer for the kids to not get hurt and play to their best ability. It is not trying to convert people to Christianity. Give me a break.. The player and his mom are just being a jerk to try to pry some money out of district, get attention, or dislike the coach and have a beef with him. Easy way to crush these dumb lawsuits is make her pay for district and coach lawyer fees and rule against her.
 

NewOldBlood

Well-known member
As I've read through this thread, one thing that strikes me as odd is that so many posters have deep convictions about prayer and Christianity, but they refuse to believe that this player and his family could have the same convictions about their religion. I keep reading it's about money or playing time or some Karen parent or an overall societal problem. Just assumption after assumption. Maybe, this family feels as deeply about their religion as they I do about mine. Maybe, they went to the coach, told him they were uncomfortable with the prayers and the priest at the pregame meals. I know this is a great football program, led by a great coach, but maybe he went too far here. Like it or not, he might be in the wrong and this player and his family might be in the right. And we shouldn't just say, well it happens everywhere so it's not really a big deal. For one, it doesn't happen everywhere. Second, just because a lot of other schools do it doesn't mean it's right. My dad use to say, "if all your friends are playing in traffic are you going to jump right in just because everybody else was doing it." When I was young, I thought that was dumb. Now that I'm older, it makes more sense.
 

Buccaneer24

Active member
People are opposing prayer in a town founded by a heretical loony cult? Interesting. Times change. What doesn't change is that Satanism is the only -ism permitted on public school property in the United States outside the exceptional Holy Land of central western Ohio. That is sacrosanct. Tiger should have known he was up against dark and evil forces.
Terrifying that nowadays cant tell if tyhis is satire or an actual point of view...
 

Redhawk85

Active member
This lawsuit is a perfect example of how screwed up our society is. The lawsuit happy world just ignores common sense. A coach usually says a prayer for the kids to not get hurt and play to their best ability. It is not trying to convert people to Christianity. Give me a break.. The player and his mom are just being a jerk to try to pry some money out of district, get attention, or dislike the coach and have a beef with him. Easy way to crush these dumb lawsuits is make her pay for district and coach lawyer fees and rule against her.
There is no lawsuit.
 

winbypin

Well-known member
That’s not what he said at all.
Sure it is. He even said the thread is basically "just assumption after assumption."

And then he added in a bunch of maybe this and maybe that to his post. Maybe the family feels deeply about their religion. Maybe they went to the coach and said they weren't comfortable with the prayers and priest at the pre-game meal.
 

serpico

Well-known member
Sure it is. He even said the thread is basically "just assumption after assumption."

And then he added in a bunch of maybe this and maybe that to his post. Maybe the family feels deeply about their religion. Maybe they went to the coach and said they weren't comfortable with the prayers and priest at the pre-game meal.
He didn’t say we shouldn’t assume. Rather, he listed some assumptions that run counter to the Yappi party line.
 

chs1971

Well-known member
This lawsuit is a perfect example of how screwed up our society is. The lawsuit happy world just ignores common sense. A coach usually says a prayer for the kids to not get hurt and play to their best ability. It is not trying to convert people to Christianity. Give me a break.. The player and his mom are just being a jerk to try to pry some money out of district, get attention, or dislike the coach and have a beef with him. Easy way to crush these dumb lawsuits is make her pay for district and coach lawyer fees and rule against her.
Do you generally support the idea that government employees should ignore the law?
 
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NewOldBlood

Well-known member
So....let's not assume anything but first let's go through a list of your assumptions? That right?
You're right, it might have come across that way, but that was not my intention. I was trying to offer counterpoints to what a lot of others have said. None of us really know anything other than what the media has put out and we all know how reliable the media can be. Most of the post on here in support of prayer have been that this kid and his family have some other intentions and my point was we just don't know. This could be a great kid, from a great family, who really was troubled by what was happening. My main point though was that many feel strongly that this coach did nothing wrong and the player's family is just whining with some ulterior motive, when in reality they could be very devout in their faith and just trying to protect their kids rights, which I would assume (lol) those of us who are strong in our faith would respect.
 

winbypin

Well-known member
You're right, it might have come across that way, but that was not my intention. I was trying to offer counterpoints to what a lot of others have said. None of us really know anything other than what the media has put out and we all know how reliable the media can be. Most of the post on here in support of prayer have been that this kid and his family have some other intentions and my point was we just don't know. This could be a great kid, from a great family, who really was troubled by what was happening. My main point though was that many feel strongly that this coach did nothing wrong and the player's family is just whining with some ulterior motive, when in reality they could be very devout in their faith and just trying to protect their kids rights, which I would assume (lol) those of us who are strong in our faith would respect.
Fair enough even though I think they were atheists. Which, even though godless, requires just as much faith in my opinion.

But I think it's safe to assume that they didn't go to the coach or school to express their concerns. Otherwise, I think the organization they reached out to in Wisconsin would have made a bigger deal about that aspect of the story.
 
Government employees ignoring laws. Give me a break. In our country , we ignore the Constitution for 2 reasons. Tradition or a popular idea. Why do you think we allow DUI checkpoints. when everyone knows it is a violation of the 4th amendment because there is no probable cause. But because it is popular idea to get drunks off road. We ignore. it. We have in god we trust all over our govt and cities celebrate with x-mas decorations. The whole complaint is a frivolous and could have been handled by communicating with the coach and work out a compromise. Maybe the player could move to another area when prayer given. Common sense goes out the window when you bring in special interest groups like Wisconsin FREEDOM FROM RELIGION atheist groups.
 

CasualFan24

Well-known member
While we're at it...a lot of assumptions going on here that all these players would like to be referred to as "he/his/him". Anyone do a poll of the players to determine if they're ok with those pronouns? Someone should let the mom who is upset know, she can add this to her list of complaints!
 
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