If God knows what we are going to do, then do we really have freedom of choice?

MoeDude

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
If God knows what we are going to do, then do we really have freedom of choice?

Sorry reverting back to my Catholic school days here. The Nuns never could convince me on this one. My position was, if God already knows then you really don't have Freedom of Choice. 😯
 

vamp2syd

Well-known member
No.....

Free Will is an illusion. We are programmed to believe in free will as it brings hope but it is all part of the illusion. We are DNA codes that are pre-programmed.

"All this pain is an illusion"

In the illusion of time, we are all projections of consciousness experiencing in the physical.
 

BlackHawk

Well-known member
No.....

Free Will is an illusion. We are programmed to believe in free will as it brings hope but it is all part of the illusion. We are DNA codes that are pre-programmed.

"All this pain is an illusion"

In the illusion of time, we are all projections of consciousness experiencing in the physical.
I just finished reading Until the End of Time: Mind, Matter and Our Search for Meaning in an Evolving Universe by the brilliant theoretical physicist Brian Greene and he agrees with you. He makes a strong argument that we have no free will at all...everything is coded in us and we act accordingly.

I'm not sure I fully understand the argument, but whether he's right or wrong, free will cannot exist with an all-knowing, all-everything God.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
If God knows what we are going to do, then do we really have freedom of choice?

Sorry reverting back to my Catholic school days here. The Nuns never could convince me on this one. My position was, if God already knows then you really don't have Freedom of Choice. 😯
You didn’t pay attention. Catholicism teaches that God gives freedom of choice and eventually judges us on the choices made. Catholicism is not one of the Christian denominations that believe in predestination.
 

MoeDude

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
You didn’t pay attention. Catholicism teaches that God gives freedom of choice and eventually judges us on the choices made. Catholicism is not one of the Christian denominations that believe in predestination.
Haha, you've been taught well my son!. But the nuns would also tell us that God already knew what "choice" we would make. So the circle continues, if he knows our "choice" then is it really a "choice" or predestiny? By the way I did pay attention but they still couldn't provide a strong answer to my follow up question. How can you not believe in predestination if you believe God already knows your decision?
 

cjb56

Well-known member
Haha, you've been taught well my son!. But the nuns would also tell us that God already knew what "choice" we would make. So the circle continues, if he knows our "choice" then is it really a "choice" or predestiny? By the way I did pay attention but they still couldn't provide a strong answer to my follow up question. How can you not believe in predestination if you believe God already knows your decision?
Hmmmm. Sounds like your nuns needed a little refresher on the teachings.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Haha, you've been taught well my son!. But the nuns would also tell us that God already knew what "choice" we would make. So the circle continues, if he knows our "choice" then is it really a "choice" or predestiny? By the way I did pay attention but they still couldn't provide a strong answer to my follow up question. How can you not believe in predestination if you believe God already knows your decision?
Makes one wonder.........
George Costanza, who was not Catholic I do not believe, had a phase where he did the opposite he always was doing.

Would God know any said person who would start using that philosophy?

I would think......
yes?
 

vamp2syd

Well-known member
I just finished reading Until the End of Time: Mind, Matter and Our Search for Meaning in an Evolving Universe by the brilliant theoretical physicist Brian Greene and he agrees with you. He makes a strong argument that we have no free will at all...everything is coded in us and we act accordingly.

I'm not sure I fully understand the argument, but whether he's right or wrong, free will cannot exist with an all-knowing, all-everything God.

Here is another one for you.... Everything happens past, present, future simultaneously....
 

Caleb

Well-known member
If God knows what we are going to do, then do we really have freedom of choice?

Sorry reverting back to my Catholic school days here. The Nuns never could convince me on this one. My position was, if God already knows then you really don't have Freedom of Choice. 😯
You were created a free moral agent that allows you to control your own destiny so if you choose to drive your car off a cliff he will not stop you. IMHO!
 

vamp2syd

Well-known member
Do you agree He knows ahead of time that you are going to drive off that cliff?!?!

Well, if God does exist he would exist outside the realm of time. Basically a higher dimensional being who would be able to see any point of our life at any instant. Basically back to the theory of everything happens simultaneously (Holy crap, I just spelled that without the help of auto correct... oh, but he already knew I was going to that). To exist outside of time is the place to be but can a physical entity exist there? I cannot continue as I ate my last cookie.
 

vamp2syd

Well-known member
God's foreknowledge of events in no way restricts your free will. Him knowing what you will choose does not prevent you from choosing.

disagree..... In any moment of time everything has already happened so therefore one must follow the path. We can only think in linear terms and are incapable of seeing outside the lines of reason. In reality all of our behavioral decisions are just a reflection of our genetic history. To us it seems like we are in control and have this freewill but really it is the fact that consciousness is simply a state of awareness and we are just going along for the ride. Enjoy the trip......

need more cookies!!!!!!
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
I'm Victoria, HI!!

giphy.gif

George broke the Matrix that day.
 

EagleGuy

Well-known member
disagree..... In any moment of time everything has already happened so therefore one must follow the path. We can only think in linear terms and are incapable of seeing outside the lines of reason. In reality all of our behavioral decisions are just a reflection of our genetic history. To us it seems like we are in control and have this freewill but really it is the fact that consciousness is simply a state of awareness and we are just going along for the ride. Enjoy the trip......

need more cookies!!!!!!
Does this mean there is, in fact, only one moment and, therefore, there is no path - except for that one moment? (Think the math set {1}.

Now, if there are micro-moments I can see that. But then again, wouldn't everything that has already happened would have happened in a single micro-moment? Sounds big-bangish to me. :)
 

vamp2syd

Well-known member
Does this mean there is, in fact, only one moment and, therefore, there is no path - except for that one moment? (Think the math set {1}.

Now, if there are micro-moments I can see that. But then again, wouldn't everything that has already happened would have happened in a single micro-moment? Sounds big-bangish to me. :)

Well, I need to get back to that train of thought that I was on and try to remember what I was responding to. First we would need to define Physical reality. Frankly, I am a believer it does not exist so therefore the "path" is already predetermined based on programming.

Each person's "path" is predetermined by a genetic code as well as programming (known in reality as timing). Reality is a conscious hologram that creates our "realities" with the belief that it is real. Physical Reality is based on duality (electromagnetic energy) seeking balance but our very nature of our programming will not allow this to happen. The reason is so we can experience emotions. Which is the essence of our existence in this plain of our reality.

I for one cannot understand an existence outside of time. I have never been on a ride to explore that possibility. I am a math guy so everything to me has an order to it but that falls apart in that plain of existence and so does my fragile mind. Maybe one day I'll be able to take that journey.
 

vamp2syd

Well-known member
I do have a hard time putting in words what I am trying to explain so I did a search to see if there were any good videos out there explaining that past, present, and future occur at the same time. I was shocked by how many there were but this was the first one I just watched and it did a decent job of easily explaining it so I will not dig any further into the other videos. I do not like watching videos about stuff like this unless I have already managed to find myself in that way of thinking through meditation so it does not manipulate my beliefs... I'm not sure if that makes sense but to some of you out there you know what I am talking about.....

 
.
Top