Ironton Vs. Marion Local In Week 1...Not So Fast

State2013-1 said:
I'm hopeful. He has noted that he does a lot more delegation now compared to before and the assistants are all younger and for the most part, played underneath him so he can afford to do so. I'm hoping the philosophy and things that have made ML successful stay. Only time will tell.
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They will but over time things change.
Thavoice said:
And since we are talking of titl3s....does WJ still have the sign up as champs the yr they were voted the top team at the end of the reg season but lost in the playoffs?View attachment 71849
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Absolutely- it is WJ’s prerogative & I’d guess most in WJ could care less what anyone else thinks or says about it.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
Only had 3 classifications so very difficult to be ranked however St. Marys was ranked no.1 in AA in 1979. Don't know if St. Marys made the playoffs that year, did in 78 and lost in the semi final game to Brookfield 19 - 14. What any of this has to do with this thread I have no idea.
Edit: I think Versailles may have been ranked no.1 in 1967 in the old UPI poll.
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I believe SM lost to Fostoria in playoffs in 79 (7-6). I think SM missed an extra point. I am not quite that old but would have been in Jr High at that time. That is during the time, they had back to back to back running backs that went to Arkansas, Purdue and Ohio State 78/79/80 so they would have been in media.
 
Thavoice said:
But it's not a state championship.
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The 1977, I agree with you but the 1962 - hey, you can have that discussion with the Massillon folks.

I have not lived in WJ for 20+ years but if you truly want to discuss it with the WJ powers to be, I could probably ask around and see if they would be willing to discuss it with you. Warning, these are tough good ole boys - they very well could have “Thavoice” silenced.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
The 1977, I agree with you but the 1962 - hey, you can have that discussion with the Massillon folks.

I have not lived in WJ for 20+ years but if you truly want to discuss it with the WJ powers to be, I could probably ask around and see if they would be willing to discuss it with you. Warning, these are tough good ole boys - they very well could have “Thavoice” silenced.
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thats all right, there are dudes in Mercer county looking for him already!!! thats what happens when you don't buy a round of drinks.....when it is your turn!!!
 
DDoubleG said:
I believe SM lost to Fostoria in playoffs in 79 (7-6). I think SM missed an extra point. I am not quite that old but would have been in Jr High at that time. That is during the time, they had back to back to back running backs that went to Arkansas, Purdue and Ohio State 78/79/80 so they would have been in media.
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Not sure on that side. Ironton won AA that year beating Badin and SVSM. SVSM had beaten Fostoria 27-7 in the semis
 
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Insane92 said:
Man you’re funny.
Emily Blunt Oh Snap GIF by The Animal Crackers Movie
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lol say it to my face sweetie
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
West Jefferson won 2 poll titles in 1964 & 1977 and won 2 State Championships in 1976 & 1982. In 1964 it was a guy who created a rating system. In 1977 it was the AP & WJ was the defending State Champ and they eventually lost 9-6 to Crooksville in the playoffs who went on to win the State Title. Poll titles since 1972 are completely meaningless since we now can crown the champ on the field.

Without Goodwin Marion Local appears to have been a good program but no where near what they have become. Once Goodwin leaves, the challenge will be to maintain. One always thinks they will but a decline is far more common. If a Newark Catholic (JD Graham) and St Ignatius (Chuck Kyle) can drop after all time great coach leaves, so to can a Marion Local. Enjoy & appreciate Godwin’s time at ML while you can.
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You are spot on!
 
TigerBeast78 said:
Greatest program in Ohio History not hardly unless you’re only counting the last 20 years. Massillon, McKinley, Moeller, Steubenville, Warren Harding , and St Ignatius would be top programs all time. Best Current program in Ohio History regardless of size, sure. I know Marion Local has been a small school power for a while now. but, when you say something like Ohio State history they are still cutting teeth
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Lol. So the apparently non-existent 20 some years where a team wins more on the field championships than any team in state history has no relevancy in the discussion. Other teams with state championships and other periods of mediocrity are obviously more impressive. That’s like saying UCLA basketball can’t compare with other blue bloods because they were typically only great for a 12-15 year period and only sometimes decent during other periods or that UConn’s women’s teams weren’t great before Geno so they can’t be considered the greatest women’s program ever
Local is easily in any conversation as best Ohio program ever
 
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Inoutsider said:
Lol. So the apparently non-existent 20 some years where a team wins more on the field championships than any team in state history has no relevancy in the discussion. Other teams with state championships and other periods of mediocrity are obviously more impressive. That’s like saying UCLA basketball can’t compare with other blue bloods because they were typically only great for a 12-15 year period and only sometimes decent during other periods or that UConn’s women’s teams weren’t great before Geno so they can’t be considered the greatest women’s program ever
Local is easily in any conversation as best Ohio program ever
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No it's because MSML was wasn't around long enough to be considered best ever. Like I said still cutting teeth as in they don't have the history. Also some of the teams I mentioned years of "Mediocrity" would still stomp the best MSML teams.We can maybe even say MSML is ONE of the best but that wasn't what the other person said . He said THE best .Sure some can say best in the last 20 or most dominant program but that is debatable. Best program maybe because they are better against equal competition more so than other teams fair against equal competition in their Divsions
Now when it comes to best ever or even most dominate in the last 20 that's not a given,all depends how you look at it.Has MSML ever played ANY of the top or best programs in Ohio History?? No they haven't. They have never defeated a Canton McKinley, a Massillon , Warren Harding , Steubenville ,Moeller , St Ignatius or St Edward's. To claim to be the best ever you have to beat the best teams in Ohio History. As unfair as it is your not going to be crowned best in Ohio History being D7. Best small school yeah sure ,I can see that easily. So no MSML can not be in the convo as best EVER unless you erase nearly 60 years of football. Sorry as much as you guys hate it pre playoff titles are still titles just like the college titles pre 1998. Also I know MSML has the most playoff titles in the state and passed ST Ignatius but no way am I even going to consider them a better program than St Ignatius. I'll take the 90s state title Ignatius teams -50 over ANY MSML team.
 
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TigerBeast78 said:
N

No it's because MSML was wasn't around long enough to be considered best ever. Like I said still cutting teeth as in they don't have the history. Also some of the teams I mentioned years of "Mediocrity" would still stomp the best MSML teams.We can maybe even say MSML is ONE of the best but that wasn't what the other person said . He said THE best .Sure some can say best in the last 20 or most dominant program but that is debatable. Best program maybe because they are better against equal competition more so than other teams fair against equal competition in their Divsions
Now when it comes to best ever or even most dominate in the last 20 that's not a given,all depends how you look at it.Has MSML ever played ANY of the top or best programs in Ohio History?? No they haven't. They have never defeated a Canton McKinley, a Massillon , Warren Harding , Steubenville ,Moeller , St Ignatius or St Edward's. To claim to be the best ever you have to beat the best teams in Ohio History. As unfair as it is your not going to be crowned best in Ohio History being D7. Best small school yeah sure ,I can see that easily. So no MSML can not be in the convo as best EVER unless you erase nearly 60 years of football. Sorry as much as you guys hate it pre playoff titles are still titles just like the college titles pre 1998. Also I know MSML has the most playoff titles in the state and passed ST Ignatius but no way am I even going to consider them a better program than St Ignatius. I'll take the 90s state title Ignatius teams +50 over ANY MSML team.
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I'm comfortable being the MT Union of Ohio High School Football. It just means we win. It honestly doesn't have to get any deeper than that. How it ever gets to this point, idk.
 
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State2013-1 said:
I'm comfortable being the MT Union of Ohio High School Football. It just means we win. It honestly doesn't have to get any deeper than that. How it ever gets to this point, idk.
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100% agree.
A champ is a champ and where you supposed stand against other divisions never really enters one's mind.
 
TigerBeast78 said:
N

No it's because MSML was wasn't around long enough to be considered best ever. Like I said still cutting teeth as in they don't have the history. Also some of the teams I mentioned years of "Mediocrity" would still stomp the best MSML teams.We can maybe even say MSML is ONE of the best but that wasn't what the other person said . He said THE best .Sure some can say best in the last 20 or most dominant program but that is debatable. Best program maybe because they are better against equal competition more so than other teams fair against equal competition in their Divsions
Now when it comes to best ever or even most dominate in the last 20 that's not a given,all depends how you look at it.Has MSML ever played ANY of the top or best programs in Ohio History?? No they haven't. They have never defeated a Canton McKinley, a Massillon , Warren Harding , Steubenville ,Moeller , St Ignatius or St Edward's. To claim to be the best ever you have to beat the best teams in Ohio History. As unfair as it is your not going to be crowned best in Ohio History being D7. Best small school yeah sure ,I can see that easily. So no MSML can not be in the convo as best EVER unless you erase nearly 60 years of football. Sorry as much as you guys hate it pre playoff titles are still titles just like the college titles pre 1998. Also I know MSML has the most playoff titles in the state and passed ST Ignatius but no way am I even going to consider them a better program than St Ignatius. I'll take the 90s state title Ignatius teams +50 over ANY MSML team.
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Not the greatest team. Clearly said best program. I’m not one of those trying to get them to play up. Given the size of the school they’re playing exactly who they should. Their accomplishments the last 25 years, regardless of division or school size is the greatest period of Ohio high school football I’ve seen in my 63 years
 
Inoutsider said:
Not the greatest team. Clearly said best program. I’m not one of those trying to get them to play up. Given the size of the school they’re playing exactly who they should. Their accomplishments the last 25 years, regardless of division or school size is the greatest period of Ohio high school football I’ve seen in my 63 years
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I guess I was grouping in greatest team along with best program. Like to have the best program you fielded the greatest teams. I would say yes the last 20-25 years the greatest with ST Ignatius on their heals as best I've seen in a time period. I say that MSML is the best in that time period based solely on how they dominate their same size teams compared to other higher divisions and how they dominate their division. MSML destroys the competition in their division. Now if I was picking based on who has the better program based on how good of competition they defeated through that time period it's Iggy and not even close
 
TigerBeast78 said:
I guess I was grouping in greatest team along with best program. Like to have the best program you fielded the greatest teams. I would say yes the last 20-25 years the greatest with ST Ignatius on their heals as best I've seen in a time period. I say that MSML is the best in that time period based solely on how they dominate their same size teams compared to other higher divisions and how they dominate their division. MSML destroys the competition in their division. Now if I was picking based on who has the better program based on how good of competition they defeated through that time period it's Iggy and not even close
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It may be bias or unfair but to use a boxing analogy, Jimmy Wilde is widely regarded as the greatest flyweight in boxing history at 103-0. You won't find him on the Top 10 or 25 greatest boxers of all-time. But you do see the progressively lighter weights more in the "pound for pound" category.

There is no way to compare Faust's or Kyle's Moeller and Iggy teams to Marion Local, except in that way. Which is ok. (imo).
 
TigerPaw said:
It may be bias or unfair but to use a boxing analogy, Jimmy Wilde is widely regarded as the greatest flyweight in boxing history at 103-0. You won't find him on the Top 10 or 25 greatest boxers of all-time. But you do see the progressively lighter weights more in the "pound for pound" category.

There is no way to compare Faust's or Kyle's Moeller and Iggy teams to Marion Local, except in that way. Which is ok. (imo).
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Well I've watched both and the comparison is them Moeller and Iggy teams would make MSML look like a pop warner team if it were head to head. No offense to MSML but not even on the same universe. Like you said if we want to use to pound for pound thing then ok we can compare. Other than that clear cut which teams were better
 
TigerBeast78 said:
Well I've watched both and the comparison is them Moeller and Iggy teams would make MSML look like a pop warner team if it were head to head. No offense to MSML but not even on the same universe. Like you said if we want to use to pound for pound thing then ok we can compare. Other than that clear cut which teams were better
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there is NO doubt about that... the Steiners could not compete EVER with Moeller, and IGGY and teams of that stature .... anyone who thinks they could, is delusional.... that HORSE has been beat to death, and MOST Steiner fans on here would admit that....

I mean there have only been about 4 threads on this subject in the past 4 months...hope it stops!!!!
 
TigerBeast78 said:
N

No it's because MSML was wasn't around long enough to be considered best ever. Like I said still cutting teeth as in they don't have the history. Also some of the teams I mentioned years of "Mediocrity" would still stomp the best MSML teams.We can maybe even say MSML is ONE of the best but that wasn't what the other person said . He said THE best .Sure some can say best in the last 20 or most dominant program but that is debatable. Best program maybe because they are better against equal competition more so than other teams fair against equal competition in their Divsions
Now when it comes to best ever or even most dominate in the last 20 that's not a given,all depends how you look at it.Has MSML ever played ANY of the top or best programs in Ohio History?? No they haven't. They have never defeated a Canton McKinley, a Massillon , Warren Harding , Steubenville ,Moeller , St Ignatius or St Edward's. To claim to be the best ever you have to beat the best teams in Ohio History. As unfair as it is your not going to be crowned best in Ohio History being D7. Best small school yeah sure ,I can see that easily. So no MSML can not be in the convo as best EVER unless you erase nearly 60 years of football. Sorry as much as you guys hate it pre playoff titles are still titles just like the college titles pre 1998. Also I know MSML has the most playoff titles in the state and passed ST Ignatius but no way am I even going to consider them a better program than St Ignatius. I'll take the 90s state title Ignatius teams -50 over ANY MSML team.
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I appreciate your taking time to voice your opinion. I have carefully considered each point you made. After a full evaluation I then used my qualifying data to reexamine the teams in my finalist list for "Best Program in the History of Ohio".

To my surprise, once again Maria Stein Marion Local came out as the clear winner. This is embarrassing for the large school programs in Ohio, but I have learned to accept it as something I have no control over. I will review the data again following next seasons state championships, and will report my findings in the event there is movement in the results.
 
D4fan said:
I appreciate your taking time to voice your opinion. I have carefully considered each point you made. After a full evaluation I then used my qualifying data to reexamine the teams in my finalist list for "Best Program in the History of Ohio".

To my surprise, once again Maria Stein Marion Local came out as the clear winner. This is embarrassing for the large school programs in Ohio, but I have learned to accept it as something I have no control over. I will review the data again following next seasons state championships, and will report my findings in the event there is movement in the results.
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Key word "MY" qualifying data. Sorry they don't have the most wins or overall championships they can't be THE best. For them to be THE best you would have to erase past History
 
TigerBeast78 said:
N

No it's because MSML was wasn't around long enough to be considered best ever. Like I said still cutting teeth as in they don't have the history. Also some of the teams I mentioned years of "Mediocrity" would still stomp the best MSML teams.We can maybe even say MSML is ONE of the best but that wasn't what the other person said . He said THE best .Sure some can say best in the last 20 or most dominant program but that is debatable. Best program maybe because they are better against equal competition more so than other teams fair against equal competition in their Divsions
Now when it comes to best ever or even most dominate in the last 20 that's not a given,all depends how you look at it.Has MSML ever played ANY of the top or best programs in Ohio History?? No they haven't. They have never defeated a Canton McKinley, a Massillon , Warren Harding , Steubenville ,Moeller , St Ignatius or St Edward's. To claim to be the best ever you have to beat the best teams in Ohio History. As unfair as it is your not going to be crowned best in Ohio History being D7. Best small school yeah sure ,I can see that easily. So no MSML can not be in the convo as best EVER unless you erase nearly 60 years of football. Sorry as much as you guys hate it pre playoff titles are still titles just like the college titles pre 1998. Also I know MSML has the most playoff titles in the state and passed ST Ignatius but no way am I even going to consider them a better program than St Ignatius. I'll take the 90s state title Ignatius teams -50 over ANY MSML team.
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Take your “L” and move on. Anyone who has paid attention knows MSML has a program that will be celebrated as not just one of the greatest ever in Ohio but also in the nation. Size of the school does not matter, what they have accomplished in last 25 years will be damn near impossible to even get in the conversation with.
 
fbrox said:
Take your “L” and move on. Anyone who has paid attention knows MSML has a program that will be celebrated as not just one of the greatest ever in Ohio but also in the nation. Size of the school does not matter, what they have accomplished in last 25 years will be damn near impossible to even get in the conversation with.
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One of the greatest small school programs. Size does matter, she’s lying to you bro.
 
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